http//www.muslim-refusenik.com/
http//www.freethoughtmecca.org/

Free thought claims to be based on rationality, is provably irrational. Unfortunately, thanks to Shiasm and Sunnism, Islam is mis-quoted and misunderstood everywhere. Irshad (refusnik) is right in refuting Shiasm and Sunnism. Unfortunately, she does not know Deen-e-Islam. It is not her fault in a way. She is merely criticizing what she sees. We are also criticizing the 'isms' in Islam.

Freethoughtmecca.org had an interesting logic problem posted here

http//www.geocities.com/freethoughtmecca/quranlogic.html/

Unfortunately, his logic is flawed in the analysis of 482. For those who have read his analysis, here is his flaw.

From his website
"So, this means that the verse is putting forth a proposition that is logically equivalent to saying "if the Qur'an does not have any errors, it is from Allaah." That is a statement that is demonstrably false. I could easily present a text that is both free of error and not of a divine origin (exempli gratia a phone directory). The Muslims might argue that we are not discussing phone directories, and put forth some special pleading on behalf of the Qur'an, but that too is fallacious"

The problem is "I could easily present a text that is both free of error and not of divine origin..".

What is the connecting transition from "If the Quran does not have any errors, it is from Allah" to "This statement is false".

Define false. Logically false? It is only one statement. It does not contradict itself. Rationally unverifiable? This he does not show.

While giving the example of a phone book, he keeps the following statement in mind "If ANY text does not have any error, that text is from Allah". The example of a phone disproves the above 'any text' statement, not the actual Quranic statement that talks about itself.

Quranic verse is talking about Quran itself. Freethoughts dude went from a specific to a general with no llogical connection. As far as logic is concerned, from a simple If-then statement, you can only conclude the contropositive and nothing more. He introduced a variable 'phone book' that does not belong to the statement being criticized. His generality is not derivable from the Quranic statement.

Both Irshad and freethoughts dude are finding contradictions in sunnism and shiasm. Both rely on hadith-based faith. In retrospect, looking at the positive side, they are also doing a favor to Islam (real), which is taken synonymously with widely-accepted islam (hadith based). Furthermore, by raising those concerns, they allow us to disprove them, hence, adding to the strength of Islam.

I guess Im an optimist. D