In Islamic jargon rak&at means a unit of prayer. In pure Classical Arabic it just means 'a bowing' or 'a kneeling.' So firstly Muslims have taken this word beyond what it really means as whenever someone bows once or kneels once this is a rak&at. Thirdly now the word is not in the Quran. However the Quran says Arak&oo which means to bow or to kneel and this it (aatoo azakaata wa-arka&oo ma&a ar-raaki&eena). So all you need to do is bow or kneel and you pray and pray to GOD and you are all good. There is no need for units of prayer and such things. If you want to do this it is on you but this does not make your prayer any more proper than a Christian or a Jew who kneels or bows down and prays to the god of Abraham; God.

Godbless,
Anwar

May God Guide.

I totally agree with you, Zidane!

"If the carpenters know it's a stool what they are making, they still wont be able to make it unless they know why it's for, because there is not just one". I read this or something like that in a story years and years ago.

The quraan is complete.
The quraan did not explain the way we should pray or what we should say.
The quraan did not give a number for rak3ats, or even mentioned rak3ats

BUT,

it showed what is not salaat
when to perform salaat (time)
When not to perfrom salaat (why)
what effect the salaat is expected to have on the quality of our lives

Fix the purpose of salaat. Whatever helps you achieve that end at a 100% success is your salaat

I feel that salaat is up to the person. That's why the subject (to an extent) is left wide open in al-quran. So the number of rakats don't matter. Setting the number of rakats also turns into a ritual where people just pray for the sake of it. And the purpose of salat is completely lost. If one rakat works for you fine... if 3 work for you fine. If a non-physical salat works for you... fine. Whatever works for, I say.

The method is not important at all, the purpose is. Which is to help us become better individuals by avoiding evil and vice, and thus protecting us from 'the dark side of the force'.

Well if we look at how muslims ended up praying there are certain observations. If we were to assume there was additions made, then the concept of praying silent was always strange. Now we know the first 2 raika'ats of fajr, maghrib and Isha are said loudly. The whole zuhr and asr are said silently. This means that the 3 prayers I mentioned are all said aloud. The fajr, isha and maghrib. Plus the loud ones are always the first 2 rika'at.So maybe its better to focus on the 2 raika'at said aloud if you are going to pray according to Koran. Fajr, maghrib and isha, each 2 rika'at, the one that people pray aloud.

Now Samia you said the decline of the sun to the darknes of the night is talking about Isha. However does not the verses say "to" the darkness of the night. Meaning its a time scale between sunset to darkness. The fajr is mentioned since its known and Isha is mentioned since its known, its the maghrib that needs clarifying. Everybody can knopw ehen is dawn and when is night, so to calrify maghrib, it had to be explained that its between sunset and darkness. This then explains Isha is from the darkness of the night.

I think people are going to have differences in these timings no matter what, since its all in how you understand the verses.

I feel that salaat is up to the person. That's why the subject (to an extent) is left wide open in al-quran. So the number of rakats don't matter. Setting the number of rakats also turns into a ritual where people just pray for the sake of it. And the purpose of salat is completely lost. If one rakat works for you fine... if 3 work for you fine. If a non-physical salat works for you... fine. Whatever works for, I say.

The method is not important at all, the purpose is. Which is to help us become better individuals by avoiding evil and vice, and thus protecting us from 'the dark side of the force'.

Since I verified that there is God, then I verified that this Quran is the message of God,

• I don't see the word raka'a that is used to mean "set" (or the number of it) for the "ritual prayer" anywhere in the Quran yet

• I don't see the definition of how to do a raka'a or ritual prayer set anywhere in the Quran yet.

• Since the Quran is complete, I don't think it exists in this Submission System.

Therefore, I wouldn't guess or confirm the existence of the number of ritual prayers' "rakaats" in the Quran.

I understand "salat" in the quran as bond/connection. There are many aspects of doing this across the Quran, and we must uphold it - aqemoussalat (follow God's command closely). Praising and glorifying is just a part of it.

You can see this discussed throughout the forum and

• http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/disproved_salatequalsprayer.htm
• http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/slw.htm
• This goes along well with the word's occurance, especially 2945 - it does protect from evil and rememberance of God makes you revere Him so you do things with purpose of serving Him. I see many people do "ritual prayer" but then tell lies, commit adultery, behave bad to their parents. Therefore, I don't see that "ritual prayer" protects from evil. (I saw "Saddam" doing "ritual prayer" on TV also.)

May God Guide.

Brother Alen, bravo it's very nice to see you trying to tell them that the Quran is truly complete - (this fact is well-explained at the start of the scarf article at http//www.free-minds.org/women/scarf.htm). Many, like myself, were once like them before and feel pity for them now. I thank God that we see more of the truth. All praise be to God.
yes

Since it's NOT there, then

733 Say "My Lord has forbidden all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle, and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know."

Therefore, let's NOT say about God what we do not know.

May God Guide.

Maybe the rika'a is 2. Since its the lowest number.

What I wnat to know is what about shaf' and witr and the the ten nights.

089.001
YUSUFALI By the break of Day
PICKTHAL By the Dawn
SHAKIR I swear by the daybreak,

089.002
YUSUFALI By the Nights twice five;
PICKTHAL And ten nights,
SHAKIR And the ten nights,

089.003
YUSUFALI By the even and odd (contrasted);
PICKTHAL And the Even and the Odd,
SHAKIR And the even and the odd,

089.004
YUSUFALI And by the Night when it passeth away;-
PICKTHAL And the night when it departeth,
SHAKIR And the night when it departs

Brother Alen, bravo it's very nice to see you trying to tell them that the Quran is truly complete - (this fact is well-explained at the start of the scarf article at http//www.free-minds.org/women/scarf.htm). Many, like myself, were once like them before and feel pity for them now. I thank God that we see more of the truth. All praise be to God.

The word "rak3a" or "rakaat" does not exist in the qur'aan

sun

yes

Since it's NOT there, then

733 Say "My Lord has forbidden all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle, and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know."

Therefore, let's NOT say about God what we do not know.

May God Guide.

sun

I know, i have been trying to tell that to sunnis but they keep running to the sunna and hadith for "answers" and they always have prepared at least dosen hadith which make The Quran like it is incomplete.

When i tell them that The Quran is complete, they agree, but then add that only the scholars understand Islam better then me so therefore the conversation ends with me being marked as the disbeliever. They tell me that i believe in half the message (The Quran) but not the other half (sunna and hadith) and therefore i'm called a kaffir by them.

I don't care nor mind, because i know and see the Truth.
AlhamdilAllah.
AlhamdilAllah.

Peace.

Peace,

Ask them of the scholars' views on biology. This is where most of these false people are exposed to the core, their ignorance is proven when they show themselves to be creationists, usually young earth.

Salam.

I know, i have been trying to tell that to sunnis but they keep running to the sunna and hadith for "answers" and they always have prepared at least dosen hadith which make The Quran like it is incomplete.

When i tell them that The Quran is complete, they agree, but then add that only the scholars understand Islam better then me so therefore the conversation ends with me being marked as the disbeliever. They tell me that i believe in half the message (The Quran) but not the other half (sunna and hadith) and therefore i'm called a kaffir by them.

I don't care nor mind, because i know and see the Truth.
AlhamdilAllah.
AlhamdilAllah.

Peace.

Exactly, that's what i have been telling them, the prayer must first and foremost be sincere, it must come from your heart and not just your tongue. You have to believe in what you are saying and be honest and sincere and true at it.

Thanks.

Peace.

Peace
Al

======================
1 O LORD, our Lord,
how majestic is your name in all the earth!
You have set your glory
above the heavens.

2 From the lips of children and infants
you have ordained praise
because of your enemies,
to silence the foe and the avenger.

3 When I consider your heavens,
the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars,
which you have set in place,

4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?

5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.

6 You made him ruler over the works of your hands;
you put everything under his feet

7 all flocks and herds,
and the beasts of the field,

8 the birds of the air,
and the fish of the sea,
all that swim the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD, our Lord,
how majestic is your name in all the earth!