Chronology of the Quran
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the quran is it's own proof.
http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/koran.htm
this free-minds article illustrates why the qur'an is in exact order it is supposed to be. taking the traditonalist order of revelation would mean the structure miracle no longer exists.
this structure miracle is greater proof than finding any ancient manuscript.
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Peace adjwi and welcome
i just wondered what brought you to islam in the first place ?
you said
I entered Islam walking backwards with eyes shut. I opened my eyes to discover it was dark, pitch black insideWas it the code ? Coz that's what actually happended to me. Believe came long before acceptance of things i understood from reading quran.
Just curious,
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peace be upon you adjwi,
i am curious to know the order you read the quran. can you please provide me a link in "the order you read in the quran" from the internet, or is it in some book which is inaccessible in the United States?
and... welcome
peace, rifat
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Salaama all,
Thank-you all for your posts and questions, I shall attempt to provide answers.
RiseUpMyPpl, thanks for the link. I'm not sure what you are saying about the structural miracle not being elswhere. From what I know some people working with code 19 found structure in the chronological reading but I don't believe much attention has been given in that direction. I'm not sure either which reading could be called traditionalist.
As I mentionned, I made a list myself of the chronological order from the copy of the quran I obtained a few months after my enterance. If you go to the SUBMITTERS web site you should www.submission.org/quran/apps.html in appendix 23. Perhaps you can find it elswhere, I don't know.
Now Elke, what brought me to islam was a committment I made myself to honour my word. Spontaneously, I offered free, a perfect stranger, my country. This was said in the light of her, receiving a bureucratic response of leaving my country she was visiting on a visa, to deposit a request to obtain a students visa. She had made a request from within and was told to leave to make the request. She had no means to meet these silly rules as far as I was concerned so I said to myself you want my country I'll give it to you. That's pretty well how the story began.
Now mind you I had second thoughts about this afterwards and I could of said forget it stranger and nobody I knew would of known, but for personal reasons regarding where I was in my life at that time, I made a decision in that circumstance to honour my word. To my greatest surprise, entering islam became the only way to achieve this offer. Islam was thus a means, not an end. When I went to find out how to become a muslim, somehow awaiting for my ignorance to save me, for I knew nothing, I walked out of the place somewhat, if not very, shell-shocked after being told I was now a muslim! How could that be? Hence began my journey.
I entered islam to honour my word. In return for my country, I obtained a quran, which is now my book. What a bargain!
adjwi
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Salaam all
" Reading The Quran in CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER , How Do you Know This so Called CHRONOLIGICAL ORDER IS TRUE ??? Where is This Information regarding The Quran Chronology from ? Hadiths Huh ? yeah
The Quran as we find it today is The Order that The God Wants us to find IT and study it . Or do you think that , The GOD forgot to Arrange The Quran ? This is a Very Important Question. Please answer It with Reference to The Quran Verses as Verification . Thank you .almarhom
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Salaama all,
What is wrong with reading the book? My understanding is that what was revealed to Mohammed was not in the order the book is found today, do you agree? Was allah giving one order for Mohammed, one order for the rest? Or was it one order during revelation, one order after? And if the order after made sense to those who were present at the time of Mohammed, those who were left behind, does that mean it has to make as much sense today? I wasn't there 1400 years ago so is it possible that what made sense then doesn't make as much today?
My first book on islam was the quran, I picked-up the order from the copy of the quran. I have nothing to do with the tradition of the 'muslims', my effort is in trying to follow the path of those who did not go astray, the rightfully guided by allah, from Adam to Mohammed. From what I understand, Ali would be after the prophet the most knowkedgeable person with respect to the quran since he is said to have been present throughout and in the house. So historically, after prophecy, before shiism, I'll go with Ali for the straight line. From Adam to Ali. But that's not how the story went, for the umma that is.
adjwi
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Salaam Adjwi
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You did not answer my question regarding the "CHRONOLOGY" of The Quran .
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As per your UNDERSTANDING , Re 'What was Revealed to Muhammad' was not in the Order of THE QURAN
that we have Today is BASELESS !
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For your Information , THE QURAN WILL ALWAYS Make Sense to The People Who Use their INtellectual Faculties
and their hearts . -
You picked up the Chronology of the QURAN from The QURAN ? Do you mind telling us where in The QURAN ,
Chapter and Verse Plese?
*" Ali was the Most Knowledgable Re QURAN after Muhammad" ??? Evidence Please???
May THE GOD Bless You and Guide you Adjwi . Cheers
almarh0m
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Salaama all,
Would you be in a disputing mood almarh0m? How constructive can that be? The answer to your question has been given at the bottom of reply # 6. Because you haven't understood, I'll explain again.
The basis of my affirmation is not theoretical, nor is it ideology but from experience, my experience. Of anything I consider myself the most expert in that domain, my experience. So it should be for all other humans once they enter into adulthood and the further they move in life. But that's not necessarly the case, but definitely possible.
This experience is in relation with the quran I received, in this case a Saudi version with a french 'translation'. So in the quran I have, there are two types of words at the top of each chapter, sourate. They indicate pre-, and post- followed by a number. I don't have it besides me at this moment but this as accurate as I think. I had no idea what that meant. I asked the question and was told those numbers represented the order of revelation of chapters/ sourate as per who, I wasn't told and I don't think the person knew either. From there the story about iqra being the first word revealed. Is that true, I don't know I wasn't there. Were you?
So at one point I set myself to intentify from the quran I had the number 1, and 2 and so on. What I discovered was that chapter/sourate 96 had pre-1, 68 had pre-2, 73 had pre-3, 74 had pre-4, 1 had pre-5 and so on. What suprised me was that chapter/sourate 2 was the first marked post and it was post-87. What this was supposed to mean was that would be the first chapter revealed in Madinna in year 13 or something. But I don't know, I began my journey completely ignorant. Do you know for true?
In any case, in whatever order, the reading of the quran is not chronological in the events that are revealed. The evidence before me is that the 'muslim' world, sum total today is a confused bunch, killing each other, all in the name of truth and the name of allah. Why is that? Can you explain? Ask any party, all will tell you they are the righteous, others are wrong. Can that be?
The order of reading seems to be prevailing for over 1400 years. Where's the problem? With the book or with the reader? So I'm a free mind, are you?
As for Ali, would't his science be greater than that of the last convert?
adjwi
p.s. By the way, when do you think the numbers of the verses/ayats were put in? In the time of Mohammed or after?
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Many times the Quran mentions that had Allah wanted, he could of revealed the entire book in one occasion. However this was not his method. Pedagogically this makes sense. Faced with the totality of the book how can one make sense of it entirely? Impossible. Only with time and method can this begin to be possible.
20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Quran before its inspiration is completed to you, and Say ?My Lord, increase my knowledge.?
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Peace Bro Erik
true that and welcome to the forum !