The Crescent
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Yeah I also heard similar explanation that the crescent symbol was spread by the Turks who were nature worshippers and the crescent represented one of the Balkan goddesses. However, I believe there was effort to incorporate the symbol into Islam through a (Fabricated?) hadith which has to do with Caliph Omar's dream.
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Peace
it was political. now it's just an accepted symbol just out of tradition. hmm that hadith dream bit probably is true too. everything they do must be divine lol
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Peace
it was political. now it's just an accepted symbol just out of tradition. hmm that hadith dream bit probably is true too. everything they do must be divine lol
Allah-u-Abha!
But it's such a pretty symbol for the Islamic Faith! The cross for Christianity wasn't accepted until late, and same with the Star of David and Judaism. The Baha'i Faith uses a nine-pointed star as a symbol, since nine as well as nineteen, is the number of perfection and completion.
All of these symbols are really arbitrary (God is obviously free from pictoral attributions), and do create a form of division. But they also give special attributions and reminders of where we belong as individuals. I see no harm in adopting the Crescent and Star symbol, but it should be made aware that it is extra-Qur'anic and not made official.
Ey is the Powerful, the Self-Subsistent,
Kevyn. -
PEace
I definitely agree, it is a pretty symbol ) and perhaps the meaning of the crescent has changed over the years. this is only to the best of my knowledge of the origins of the symbol. Bro Ahmed explained another meaning that actually sounds more beautiful from the political reasons it may have originally come from.
so Bahai' have 19 too! D quite interesting indeed.
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Allah-u-Abha!
But it's such a pretty symbol for the Islamic Faith! The cross for Christianity wasn't accepted until late, and same with the Star of David and Judaism. The Baha'i Faith uses a nine-pointed star as a symbol, since nine as well as nineteen, is the number of perfection and completion.
All of these symbols are really arbitrary (God is obviously free from pictoral attributions), and do create a form of division. But they also give special attributions and reminders of where we belong as individuals. I see no harm in adopting the Crescent and Star symbol, but it should be made aware that it is extra-Qur'anic and not made official.
Ey is the Powerful, the Self-Subsistent,
Kevyn.Salam mate
are you a Bahai follower?
Thanks
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Salaama all,
Allow me to share with you my observations regarding the crescent. In french, the word for crescent is croissant and that word is related to growth. Opposite to growth is d?croissance, I don't think the english language has the word decrescent. From what I have observed, the symbol used for islam is a decrescent, not a crescent.
Some time after entering islam, many people asked me if I was to do ramadam. I didn't know what was ramadam. I was told it was a month of fasting. So I asked about how do you know when is ramadam? This month seemed to pop up from nowhere. Well I discovered not only was there one month, there were twelve, twelve lunar months.
This is where the crescent fits in as traditionally as I was told, ramadam began the day after the sighting of the crescent of the moon. In many ways the crescent is associated with the beginning of ramadam. Problem was muslims in my city would differ on that first day of the month. There were years when they had 3 different days, depending on the group, when ramadam would begin, all related to the seeing of the crescent. This made no sense to me. So I started looking for the crescent myself.
Then I noticed the crescent on the algerian flag, the tunisian flag, the turkish flag, the red crescent. What was odd to me was although they called them crescents, in fact they weren't. They were decrescents. On the moon the crescent is on the right side of the moon. As the month advances, the moon fills up with light from right to left. Likewise, after the full moon, darkness enters the moon from right to left yo the final 'crescent' perhaps better said as the final decrescent. That moon signals darkness to come as in the following day or spin of the earth, there will be no light on the moon, what is called the new moon. The crescent is on the right, a decrescent would be on yhe left side of the moon.
If a crescent announces the return of light, a decrescent would announce darkness. Why do 'muslims' use a decrescent rather than a crescent? The symbol is perfect in describing the state 'muslims' are in... When I went about sharing my observation, the crescent of islam fell back to earth, as it became a symbol of the fertile crescent, the land islam had conquerred or some story. Whatever. But you can't hide the truth.
The sight of a first crescent is quite something to see as it is just a thread of light in the sky. You wouldn't think the thread would grow to a full moon. Astronomers have had competitions in the fastest time seeing the crescent after the time of the new moon. It's worth looking up, looking up in the sky...
adjwi
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Salam mate
are you a Bahai follower?
Thanks
Ahmed,
Allah-u-Abha! (God is the Most Glorious!)Yes, I am a Baha'i, and I follow the Baha'i Faith. ) I am not "Muslim" in the traditional sense, but I try to be peaceful and submit to God.
You're welcome!
Ya Baha'u'l-Abha! (O Glory of the Most Glorious!)
Kevyn. -
Adjwi, Allah-u-Abha!
Thank you for sharing that post. It was very beautiful and seemed more neutral than a for/against of the usage of the Crescent and Star.
The rejection of the Crescent and Star by pagan allusions is as sensical as rejecting the Gregorian Calendar because of its pagan names. (But then again, I try to use the Baha'i solar Calendar... there are 19 days in a month, and there are 19 months in a year, and each day of the week, each numerical day, and each month is named after one of God's attributes!)
It is extra Qur'anic, of course, but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily evil or contrary to the Faith as much as deviations from God's commandments outlined in Eir Word. And it is a very beautiful, unofficial symbol of the Qur'anic Faith of God!
God is the Most Glorious,
Kevyn. -
PEace
I definitely agree, it is a pretty symbol and perhaps the meaning of the crescent has changed over the years. this is only to the best of my knowledge of the origins of the symbol. Bro Ahmed explained another meaning that actually sounds more beautiful from the political reasons it may have originally come from.
so Bahai' have 19 too! D quite interesting indeed.
BOOST,
Allahuabha!I would love to hear Brother Ahmed's explanation then! If there is a link that you could direct me to such, I would be glad to read it!
Yes, we do have 19 too, as well as 9!
Baha in Arabic is worth 9, and it is the highest single digit. There are 9 members in the Universal House of Justice (UHJ), as well as 9 members in the National Spiritual Assembly (like a committee, the NSA) and the Local Spiritual Assembly of the local area (LSA). We recognise 9 Manifestations (prophets of God) as well as 9 recognised religions. And one of our our three symbols is the 9 pointed star. The revealing of the Bab and the intimation of Baha'u'llah's mission to the world had 9 years in between.
We chant the name of God (Allah-u-Abha) 95 times (5 x 19), and apparently the Arabic word for "One" is worth 19. There are 19 days and 19 months. I'm still really unclear on the significance of the two numbers, other than their numerological significances.
God bless,
Kevyn. -
Peace Bro Kevyn
lol i was just referring to his post above
he says it's linked to the lunar calendar and the 12 months of the year. dunno bro AB you got an article on this? ;D
i just thought that idea was much more natural and related to the earth and peaceful than some turkish conquest... in my opinion at least
so bahai's don't consider themselves muslim? or do some? was Baha-ullah considered a prophet?
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Peace Bro Adjwi
hmm well if it originated in some pagan ritual in constantinople then you'd have to ask yourself why they used a "decrescent". from what i understand the turks just took it as their symbol to rub it in everyone's face that they took the strategic city. remember that was a major city for christians. it then became the official symbol of the Ottoman Empire. People often attribute an Islamic Empire to the Ottoman Empire, hence modern-day belief that it is a symbol of islam.
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Salam.
Some people think that carrying the golden moons and stars on their necklaces is part of the Islam. Of course, this has now become such tradition that if you don't carry this object, you're not good Muslim, at least this goes here in the Balcans.
Person must first have religion in his heart, you can carry any object, any sign around your neck, wrist or an ankle, Islam is in the heart.
Peace.
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Peace Bro Kevyn
i just thought that idea was much more natural and related to the earth and peaceful than some turkish conquest... in my opinion at least
so bahai's don't consider themselves muslim? or do some? was Baha-ullah considered a prophet?
Ya Baha'u'l-Abha, BOOST!
Yes, the theory seems much more natural than the one of the conquest -- I heartily agree! His post was actually very beautifully done!
Baha'is normally (and shouldn't) do not consider themselves Muslims (one of my Muslim friends had a Baha'i who said that he was Muslim...). But since we believe that our Revealed Religion is the Revelation for this Day and Age, we are essentially, Buddhists who follow Buddha, Christians who follow Jesus, Muslims who follow Muhammad, Jews who follow Moses, etc. But we are in all, Baha'is who follow the Prophet Baha'u'llah to GOD. And all these religions should all come to GOD in the end.
Baha'u'llah is a Prophet of God to Baha'is though!
Salamaa all,
Kevynbello, is it prudent to try using a calendar with 19 months when the quran mentions 12? I don't need the answer but I felt my duty to give the question.
adjwi
Well, I'm not a Muslim and since I am a Baha'i, we have a new Revelation. Some religions seem to have their own new way of time keeping as the old Revelation passes away. Plus, 19 is a wonderful, Qur'anic number anyways! ^__^
127
The number of months in a year, appointed in the
Book of God, is nineteen. Of these the first hath been
adorned with this Name which overshadoweth the
whole of creation.(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 64)
Salam.
Some people think that carrying the golden moons and stars on their necklaces is part of the Islam. Of course, this has now become such tradition that if you don't carry this object, you're not good Muslim, at least this goes here in the Balcans.
Person must first have religion in his heart, you can carry any object, any sign around your neck, wrist or an ankle, Islam is in the heart.
Peace.
This is most true. When I first became a Baha'i and desired to wear a nine-pointed star on my neck (many Baha'is in my community wear a ring with the Ringstone symbol, but I end up losing rings, or that they get stuck on my finger), I went to the Vancouver Baha'i Centre to see what kind of jewellery they had. The store volunteer told me, that it is more important to show the Faith through one's deeds and actions rather than what you wear.
Baha'i symbols http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_symbols (Who knew, the official symbol of the Baha'i Faith is a five-pointed star!)
So true, so true, lol. But symbols, as I said earlier, although arbitrary, should constantly act as reminders of our identity, and to what (or Who) we belong to.
Allah-u-Abha!
Kevyn. -
Salaam kevynbello
Ya Baha'u'l-Abha, BOOST!
Allah-u-Abha! (God is the Most Glorious!)
Why do use a greeting in Arabic that is meaaningless even in Arabic, and a tribute to God that certainly does not mean "Glorious"? Is it just because it is derived from the name of your prophet? Do you idolise him that much?
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Salaam kevynbello
Why do use a greeting in Arabic that is meaaningless even in Arabic, and a tribute to God that certainly does not mean "Glorious"? Is it just because it is derived from the name of your prophet? Do you idolise him that much?
The name Baha (Glory, Splendour) is one of the attributes of God. Some of the names of the Prophets or Messengers are also attributes of God. Although they should be for God alone, they are given to the Messengers because they have been chosen by God.
Jesus = Yahweh is my Saviour
Muhammad = the Praised One
Buddha = Enlightened One
Krishna = "All-Attractive One" dark one
Abraham = Father of many nations
Zoroaster = Golden StarIf you want to believe that I am an idol worshipper, then I'm an idol worshipper, lol. But whether I am or not, (in my heart, I see no wrong and I do not see myself as idolising him as a god), I do it for the love of God.
Allah-u-Abha!
Kevyn. -
Peace Sis Samia
Well, correct me if i'm wrong... if Baha is just glory and Baha'ullah means the glory of God, then when he says Allahu Abha - abha being superlative, that would mean God is Most Glorious... i don't see how that would make anyone an idol worshipper... i don't think that was a very nice conclusion you made about him.
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Salaam kevyn
I am sorry if my message offended you. I did not mean that you are an idol worshipper. I did not ask if you worshipped him. Idolize could mean "to love too much", and that was clear from the context, as you use his name in greetings, and maybe in other contexts.
Peace Sis Samia
Well, correct me if i'm wrong... if Baha is just glory
Salaam Boost
Baha is beauty, splendour, brilliance.. -
Salaam kevyn
I am sorry if my message offended you. I did not mean that you are an idol worshipper. I did not ask if you worshipped him. Idolize could mean "to love too much", and that was clear from the context, as you use his name in greetings, and maybe in other contexts.
Salaam Boost
Baha is beauty, splendour, brilliance..My sister in God,
Allah-u-Abha!No harm done. As long as you are sincere, it is no sin to God, lol.
I know we're going off topic, but here are some passages that may help you understand the Baha'i sense of the Messengers and God. The Messengers are considered both human and divine (when they receive Revelation from God), but they are not GOD Emself, who is unknowable and greater than all things.
Lord Baha'u'llah likens it to the Sun and mirrors (heheh, with the pagan Sun analogy). The Sun is God, and the Messengers are but the Mirrors that reflect the Divine Light. People, those who perceive the light may call the Mirror God, but in truth, The Messengers are but reflectors of the One True Source of Light, and thus are not GOD.
XXI. O Salman! The door of the knowledge of the Ancient Being hath ever been, and will continue for ever to be, closed in the face of men. No man's understanding shall ever gain access unto His holy court. As a token of His mercy, however, and as a proof of His loving-kindness, He hath manifested unto men the Day Stars of His divine guidance, the Symbols of His divine unity, and hath ordained the knowledge of these sanctified Beings to be identical with the knowledge of His own Self. Whoso recognizeth them hath recognized God. Whoso hearkeneth to their call, hath hearkened to the Voice of God, and whoso testifieth to the truth of their Revelation, hath testified to the truth of God Himself. Whoso turneth away from them, hath turned away from God, and whoso disbelieveth in them, hath disbelieved in God. Every one of them is the Way of God that connecteth this world with the realms above, and the Standard of His Truth unto every one in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. They are the Manifestations of God amidst men, the evidences of His Truth, and the signs of His glory.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 49)
Since we believe that God is forever unknowable as long as we are in fleshly bodies here on Earth, the Manifestations (the Prophets who are so-called because they manifest the Attributes, and some even the Names of God) are the gateway to Em. The Revelation (Holy Spirit) is the connectivity between the Realm of God and the Realm of Humanity.
It is why Lord Krishna says to love Him. It is why Lord Jesus claimed as the Way to the Father. And in the Qur'an, obedience to the Message of Lord Muhammad. And since God is much unknowable in Eir Divine and Glorious Essence, I don't see why one can not love the Prophets of God. ) They were, after all, chosen!
I hope you can understand where I am coming from, although you may disagree. ^__^
God is sufficient unto me,
Ey is the All-Sufficing.
Kevyn.