The "Quran" is not protected.

The reminder (zhikr) is protected 159.

I believe that this actually means the reminder is MAINTAINED. That the God ensures that the message is always available to people and this may be in more forms than just the reading.

The text may become corrupted, but the essential message of monotheism and the last day is maintained.

Regards.

JK- Emmmm, excuse me truth. Dont you believe in code-19 any more and that RK WAS a messenger of GOD? Also dont you believe in a Book revealed by GOD to an Arabian Prophet named Muhammad with 114 suras and 6346 verses? GOD Bless!

What if all the stories were allegorical?

Would you cease to believe?

Regards.

JK- No but i believe GOD would have told us that Hes citing an allegory if they were to be so and He does that many times in the Quran too. In that case i would have accepted them as allegories with no problem. GOD Bless!

So earthquakes, volcanoes, and hurricanes are all miracles according to you even though they are commonplace?

I also do not require miracles to believe and echo Tay's sentiments in relation to life itself. The fact that there is anything at all - rather than nothing is to me the only "miracle".

Regards.

JK- Well in a way their systematic setup is as is also the complexity of life. But perhaps the complete definiton should have been "an extraordinary event which appears suddenly in order to refresh ones belief in a supernatural creator which at the same time is too powerful for a human or a collection of humans to perform at that particular time period." GOD Bless!

peace

so Johnny K, if you believe that Jesus was born without a father, and you believe everything else in the story as actual occurance, then can you please provide me with some evidence. If its good enough, you might even buy it.

JK- 2130 mentions the big bang. People in the past reading the Quran would also have wanted to require evidence. Guess what? They got it now. So wait and see and in the future GW GOD would provide us with that evidence too. For now we have code-19 providing evidence that everything mentioned in the Quran is true. GOD Bless!

Salaams All,

Jonny said

?GOD helped His prophets many times by supernatural means?

And what are those?

Ahmed said

?Believers do need to believe in the past miracles the Quran told us about?

I don?t see any such things ,but there is a lot of mistranslations in it though.

You can point them out for me though.

Gods Blessings.

JK- Sure.
An example has been set for you by the two armies who clashed - one army was fighting in the cause of GOD, while the other was disbelieving. They saw with their own eyes that they were twice as many. GOD supports with His victory whomever He wills. This should provide an assurance for those who possess vision.
Thus, when you implored your Lord to come to the rescue, He responded to you "I am supporting you with one thousand angels in succession."
You told the believers, "Is it not enough that your Lord supports you with three thousand angels, sent down?"
Indeed, if you steadfastly persevere and maintain righteousness, then they attack you suddenly, your Lord will support you with five thousand angels, well trained.
GOD Bless!

I'm not sure if I'm not explaining myself well, or if you are only seeing what you want to see. I don't want to make assumptions so I'll do my best to clarify again.

You stated

now any stories you hear from any one "God or Not" while you did not see it is Ghayb

This is not true. The reason I was asking for the definition of "min", was to emphasize that the story is from the unseen. The story itself is not unseen.

Do you understand the difference?

I can say a man is from Africa.
I can't say a man is Africa.

To my understanding, the only concepts described as unseen in substance include the malaikat, the jinn, iblis, and of course Allah.

I hope my position has become clear.

bro, it is not me who did classify it, it is Allah in His Quran explicitly and also the common sense suggest that if you don't see it then you don't really know it untill you see

Allah said the story is from the unseen. You are saying if one doesn't believe in the virgin birth, then one is disbelieving in the unseen.

These are 2 completely different concepts Ahmed.

We spent an entire thread discussing whether or not the virgin birth is even mentioned in the Qur'an, and you failed in proving your assertion. The Qur'an does not explicitly say what you suggest. It is only through your interpretation that you've reached this conclusion. My interpretation has led me elsewhere.

That is why I'd rather agree to disagree on this fine point rather than spend the rest of our lives debating it.

Can you respect that?

I have no problem with that bro, in fact believing in Mohammad or other prophets is 100% believing in the UNSEEN

ok

I stated

So, where does that leave us, brother?
Back to square one.

And you replied

absolutely not bro, it will leave us at BELIEVING IN THE UNSEEN, as we were told in 23 and zillions of other loctions, and this is what will defferentiate a true believer from a confused believer (who thinks he/she is a believer)

so if we consider Most of the content in the Quran is unseen, then all we need is to believe in it AS NOT HEARSAY because it is by our God and not by a human

Do you see what I mean about not replying line by line and reading the whole thread first?

You've pulled my comment out of context and wasted precious energy responding to a point that I never even made.

Here's why it brings us back to square one

I believe in every word of the Qur'an, and I believe in the unseen. But I do not interpret the words the same way you do.

Now, do you recall the thread called "virgin myth", where we spent a good deal of time debating our interpretations? If you do, then think about how far we've come in our dialogue, only to end up back in the same place - and that is, we interpret the verses differently...in other words back to square one.

You stated

I agree that you are free to interpet it the way you want in fact I believe the Quran mentioned the people who do that

Why not just come out and call me what you want to call me rather than disguise it?

I don't agree that I interpet it my way, I DID NOT DO IT MY WAY, it is what the clear arabic text suggest in the Quran

OK. And that's your interpretation!!!!

Get it?

http//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=interpretation
in?ter?pre?ta?tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-t?rpr-tshn)
n.
The act or process of explaining the meaning of something.

In a nutshell, you interpret the "clear arabic text" to mean that Maryam gave birth without a father. I interpret the "clear arabic text" to mean otherwise.

Can we agree to disagree now?

Peace,
Tay

Thanks for the info. I happen to agree.
So, the story is being recited from the unseen. It can only be this way, since the events did actually happen, right? I mean, there were real witnesses who did see Maryam. For them it was seen, not unseen.

Peace bro

No woprries bro, we only looking for the truth for all of us with no credit to anyone but all of us, yes anything happens and no one saw but was heard, it has to be classified as hearsay, that is the general law at courts, but the point is what is said is not by a human rather by our God, hence it can not be hearsay from our perspective

Now, we've already agreed to disgree on what the story actually means. But we both recognize where the story is from - al-ghaybi.

the point of agreeing to disgree is only when we both reach dead end, and I don't think we did yet, I learnt a lot myself while putting these comments to you, so it should be good for both of us,

now any stories you hear from any one "God or Not" while you did not see it is Ghayb

Conclusion if you're going to classify the story of Maryam as "unseen",

bro, it is not me who did classify it, it is Allah in His Quran explicitly and also the common sense suggest that if you don't see it then you don't really know it untill you see

then you must apply the same to every single word of the Qur'an, since it all comes from the "unseen", and none of us have ever seen any of the events that took place.

I have no problem with that bro, in fact believing in Mohammad or other prophets is 100% believing in the UNSEEN

So, where does that leave us, brother?
Back to square one.

absolutely not bro, it will leave us at BELIEVING IN THE UNSEEN, as we were told in 23 and zillions of other loctions, and this is what will defferentiate a true believer from a confused believer (who thinks he/she is a believer)

so if we consider Most of the content in the Quran is unseen, then all we need is to believe in it AS NOT HEARSAY because it is by our God and not by a human

I believe in every word of the Qur'an, and I believe in the unseen. But I do not interpret the words the same way you do.

Agreed?

I agree that you are free to interpet it the way you want in fact I believe the Quran mentioned the people who do that, obvioulsy you admitted that you intepet it your way, but I don't agree that I interpet it my way, I DID NOT DO IT MY WAY, it is what the clear arabic text suggest in the Quran as said by our God who ordered us to believe in the unseen, then He gave us many exmaples of those unseen and told us that people saw it as well, in fact He also told us to travel around and see the signs of those unseen people before us, like Pharaoh and the pyramids or gommorah/sodom cities for example

He also told us about things that was unseen for some till a point where it was seen, surat Al Rum, the battle of Byzantine which for those before it was unseen, then it is seen by the ones at the time of the event then for me and you it is unseen

Peace,
Tay

Salam man

Thanks for the info. I happen to agree.
So, the story is being recited from the unseen. It can only be this way, since the events did actually happen, right? I mean, there were real witnesses who did see Maryam. For them it was seen, not unseen.

Now, we've already agreed to disgree on what the story actually means. But we both recognize where the story is from - al-ghaybi.

Conclusion if you're going to classify the story of Maryam as "unseen", then you must apply the same to every single word of the Qur'an, since it all comes from the "unseen", and none of us have ever seen any of the events that took place.

So, where does that leave us, brother?
Back to square one.

I believe in every word of the Qur'an, and I believe in the unseen. But I do not interpret the words the same way you do.

Agreed?

Peace,
Tay

Doesn't "min" mean from?

Absolutely, and that is why i added tyhe word SOME OF = MIN = FROM

ie,

this is some of the unseen news

or

this is from the unseen news

a native arabic speaker will understand it on the spot, while it may sound odd to a non arabic speaker

the Quran used this style of Min a lot because it is popular in the common arabic language, check 28, Min Al Nas = Some of the Poeple = From the People

In effect it means, Allah didn't disclose oll the stories of the Ghaib "that they didn't know it or see it

Peace

Doesn't "min" mean from?

Please translate this for me

Thalika min anba-i alghaybi

Peace tay

The exact translation should be

This is some of the Unseen News

But it also means

This is some of the Unseen Stories

Remeber Tay, it is not stories as human stories because God does not tell us stories unless it happened or will happen, He is not like us
that is why this unseen news was part of the Wahi sent to Mohammad and we must believe in it if we want to call ourselves believers in the Unseen,

I may ask, What is your point that you believe in the verses which talk about miracles in the Quran ?, do you mean that it is Allah words and that's all? if that is the case, then what these words mean to you exactly.

please don't tell me guidance because i already know that and you and me can easily see the "do" and "do not" in it. i mean in addition to guidance regarding the parts that have no guidance and are nothing but statements of facts by Allah?

Peace bro

Please translate this for me

Thalika min anba-i alghaybi nooheehi

I have it as
That (is) from the unseen's information

Hi all,

Hello bro JK

It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

Whats with the language obsession here?

Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

Peace!

Oh please sister
I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"
I will give you an exampe dear sister
i can say
I love my car
and i can also say
I love my red car
the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means
I love my car
Hence in my quran comment
if I say it like this
because of its content
or if I say like this
because of it arabic content
both commets means
because of its content
Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car
got it sister?

Dont blame me for misunderstanding ur statement coz u sure didnt put it clear enough. Ur statement that u made earlier, meant to say, 'we dont need code 19 to believe that Quran is a true book of Allah but the fact that it is in Arabic, is proof enough''.
Thats why I spoke against that idea.

Anyways, Peace! I understand u didnt mean any specialness in 'arabic' as such. It just wasnt well said.

Peace!

lol

ok sister no worries

peace

Hi all,

Hello bro JK

It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

Whats with the language obsession here?

Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

Peace!

Oh please sister
I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"
I will give you an exampe dear sister
i can say
I love my car
and i can also say
I love my red car
the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means
I love my car
Hence in my quran comment
if I say it like this
because of its content
or if I say like this
because of it arabic content
both commets means
because of its content
Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car
got it sister?

Dont blame me for misunderstanding ur statement ) coz u sure didnt put it clear enough. Ur statement that u made earlier, meant to say, 'we dont need code 19 to believe that Quran is a true book of Allah but the fact that it is in Arabic, is proof enough''.
Thats why I spoke against that idea.

Anyways, Peace! I understand u didnt mean any specialness in 'arabic' as such. It just wasnt well said.

Peace!

Hello bro JK

It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

Whats with the language obsession here?

Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

Peace!

Oh please sister

I thought you are smarter than this to understand what i meant by the Arabic Quran "No offence here sister"

I will give you an exampe dear sister

i can say

I love my car

and i can also say

I love my red car

the second means i'm just being specific however both comments means

I love my car

Hence in my quran comment

if I say it like this

because of its content

or if I say like this

because of it arabic content

both commets means

because of its content

Arabic is an adjective like the color red that describe my car

got it sister?

peace be with you

Hello bro JK

It seems to me that you are well set on the understanding that the Quran has been proven the true book of Allah because of code 19?

I'm sorry bro this can't be true because simply code 19 was discovered 1400 years after Islam, this means all those generations didn't have an assurance that it is the true words of Allah

The only assurance bro is the Arabic content in it

Quran is a true book from Allah becoz it has arabic content in it? shock

Yeah, Like Truth said, what if God had sent the message in chinese or in french or even english, will it not be a true book from God?

Whats with the language obsession here?

Arabic is just another language.
God is capable of conveying his message clearly in any language.

Peace!

Peace Ahmed,

I sometimes wonder if you would believe the message if it was in Chinese. You seem to really be hung up on the Arabic.

Regards.

Peace Bro Oben

will, i donlyt really know bro because I'm sure it will also depends on how Allah will guide anyone depending on his sincerety and non arrorgance , because Allah does not like the arrogant as written in the Arabic Quran, as i guess it would be written also in the Chinease Quran if it was sent in Chinease

Peace

just my 2c...

Your 2c really has a lot of spending power hasn't it?

It certainly goes a long way )

Regards.

lol

Bro I thought the 2c comments are a METAPHORE to cheap comments wink

cheers

Jonny said

?GOD helped His prophets many times by supernatural means?

And what are those?

Ahmed said

?Believers do need to believe in the past miracles the Quran told us about?

I don?t see any such things ,but there is a lot of mistranslations in it though.

You can point them out for me though.

Gods Blessings.

What if all the stories were allegorical?

Would you cease to believe?

Regards.

The "Quran" is not protected.

The reminder (zhikr) is protected 159.

I believe that this actually means the reminder is MAINTAINED. That the God ensures that the message is always available to people and this may be in more forms than just the reading.

The text may become corrupted, but the essential message of monotheism and the last day is maintained.

Regards.

Peace Ahmed,

I sometimes wonder if you would believe the message if it was in Chinese. You seem to really be hung up on the Arabic.

Regards.

just my 2c...

Your 2c really has a lot of spending power hasn't it?

It certainly goes a long way )

Regards.

A miracle is something which is too powerful for a human or a collection of humans to do at any particular time period.

So earthquakes, volcanoes, and hurricanes are all miracles according to you even though they are commonplace?

I also do not require miracles to believe and echo Tay's sentiments in relation to life itself. The fact that there is anything at all - rather than nothing is to me the only "miracle".

Regards.