I am here! Drum rolls please..
-
Peace All,
Name sikes (short version of my real name).
Location little old Sri Lanka, Big old planet earth.
Intro My story is not extraordinary or anything, but felt I needed to make an entrance with a big bang KABOOM ;D.
Birth Born to a muslim family (sunni by definition, although we weren't aware) - and you thought I'll give out my b'day .
Religious practices believed in the 5 pillars, hadeeth was a 2nd source of religion and all the other prophesies etc etc etc.
Upbringing Brought up somewhat traditionally, no short skirts or the like, but no head cover either, oh and men ARE from mars and women ARE from venus, know the difference and stay away!
I am here (ta daa) as a result of my quest to find a punishment for not wearing the hijab as defined by the Quran.
and now for the details
Deep deep deep... down I must have believed that anything not found in the Quran cannot be justified by the hadeeth, cos I used to question a lot of things once upon a time too, some out loud, some to my self, anyways my quest brought me to submission.org and then I moved on to other sites promoting God Alone. It has been quite progressive MA.Parents My parents always gave priority to common sense, still do, in my opinion they were God Alone, yet was not at a position to totally reject hadeeth as I have. My mom still believes to some extent that hadeeth plays an important role, although she is of two minds, my dad if he was alive right now, would in all probability reject hadeeth totally. What I am trying to say is that some people are subconsciously God Alone, yet don't realise it etc.
Background info on Islam in SL
Well what can I say, mish-mash of a lot of things, majority is sunni, although most people don't realise, and we do have shia as well. Among these 2 groups we have plenty of other baby groups thabligh, thawheed, naksha-bandi, ahamadi, jamath, people who pray to/for saints and God knows what else. And for the most part they all find something wrong with each other (go figure).We have a "grand" mosque that plays havoc and people who don't agree with the mosque, but won't do anything about it. We have a school curriculum that teaches more hadeeths than Quran but no honest effort to teach people arabic.
There was a sudden surge in the number of hijab wearing, beard growing people after many went to the mid-east for jobs, and now we have lot's and lot's and lot's of "religious" people. As a result a muslim is judged by how long his beard is, or how well she has covered herself or how dark the mark on the person?s forehead is (generally speaking) also applicable to the level of knowledge they have on religion too. By all their standards, my mom and mostly meself are destined to go to hell ( whatever dude..), and as far as knowledge is concerned, the very idea of someone like me talking religion is hilarious if not blasphemous (mind you I don't claim to know a lot, and may God help me in acquiring it). Oh well life goes on.. yay la di da. Point to note these are observations and should not be taken as offences, and although I generalised I do know that all are not the same..
Latest news
(1). My mom at times thinks I am a religious nut because I challenge a lot of her theories with the Quran. The general rule of thumb for muslims in SL is a girl/woman is either under the care of her parent/s or her husband, we are not an independent, individual entity that can think and act for ourselves - yeah right, as if. But of course she's not all that bad, cool person really she also thinks I am nuts and psychotic for other reasons (..ahem).
(2). A colleague of mine at work said that I am following the path of Shaitan because I have discarded hadeeth as a source of religion and that she was concerned for me and felt very sad for me (aww poor puppy pooh). My response "Yipeee! and don't bother! >" I think that and the fact that I was refuting all her arguments really pissed her off (what? was it something I said? confused )So sikes, wasap with you now?
Well as all of you know quite well, there?s a lot to learn (infact "lot" would be an understatement), and one of the projects I am hoping to undertake (with God's help) is to translate the Quran meself (ambitious task, I know), I feel that would be more easier and interesting instead of comparing and contrasting translations imho. So with this intro I also have a request and a question.-request do you know of anyplace I can purchase the E.W Lane Arabic-English lexicon for somewhat of a cheaper price, I know there is a site that gives it for free on DVD, but I prefer the hard copy. Amazon is selling for $450 (8 volume)and about $165 (2 volume condensed version), a bit too high by my standards.
-question my knowledge on arabic is below nil, so this question might sound a bit naive. Are there great many differences between the usages of words in classical and modern arabic? If there are, would the differences still matter, i.e., since the Quran is universal and stands the test of time, shouldn't it also stand the test of language evolution? (ok so it was 2 questions)
Yup so I think that's about it from my end, Ok will stop rambling now Hope to catch you guys again soon! And I leave you with these words "May God almighty be with us and guide us now and always AND not make us arrogant with the knowledge we acquire!"
Oh and keep up the good work with the forum, all of you, umma! -*
Peace,
sikes -
Peace Sikes
Welcome to the forum.
I'm not sure if there are cheaper prices for Lanes Lexicon. I bought mine for around 250. There was someone on the forum selling another (arabic) lexicon I believe. I'm not sure about the details of that situation. I'd suggest if you really want it and can only get it at the aforementioned prices start saving up.
Joe
-
Peace Sikes,
Welcome to the forum welcome
Thank you for sharing your story with us. May The God guide us all to the straight path.
-
peace skies,
Nice intro.
Wlcome to the forum.
If you can get LL the condensed 2 book version for $165 then its unlikely you'll get it cheaper than that. Did you get the prices the other way round? $165 is cheap for the 2 book version. I've seen it and it is very nicely done.
If you are unfamiliar with Arabic then using the hardcopy of LL would be quite slow. Project Root List (http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm) has organised nearly all the roots in The Quran, linking them to LL, which is much much faster. Also, it gives every occurrence of the root which is crucial for any quality study, and is currently building up the grammar info for every single word, which will be handy too.
If you still definitely want a hardcopy, see the following thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10416.msg53239#msg53239Wakas
-
Peace All
Thank you all for the welcome and the drums (+ cymbals) ;D
I have been checking out http//www.studyquran.co.uk, really neat site, and I should get the 2 book version, hopefully I can get some of my funds released
To Wakas I checked out the thread you have posted, the following links that were in the thread seems to be broken
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3870
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3982Anyways, thanks for the info all catch ya later..
Peace,
sikes -
Sikes, Allah-u-Abha!
It's so sad that so many people won't even acknowledge those who are anti-hadith as Muslims, although they believe in the Qur'an and follow its laws. I'm glad that you yourself have taken that step to read the Qur'an with undiscriminating eyes for truth without superstitions and false additions.
I also support people reading the Qur'an in the language of the people. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who haven't even read a translation of the Qur'an in their own language. They will memorise chapters in Arabic to chant it, but their wisdom gained from it sometimes can be quite low...
I'm sure Lord Muhammad would be grieving in the afterlife for people changing and adding words to God's Testament, but that is the way of human imperfection, no?
"And this is a Scripture that We have sent down which is blessed, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy."
6155, The Message.God is the Most Glorious,
Kevyn. -
Peace Kevyn,
Agreed bro
I also support people reading the Qur'an in the language of the people. You'd be surprised at the amount of people who haven't even read a translation of the Qur'an in their own language. They will memorise chapters in Arabic to chant it, but their wisdom gained from it sometimes can be quite low...
Trust me I know what you mean, I've experienced it first hand )
I agree with what you say about translations but I must add that although translations (despite everything else it contains besides God's word) does open up a world of opportunity for people who don't speak arabic, it's still not able to deliver the full message of the Quran, which is very unfair imho.
I've also come across plenty of people who uphold the translation itself to be divine..
Arabic, imo should be made a universal language like English (at least where muslims are concerned), maybe the time has come to do so. Hey if people can take the pains to learn a buncha scribbles and chant an arabic version of "abra-ka-dabra", they can certainly learn the language. I think the jews have it right, if I am not mistaken all of them are quite conversant in hebrew..
Peace
sikes -
Sikes, Allah-u-Abha! (God is the Most Glorious!)
Peace Kevyn,
Agreed bro
Trust me I know what you mean, I've experienced it first hand
Do tell!
I agree with what you say about translations but I must add that although translations (despite everything else it contains besides God's word) does open up a world of opportunity for people who don't speak arabic, it's still not able to deliver the full message of the Quran, which is very unfair imho.
I've also come across plenty of people who uphold the translation itself to be divine..
Yes, I do agree that it is not the same as the original. If I wanted to read the originals of Lord Baha'u'llah's Writings, I would have to learn both Farsi/Parsi/Persian (I somehow don't like calling it Persian) and Arabic. But if Lord Baha'u'llah were to be alive right now, He (we capitalise the Prophets of God because they were closer to God than we are) would tell me to learn Arabic... He really really loved the Arabic language!
I'm sure these "Divine Translation" people are akin to those KJV-onlyists that I've encountered during my Christian years. But as I truly believe that the Qur'an was made to be easy to understand, translations are thus then worthy of praise! It is why I appreciate things in the vernecular now... rather than be exotic with an exotic tongue, Communion with God should be in the most comfortable way that is natural to a person, language being one of them!
I also want to avoid the danger of Arabicentricism and bringing in a superiority complex with the Arabic language. One of the problems I had was the Arabicisation of countries thinking that it is part of Islam, when in reality, is only a cultural custom than of God.
Arabic, imo should be made a universal language like English (at least where muslims are concerned), maybe the time has come to do so. Hey if people can take the pains to learn a buncha scribbles and chant an arabic version of "abra-ka-dabra", they can certainly learn the language. I think the jews have it right, if I am not mistaken all of them are quite conversant in hebrew..
As well as the Catholics in Vatican City have their Latin speakers, lol. For Baha'is, we believe that we will translate all our Scriptures and Books into whatever international language the whole world adopts officially (Although Arabic, Farsi and English seem to be the most used in our religion). Chanting of prayers is usually done in the tongue of the people. Thus I chant in the languages that I know English, French, Spanish and Esperanto, lol.
God is the Most Glorious,
Kevyn. -
Peace Kevyn
Long post, brace yourself..
Do tell! )
Ooooh a bit of juicy news with a dash of conspiracy heh heh
Well let's see, I use to memorize ayathul kursi and manzil and something about laylathul Quadr and .. oh yes the Kalima and a bunch of other stuff I can?t remember..
Yes, I do agree that it is not the same as the original. If I wanted to read the originals of Lord Baha'u'llah's Writings, I would have to learn both Farsi/Parsi/Persian (I somehow don't like calling it Persian) and Arabic. But if Lord Baha'u'llah were to be alive right now, He (we capitalise the Prophets of God because they were closer to God than we are) would tell me to learn Arabic... He really really loved the Arabic language!
I'm sure these "Divine Translation" people are akin to those KJV-onlyists that I've encountered during my Christian years. But as I truly believe that the Qur'an was made to be easy to understand, translations are thus then worthy of praise!
Worthy y.e.s, but maybe not of praise ) At present translations do serve as a platform for us non-Arabic speakers, but I don?t think this trend should continue. As I understand the more translations we have the less people are inclined to study the original. I find that to be disturbing.. As followers of God Alone we like to say that following the prophet does not mean following Bukhari, muslim etc, likewise following the Quran does not mean following the translations of Yusuf Ali, Pikthal or even progressive Muslim (I don?t know much about the Bahai faith, so I can?t comment on what you?ve written about Lord Bha?u?llah?s writings). While translations may be helpful, we should reduce our level of dependancy on it.
Also ?easy to understand? does not necessarily mean having translations, translations themselves can be quite complex, considering the many versions we have out there.
Another interesting observation is God repeatedly reminds us in the Quran that it is a compilation in Arabic, it?s in clear Arabic tongue etc, not once, not twice but ELEVEN times. Why? This number of occurrences leads me to consider the possibility that Arabic as a language IS important for understanding God?s ?literal? word and that perhaps he wants us to use it as a starting point and then move on. Please note the word "literal". I don?t need to learn Arabic to understand any of God?s creations or signs, just the Quran, that?s it. Wishful thinking? M.a.y.b.e. I am all ears and eyes )
Yes I know a strong argument can be made saying language is not a barrier etc etc. I agree, but my thinking is different. No barrier will arise if the language was passed down with the book.
It is why I appreciate things in the vernecular now... rather than be exotic with an exotic tongue,
Aah you see, to me it is not about been exotic ;D but I guess that's a matter of perspective. Here is how I see it
- We inherit the Quran yet don't inherit the language
- We know the arabic alphabet but not the language
- We learn the mother tongue of the country we are born into but not the tongue of the religion we are born into
- We take an interest in learning a foreign language if we are planning a holiday somewhere, same applies if we were to emigrate, but we lack the same enthusiasm when it comes to religion
- Heck people even go to the extent of studying languages of ancient civilizations and they master it too in a few years!
The Quran is written in arabic, so why not learn the language? Why do we leave it to "others" to translate it for us?
Communion with God should be in the most comfortable way that is natural to a person, language being one of them!
Anything ? good or bad - can be comfortable and natural with enough exposure. Language is no exception ) Important clarification I don't need arabic to "talk" to God, or to "talk about" God, just need it to understand God's literal word, that's it (I am sounding like a broken record aren't I? heh heh)
Besides we all agree that translations fall short of the original of any piece of literature, in this case it?s God?s literal word. So, when push comes to shove, do we choose the best or the less?? Teacher or the student?
I also want to avoid the danger of Arabicentricism and bringing in a superiority complex with the Arabic language. One of the problems I had was the Arabicisation of countries thinking that it is part of Islam, when in reality, is only a cultural custom than of God.
Yes I agree, but "arabcentricism" will only be a problem if one allows it to be so. Please note I am NOT in anyway saying Arabic is part of religion, but it is an important tool just like any other scientific method. Let those who don?t see the distinction be, it?s their loss. I really don?t see a problem in adopting Arabic as my 4th language, so if some poor unfortunate arab comes over and tells me how his language is superior because I know it or cos God chose his language to deliver His final message, well? let?s just say that it won?t be long before he starts crying for his mommy rotfl
As well as the Catholics in Vatican City have their Latin speakers, lol. For Baha'is, we believe that we will translate all our Scriptures and Books into whatever international language the whole world adopts officially (Although Arabic, Farsi and English seem to be the most used in our religion).
Hmm.. so which method is easier? Creating translations according to a language life cycle, or learning the language? Not to mention the extensive ?change management? that should be employed..
Chanting of prayers is usually done in the tongue of the people. Thus I chant in the languages that I know English, French, Spanish and Esperanto, lol.
Oops cross connection ;D In SL most of the chanting is done in Arabic, thus the reference..
Peace
sikesP.S I didn?t get any input from anyone as to whether the Quran can withstand language evolution, eh is it because it?s a silly question? confused
-
Peace Kevyn
Long post, brace yourself..
Allah-u-Abha, my friend!
No kidding, lol.
Ooooh a bit of juicy news with a dash of conspiracy heh heh
Well let's see, I use to memorize ayathul kursi and manzil and something about laylathul Quadr and .. oh yes the Kalima and a bunch of other stuff I can?t remember..
LOL sounds like the alphabet song I learned from Yusuf Islam. "A is for Allah, nothing but Allah, BA is the beginning of Bismillah..."
Worthy y.e.s, but maybe not of praise ) At present translations do serve as a platform for us non-Arabic speakers, but I don?t think this trend should continue. As I understand the more translations we have the less people are inclined to study the original. I find that to be disturbing.. As followers of God Alone we like to say that following the prophet does not mean following Bukhari, muslim etc, likewise following the Quran does not mean following the translations of Yusuf Ali, Pikthal or even progressive Muslim (I don?t know much about the Bahai faith, so I can?t comment on what you?ve written about Lord Bha?u?llah?s writings). While translations may be helpful, we should reduce our level of dependancy on it.
Also ?easy to understand? does not necessarily mean having translations, translations themselves can be quite complex, considering the many versions we have out there.
I more or less agree with you. I've never thought about it that way, lol.
In the Baha'i Faith, one of the successors (Shoghi Effendi) before our House of Justice (Baha'i government) was in place, did many of the translations into archaic, KJV-style English (I'm not a favourer of archaic English for translations, but do not mind it for prayers or poetry), and because of his high station, these translations and the style is authoritatively used, and surprisingly, all translations into other languages in the world are based on the English translation. For example, the Short Obligatory Prayer, binding to all Baha'is who choose to recite it, after ablution and facing the Qiblih
"I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee.
I testify at this moment to my powerlessness and to Thy Might, to my poverty and to Thy Wealth.
There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."Another interesting observation is God repeatedly reminds us in the Quran that it is a compilation in Arabic, it?s in clear Arabic tongue etc, not once, not twice but ELEVEN times. Why? This number of occurrences leads me to consider the possibility that Arabic as a language IS important for understanding God?s ?literal? word and that perhaps he wants us to use it as a starting point and then move on. Please note the word "literal". I don?t need to learn Arabic to understand any of God?s creations or signs, just the Quran, that?s it. Wishful thinking? M.a.y.b.e. I am all ears and eyes )
LOL, Classical Arabic is too hard (or I would like to exaggerate that point as an excuse, lol). But you'd think that Lord Muhammad WAS from an Arabic-speaking area. To present the Qur'an in a language other than their own tongue would confuse many of them, and because if it were to be in another tongue than their own, why should they listen to an exotic God who spoke to another people?
We have made it into an Arabic compilation, perhaps you may understand.
433Maybe I'm just blind, lol. But then again, you guys are lucky that you have one Scripture overall. As Baha'is, we should be familiar with all the scriptures, and to do such, one would choose to learn Sanskrit for the Bhagavad Gita, Classical Arabic for the Qur'an, the Gathic language for the Avesta, Hebrew and Aramaic for the Tanakh, Greek for the the Gospel, Pali and Sanskrit for Buddhist texts, and both Arabic and Persian for the Writings of Lord Baha'u'llah.
It's a daunting task, lol. o
Yes I know a strong argument can be made saying language is not a barrier etc etc. I agree, but my thinking is different. No barrier will arise if the language was passed down with the book.
If only that could happen. Apparently, there is one village in India that still uses Sanskrit! But this is Classical Arabic... revitalising the language would take lots of motivation and effort from the people, and I have a hard time believing that.
Aah you see, to me it is not about been exotic ;D but I guess that's a matter of perspective. Here is how I see it
- We inherit the Quran yet don't inherit the language
- We know the arabic alphabet but not the language
- We learn the mother tongue of the country we are born into but not the tongue of the religion we are born into
- We take an interest in learning a foreign language if we are planning a holiday somewhere, same applies if we were to emigrate, but we lack the same enthusiasm when it comes to religion
- Heck people even go to the extent of studying languages of ancient civilizations and they master it too in a few years!
The Quran is written in arabic, so why not learn the language? Why do we leave it to "others" to translate it for us?
You are right. But then, you have this One Scripture that is readily accessable and that unifies all Muslims and proponents of God-alone Qur'anically, as opposed to my Faith, lol. If Hebrew can be revitalised, then I don't see why not Classical Arabic. D
Anything ? good or bad - can be comfortable and natural with enough exposure. Language is no exception ) Important clarification I don't need arabic to "talk" to God, or to "talk about" God, just need it to understand God's literal word, that's it (I am sounding like a broken record aren't I? heh heh)
God can say "I love you" in our language many times, and we will still don't get it, or will need to be constantly reminded all the time just to even grasp the meaning of it, lol.
Besides we all agree that translations fall short of the original of any piece of literature, in this case it?s God?s literal word. So, when push comes to shove, do we choose the best or the less?? Teacher or the student?
Can I say both? D We should always constantly be teaching our experiences to the unlearned, and always be open to learn simultaneously! angel
Yes I agree, but "arabcentricism" will only be a problem if one allows it to be so. Please note I am NOT in anyway saying Arabic is part of religion, but it is an important tool just like any other scientific method. Let those who don?t see the distinction be, it?s their loss. I really don?t see a problem in adopting Arabic as my 4th language, so if some poor unfortunate arab comes over and tells me how his language is superior because I know it or cos God chose his language to deliver His final message, well? let?s just say that it won?t be long before he starts crying for his mommy rotfl
Now that doesn't sound very Qur'anic, lol. )
Hmm.. so which method is easier? Creating translations according to a language life cycle, or learning the language? Not to mention the extensive ?change management? that should be employed..
Well, every language that is in use is always subject to change, and classical languages are no doubt still changeable when a large population uses it daily enough to develop. But I guess if exposed quite young in immersion of the language, then it is possible.
If they Jews can do it, then we can too! )
Oops cross connection ;D In SL most of the chanting is done in Arabic, thus the reference..
What's SL? Slovenia? Slovakia? Sri Lanka? -[ But yeah, I understood the reference, but I just wanted to add to the conversation. ^___^
P.S I didn?t get any input from anyone as to whether the Quran can withstand language evolution, eh is it because it?s a silly question? confused
I'm sure it's not a silly question! But I'm sure someone on this site can answer... I'm not smart enough to think of a probable reason, heheh.
God is Love,
Kevyn. -
Peace machan (= friend/buddy/pal in Sinhala slang)
... and because of his high station, these translations and the style is authoritatively used, ...
Yeah well I guess most feel that "thou" has a greater punch or authority than a simple "you".
LOL,
You like to laugh a lot don't you? D that's good?
Classical Arabic is too hard (or I would like to exaggerate that point as an excuse, lol). But you'd think that Lord Muhammad WAS from an Arabic-speaking area. To present the Qur'an in a language other than their own tongue would confuse many of them, and because if it were to be in another tongue than their own, why should they listen to an exotic God who spoke to another people?
Yes true, using the same argument; why should any of us non Arabic speaking people listen to an exotic God who obviously spoke to another people?
My point in the previous post was not about God choosing Arabic as a language but about the reminder that the Quran is in Arabic. We know muhammed was from an Arabic speaking community, if God wanted future generations to know that the Quran was indeed a compilation in Arabic a maximum of maybe 2 or 3 references should do; 11 seems to be a tad bit over the top. Here?s how I see it
(1). the Quran speaks of many things in many ways, but one important fact that sticks out is its universality. What ever that's mentioned in the Quran, is applicable to anyone anywhere - Universal.
(2). Here are the 11 verses where the word ?Arabic? is mentioned• We have sent it down an Arabic compilation, perhaps you will comprehend (1202)
• And as such, We have sent it down a law in Arabic. Continues?(1337)
• And We are aware that they Say ?A human is teaching him.? The language of the one they refer to is foreign, while this is a clear Arabic language.(16103)
• And it was such that We sent it down as an Arabic compilation, and We cited in it many warnings, perhaps they will become aware or it will cause for them a remembrance. (20113)
• In a clear Arabic tongue.(26195)
• A compilation in Arabic, without any crookedness, that they may be righteous. (392
• A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a compilation in Arabic for a people who know. (4103)
• And had We made it a non-Arabic compilation, they would have said ?If only its verses were made clear!? Non-Arabic and Arabic, Say ?For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, there is a deafness in their ears, and they are blind to it. These will be called from a place far away.? (4144)
• And thus We have inspired to you an Arabic compilation, so that you may warn the capital town and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering that is inevitable. A group will be in Paradise, and a group in Hell. (4207)
• We have made it into an Arabic compilation, perhaps you may understand. (4303)
• And this is an authenticating Scripture, in an Arabic tongue, so that you may warn those who have transgressed, and to give good news to the righteous. (4612)
Apart from the fact that prophet muhammed came from an arabic speaking community, my question would be what can we - here, now, at present - learn from this obvious emphasis of a language? I mean many of the verses are still clear if you remove the word Arabic. God doesn?t need to tell prophet muhammed to tell the rest of the town, ?look guys in case you haven?t noticed this book I am preaching to you is in Arabic, so with all due respect, don?t waste your breath?, it?s an argument that any normal, sane, competent human being will put up. But apparently God has thought better, knowing the Quran will not be limited to the locality it was revealed in, he still chose those words to be recorded, why?
A popular opinion about hadeeths is that those books contains false information, and therefore the book as a whole cannot be considered as correct/true (well something along those lines). If I were to stretch this argument a bit; we can?t claim the Quran to be universal and then limit some verses to a certain time or place. There are plenty of books out there that follow the same principle, so in that sense what makes the Quran so special?
So either the Quran is not universal as we thought, because it is applying limits to languages or it is universal and we are not looking at it right (including the mention of the word Arabic)... -\ of course I could be wrong..
Note the Quran talks about "languages" too, which I have not looked into.
We have made it into an Arabic compilation, perhaps you may understand.
433Again you are limiting the ?you? here to a certain time and place, that ?you? can be me right? If it is, does this verse mean that as a non Arabic speaking person I am required not to understand the Quran for my self? And that I should depend on what someone else tells me? I am not calling for a sudden and total abolishment of translations but our dependency on it should gradually decline.
Maybe I'm just blind, lol. But then again, you guys are lucky that you have one Scripture overall. As Baha'is, we should be familiar with all the scriptures, and to do such, one would choose to learn Sanskrit for the Bhagavad Gita, Classical Arabic for the Qur'an, the Gathic language for the Avesta, Hebrew and Aramaic for the Tanakh, Greek for the the Gospel, Pali and Sanskrit for Buddhist texts, and both Arabic and Persian for the Writings of Lord Baha'u'llah.
It's a daunting task, lol. o
Yes, true, I stand corrected where the Baha'i faith is concerned ) but having said that, you can be "Ze Masters of Languages", (now that would be something). Come to think of it we are sort of facing the same dilemma with so many translations out there. Nowhere as daunting a task that you guys have but a task all the same D
If only that could happen. Apparently, there is one village in India that still uses Sanskrit! But this is Classical Arabic... revitalising the language would take lots of motivation and effort from the people, and I have a hard time believing that.
Ah but you see that did happen but sadly not any more. How do you think most muslims know the alphabet and the phonetics? If you don?t mind reading a bit of Sri Lankan history, Islam to SL was introduced through trade, the 1st generation of local muslims were fluent in Arabic, same goes for successive generations, overtime the local muslims came into contact with south Indian muslims through trade and Tamil for the most part replaced Arabic as a language, but the funny thing is through out it all, the shell of the language (letters and phonetics) remained, while the body disappeared. This would have been the case for most countries. So you see it?s not a lost cause, a difficult one yes, but not lost, many people are looking into studying the arabic Quran on their own now..so the tide is turning, God willing things may look up soon ;D
You are right. But then, you have this One Scripture that is readily accessable and that unifies all Muslims and proponents of God-alone Qur'anically, as opposed to my Faith, lol. If Hebrew can be revitalised, then I don't see why not Classical Arabic. D
Yeah that's the spirit sun
God can say "I love you" in our language many times, and we will still don't get it, or will need to be constantly reminded all the time just to even grasp the meaning of it, lol.
Agreed.
Can I say both? D We should always constantly be teaching our experiences to the unlearned, and always be open to learn simultaneously! angel
Ah again agreed my friend, but I was not talking about humans, but rather the scriptures, the Quran (= best/teacher) cannot learn from the translation (=less/student).
Now that doesn't sound very Qur'anic, lol. )
Lol c?mon I was just having some harmless fun.
Well, every language that is in use is always subject to change, and classical languages are no doubt still changeable when a large population uses it daily enough to develop. But I guess if exposed quite young in immersion of the language, then it is possible.
If they Jews can do it, then we can too! )
Yeah ) I was referring to the change management in translations. I don?t think the Jews ever lost touch with the language as we have; maybe that?s their secret to success..? (just a thought)
I'm sure it's not a silly question! But I'm sure someone on this site can answer... I'm not smart enough to think of a probable reason, heheh.
;D Sorry, I meant it as a general question to everyone.. I?ll post it elsewhere..
Peace,
sikes -
Peace All,
-question my knowledge on arabic is below nil, so this question might sound a bit naive. Arethere great many differences between the usages of words in classical and modern arabic? If there are, would the differences still matter, i.e., since the Quran is universal and stands the test of time, shouldn't it also stand the test of language evolution? (ok so it was 2 questions)Welcome to the forum sikes
I'm a native Arabic speaker with intense knowledge in the tough Arabic grammar, I didn't study the Arabic grammar in English I studied it over 30 years ago in Arabic, I see your question the other way around
you asked shouldn't the Quran also stand the test of language evolution?
I say should the language evolution stand the test of the Quran?
Indeed the language evolution that I witnessed in 40 years is not really evolution rather degarding and confusion, for example one of the most evolved concepts that I see widlely used is called the Root, this is suppose to be an evolution invented by humans to the Arabic language which falsely makes all drived words from a root the same meaning exactly for example
N F Q = a three letter root that means "To Spend"
Munafiq means Hyporcite but under the flawed 3 letter root it should mean "Spender"
let me give you anoother example,
S L M = a three letter root that means "Peace" or "Greeting"
Aslam = Submit but under the flawed root method it should mean "to greet"
Islam = Submition to Allah but under the flawed root method it should mean "Peacefulness"
Muslim = Name of the follower of Islam but under the flawed root method it should mean "Peaceful"
Sillim = Ladder but under the flawed root method it should mean somethng related to peace somehow, I really donlt know what it is, but i'm sure you will find many in here who can make the Ladder somehow relates to Peace, possibly a srairway to heaven means a stairway to peace?, I don't know
Musallam = Delieverd but under the flawed root method it should mean "Peaced", somehow
you will see zillions of these examples where the words have been manipulated of their true meaning, their only justification is the flawed root method, they don't care about context and sentences, they don't care about grammar, they don't care about creating tens of contradictions in the Quran under their new invented meanings of words and sure they don't care about causing confusion under their invented meanings but they do care to follow and submit to what they created for themselves according to their own low desires
So the language evolution won't stand the Quran challenge because the Quran will always keep exposing those humans who invent non sense then come and tell us that this is how it should be
The bottom line sister is simply, the Quran is the baseline for the Arabic language evolution and if you ignore that fact then you are not really evolving the language rather degarding it.
Take care
-
Can I just ask
Who is Lord Mohammad?
Cheers
-
Can I just ask
Who is Lord Mohammad?
Cheers
Well, it's a personal thing for me.
Many Muslims always put (PBUH) after the name of a Prophet or Messenger of God to give Them proper respect. In the Baha'i Writings in Arabic and Persian, usually Baha'u'llah is addressed as "His Holiness" and other similar instances... (Mary of Jesus is addressed as "Her Grace".
Since these forms of address are not carried into English (instead, pronouns referring to the Messengers are normally capitalised), I wanted to give Them some appropriate title to give Them honour and respect. Thus I adopted the title "Lord".
I have seen Lord Moses, Lord Jesus and Lord Gautama... so why not extend it to Lord Muhammad and Lord Baha'u'llah as well? As long as people recognise that there is only one true Lord and one true King, then it should be alright. It's extra-Qur'anic, but then again, I'm still anti-hadith when it comes to the Glorious Qur'an.
Love! n__n
With loving Graces,
Kevyn.
