salams

You can buy the book from many places, e.g. amazon. About $25 US. I strongly recommend it.

Most of your questions have been answered in the summary, but I will briefly go through them...

hmm so like from the prophets death till 193yrs later noone really followed hadith??

Yes, some would have followed hadith (Muhammad's, his companions, early caliphs etc.) BUT it was not an established rule that Muhammad's hadith were in some way divine, supercedes others or obligatory etc. This idea was only formulated later.

I wonder did hadiths exist in the time when the prophet Muhammad was alive?

Perhaps, but only in very small personal collections. More so in oral form, rather than script. Please remember, the traditional history states that the Quran itself was recorded onto bits of animal skin, leaves, stones etc. spread all over, almost in a haphazard manner, so do you really think people had nice little hadith collections sitting in their home! Not that I believe the traditional accounts, I'm just saying what they say.

Like the companions would orally recall things the prophet said?

No doubt they did, but making a leap to to say the way Muhammad did it is the only way to do it or compulsory/obligatory is a different matter entirely, if its outwith the sphere of revelation. If they recalled what Muhammad said with respect to an ayat of 'al quran' then fair enough.

but did the prophet ever approve of any recordings? according to hadiths.. when were hadiths first written..

The process of hadith transmission was primarily oral, at least through the first century. Even after written collections of hadith were compiled, oral transmission remained the ideal (p8. Abu Rayya argues that the late date when traditions began to be registered in written form more than 100 years after the Prophet's death became a major obstacle to the fidelity of hadith (p89). Emerged in final form only in the 3rd and 4th centuries. Transmitted in the oral form at least until the 2nd century. Both classical and deniers of hadith claim this. By the time the traditions were gathered into the collections during the 3rd century, the corpus of hadith was damaged beyond any reasonable hope of restoration. Parwez draws parallels between this situation and the alledged corruption of the Gospels. If Muslims distrust the Gospels which were recorded within a 100 years of Jesus' death, how much more should they distrust hadith? (p90)

Wakas

arnoldyasin ? thank u for the links with the first link I didn?t actually get to read all of it though I read chapter 3 http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/mh/mh.htm i found it a good resource though it didn?t really have much in relation to hadiths used today (Well so I think) like in relation to bukhari and sahih

and the second link I didn?t fully read S im so lazy sorry.. anyhow its good as it criticizes hadiths

leyla ? thanks for the link I was just reading I think I found what I wanted ?Shafi was born in 204 AH (193 years after Prophet Muhammad's death). He was the first to argue the Prophet's sunna as a source of law, identified to authentic prophetic hadith, and give it an equal footing to The Quran?? hmm so like from the prophets death till 193yrs later noone really followed hadith??
sounds like an interesting book, got any ideas where I can buy it from?

I wonder did hadiths exist in the time when the prophet Muhammad was alive? Like the companions would orally recall things the prophet said? but did the prophet ever approve of any recordings? according to hadiths.. when were hadiths first written..

Thenabi ? Joe ive been reading the link http//www.e-bacaan.com/artikeli_FinalD0.htm though i skip through it a bit so I realized I should prob read it start to finish its got some interesting proofs reinforced

Yes wakes I was reading it on a link leyla gave me thanks for that, do u know where I can buy it from?

ik75243 "because we live in a world where stubborn-ness beats logic" actually we live in a world of ignorance where people do what they think is right only because thats what they are told or thats what they hear.they just follow blindly...

Inshallah when i have time ill read the links into detail
jazak allahu kheirun
thank u so much for the links
salam

nah ive heard if a girl commits adultry she gets stonned if a guy does he gets lashed.

Well, today I discussed this issue with a friend of mine who is shia, and we started to argue, most because he didn't want to accept that Quran already has mention lashes as punishments for adultery. It's so annoying to talk with them who don't want to open their eyes.

Peace Maria

Anyways, I wrote a summary of the following book as I thought it was excellent
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm

I strongly recommend it.

No. no it doesnt.

A question.. when were hadiths introduced/created/made/published? pass on ur info, ur sites anything relevent..

ive been just reading things about women in hadith.. i just find them dehumanising.. its sad anyway

pass on the info please

thanks for ur time
asalamu alaikum

Couldn't agree more, sister ..

To me, the period in time in which the so-called 'mutazilah' were pervasive in Pan-Arab consciousness were the times when al-quraan really did have an influence in Pan-Arab life. After that, when the Abbasid caliphs became degenerate, the superficiality-facilitating hadith became institutionalised. This is only my opinion for discussions sake.

This sounds correct. My research and observation says the same.

These booklets helped to turn me away from the belief that ahadeeth were a necessary source for the deen.

http//www.e-bacaan.com/artikeli_FinalD0.htm

Joe

Don?t stay too long looking at darkness. LIGHT is more beautiful. We are born to discover the LIGHT.

peace,

ur so kidding!

nah ive heard if a girl commits adultry she gets stonned if a guy does he gets lashed. if a wife doesnt listen to her husbands sexual need then the angels curse her till morning, or in another hadith untill he forgives her. blood doesnt nullify prayer but menstruation does. girls r dumber n weaker "deficient in intelligence and religion" and that the women is a toy and all sorts of ...... anyway

Thanks all for the links barek Allah fikon inshallah i'll check them out

Asalamu alaikum

A question.. when were hadiths introduced/created/made/published? pass on ur info, ur sites anything relevent..

ive been just reading things about women in hadith.. i just find them dehumanising.. its sad anyway

pass on the info please

thanks for ur time
asalamu alaikum

Have you read that the woman should lick the infected wound of her husband?

I think its waste of time to know when and where they come from. Chinese wispers are just chinese wispers and thats all.

Peace

Reading the book "Rethinking tradition in modern Islamic thought" by Daniel Brown could be helpful to you, I think.
Read it critical, though.
It is a had?th of its own kind.

There is a good summary of the main points of that book on the free-minds site

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/rethink.htm

Regards,

Leyla

Read this book, it was one of the best i ever read, it gives answers to almost everything

http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/mh/mh.htm

And also this one, then you have a good understanding of it all

http//www.beacon2005.com/Criminals.pdf

SarahA question.. when were hadiths introduced/created/made/published? pass on ur info, ur sites anything relevent..

In approaching this question, we must be careful not to mistake that this isn't about ad-deen, i.e. we cannot understand al-quraan through this exercise, but rather an academic question.

To me, the period in time in which the so-called 'mutazilah' were pervasive in Pan-Arab consciousness were the times when al-quraan really did have an influence in Pan-Arab life. After that, when the Abbasid caliphs became degenerate, the superficiality-facilitating hadith became institutionalised. This is only my opinion for discussions sake.