"Hajj" poll

unknownuser

Salaam Azfar,

"Albayt alharam" is the physical building where the hajj/debate/conference takes place. It can be translated as the restricted sanctuary; the haram/restricted part coming from it being the physical building where the session of "almasjid alharam"/the institution of hearing and obeying the restriction also takes place, in addition to the hajj/debate, and also from hajj/debate taking place in the shahr alharam.

For more info on "albayt alharam" and "almasjid alharam" please see the following links

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg110854#msg110854

Also please see the following relevant article

http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

god1quran1

Salaam Azfar,

"Albayt alharam" is the physical building where the hajj/debate/conference takes place. It can be translated as the restricted sanctuary; the haram/restricted part coming from it being the physical building where the session of "almasjid alharam"/the institution of hearing and obeying the restriction also takes place, in addition to the hajj/debate, and also from hajj/debate taking place in the shahr alharam.

For more info on "albayt alharam" and "almasjid alharam" please see the following links

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg110854#msg110854

Also please see the following relevant article

http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

Peace. These are long articles and I do not want to disrespect your work by jotting down a 1 line response. Let me read them.

Am I to assume your understanding of Hajj is different from that of Aidid Safar? Is there any post on the forum that dissects Safar's work on the Hajj issue?

thanks.

unknownuser

Peace Azfar,

Feel free to use the search function to look up discussions about "hajj" on this forum. Also please read the various articles on this subject on the home page of the website.

Alen

Salam.

I read an article regarding pilgrimage and i think it is in Jerusalem. There's much to investigate and verify before i can go there.
God knows best.

Peace.

god1quran1

Peace Azfar,

Feel free to use the search function to look up discussions about "hajj" on this forum. Also please read the various articles on this subject on the home page of the website.

I will.
Can you answer the second part of my post#20

thanks and peace.

unknownuser

Peace Azfar,

I dont know if there has been a discussion on that subject here. I would recommended you to use the search function to browse this forum to see if there has been such a discussion.

god1quran1

Peace,

Can you please post your version of the translation of 2125. I could'nt find it anywhere.

thanks.

unknownuser

Peace Azfar,

Please see the posts at the following links

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8585.msg26137#msg26137

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112573#msg112573

I am also ok with "salat" meaning "commitment to read/study the revelations of The God and remember The God".

You might find the following posts helpful too

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10220.msg49783#msg49783

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11105.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7327.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7402.0 (aidid's errors)

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7503.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7631.0

god1quran1

Yes this is exactly what I was looking for. I am very grateful for your help

thanks and peace.

god1quran1

In this verse related to the Hajj, Aidid translates the word al-ahillati as

2189 They ask you about worthiness (7456), Tell them, "It is the specific period for mankind and the challenge". And it is not virtuousness that you enter the house from its back - but it however the virtuousness of those who are observant to enter the house from its doors. And you shall observe God so that you may benefit.

citing 7456 as his evidence. Others translate it as

They ask you regarding the new moons, say ?They are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for the alhajj (Pilgrimage).? (2189)

Yas-aloonaka AAani al-ahillati qul hiya mawaqeetu lilnnasi waalhajji

There are a number of issues here

Is the word al-ahillati then derived from the root word H-L-L or A-H-L ?
Would an association with the root A-H-L render the above verse grammatically incorrect?
Or is it because the verse mentions time that we associate it with the root word H-L-L?
As a side note, considering what has been said above what does ahla albayti in verse such as 3333 mean?
Could any of these words have been derived from the root word H-L-K?

Any help would be appreciated.

peace.

jonny_k

Peace all,
Cld i get more votes and feedback on this poll? Thanks. sun GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace,
The list of meanings in PRL does not include "mecca" and "becca" being the name of any physical places at all

Miim-Kaf-Kaf = Sucking, Sucking up, Absorbing, drinking up, Destruction/Destroying, diminishing, diminution/failing; failure, to cast, to throw away, to discard, to straighten/tighten or impede/restrict, to beseech/ask/accept, crowding, competition (izdihaam).

makkah n.f. 4824

The meaning in bold does make sense in context of 4824 as also pointed out by Ayman.

= Ba-Kaf-Kaf (e.g. bakka) = pounding or crushing (al-&unuqa (on) the neck) (daqqul-&unuqa), distinguishing/ranking above others (farraqahu, kharaqahu), jostling, pressing or crowding(crowdszahm), any crowding(or crowds), competition. (izdihaam) heaping/piling together/amassing (taraakib), super-imposition of things on top of other things (taraakim), a man/male having or the trying to have sex with a female, denial or rejection a thing or person's dignity, to humiliate, cancellation/dissolution/breaking, being in need or being stout, muscular or rough, from activity.

bakkah n. 396

Can anybody try and see which meaning here suits best into the context of 396? GOD Bless!

AlFajr

4824 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
4825 They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the Restricted Temple, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have committed a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whomever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those of them who rejected with a painful retribution.

Could it be that Mecca and Bekka are not even talking about the same place?

jonny_k

Peace "aalmakto",
Yes most certainly theyr not the same places if places at all. GOD Bless!

sirohey

salat .. Prayer connection with GOD
zakat ... Purity
hajj -- contention
kaaba .... The house in Mecca construced by my father Abraham and Ismail
majidul haram .. mosque around the kaaba exactly "the disallowed or sanctified Mosque"
safa ..... the lining of the animals for sacrifice at the bait al ateeq ... in jerusalem

marva ... don't know .. but I believe it is the place where Abraham tried to sacrifice one of his sons to GOD .. maybe the rock under the dome in Jerusalem

anthonywallace

Peace all,

I believe pigramage is to be made every year for whoever can make a path to it. And whoever cannot send a affordable donation. And do not shave your heads untill the donation reaches its destination.

Does anyone have proof that pilgramage is to be made once in a lifetime? How do we know that it isnt to be made yearly (" By the cresint moons" )

Or does he know the future and thus has it recorded?

Have you seen the one who turned away? He gave very little then he stopped?

Or was he uninformed of the Scriptures in the teachings of Moses?

???

ayman

Peace everyone,

When we look in the great reading, we see the following facts about "hagg"

It has been going on since the time of Abraham, so definitely the people of the book and all people knew about it and did it.
When we read the purpose of the "hagg" in 2228 we see that it is to witness benefits and to remember the name of the god on what he gave us from the livestock. We are further told that the purpose if to eat from it and feed the poor. In fact, if we carefully read the whole passage from 2227-37, we can realize that 90% of it is about the livestock. So this "hagg" is primarily about eating and feeding others.
It is something that naturally attracts people and thus one can use as a tool to invite ALL people with.

So what do we call that which is described by points 1, 2 and 3 above? Is a debate or a religious pilgrimage the first thing that comes to mind? Of course not! Ironically, the answer is very easy to find and it was right in front of us the whole time. When we look up the word "hagg" in the Old Testament, we see that it means "feast" and this is how the people of the book understood it. The prophet didn't invent anything new. The concepts in the message that he delivered are universal concepts that have always been understood.

So when is the best time to have that feast?

Naturally, the best time for feasts is when livestock and crops are plentiful. The time when those things are most plentiful is from mid-summer to early fall. Interestingly, summer to early-fall is the same time when the hunting of most species of wildlife is restricted in most places around the world.

In ancient civilizations, feasts during the the mid-summer to early fall period naturally started after the night of the full-moon. The full-moon served as a marker that everyone from all over can witness. Additionally, from a practical point of view, the full-moon the night before the feast allowed farmers to work late at night to harvest the crops for the next day's feast. Hence, the term "harvest moon" to describe such full-moons.

For more information about the timing, please see

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm

Now we can answer JK's question about the meaning that best fits bakkah in 396

Can anybody try and see which meaning here suits best into the context of 396?

I believe that the etymology points to "competition" as being the meaning since it is the common thread tht runs accross the other meanings. Also, "competition" is what one normally thinks of as making the annual feast more successful.

Peace,

Ayman

1CELOSTNOWFOUND

Peace all

I am not sure as to how to vote at this point, but I am going through the various threads and articles regading this issue.

In doing so, I have come to realise that even though I have for many years held that the Quran is the only source required for fulfilling my responsibilities as a Muslim and Mu'min, there are still so many preconceptions that I have not challenged yet. This is due to a Sunni upbringing that force fed me (and continues to force feed so many) a bunch of drivel and utter nonsense that these things have become so ingrained as to be a part of my make up a person. I thank all here for the time and effort put into attempting to clear these issues up.

As for the hajj specifically, even though I have not yet read all of threads and articles, i feel that the once in a lifetime duty for those who can afford it definitely seems to be a "no go" for me. Some of the reasons for this are

I find it difficult to believe that the God would prescribe a duty that so few can fulfil due to various constraints such as affordability.
Also the ritual that don't seem to have any benefit in contributing to the fulfilment of a productive application of what the God expects us to do as per the Quran,
The exclusion of the rest of mankind (if this is presumed in those choices).

The debate makes the most sene to me thus far. As to whether it is prescribed for a particular place or not, I am as yet uncertain.

I will continue to read the threads and articles and post again at a later stage, when my understanding is more concrete than it is at this point.

I know that this may not be the right thread for the following, but would appreciate some suggestions on how to search the forum to target specific other issues I am currently investigating such as Salat, Zakah, Sadaqa, Riba, and Fasting. Also articles regarding these as the threads are at times a littlke too too much to sift through when one's time is limited.

Imraan

SwedenMajidah

Salam,

I found feast as most logical. When the farmers have harvest the crops a feast is very welcome and who have said people must eat meat.
The table can be laid with delicious fruits and veggies and bread etc.

Maria

sirohey

The four forbidden months are the months of Ramadan and the three following it. The Quran came down in ten nights of One of the Months of Ramadan. It has to have been AFTER the return to Mecca of Mohammad and his followers, and after the victory of the Romans AFTER their defeat earlier during Mohammd's Prophethood. History has only one such documented case from 600 - 635 AD ....... around 617AD the Romans were defeated and around 627-629 AD they were victorious. So the Quran must have been sent down after that victory and before Mohammad's death.

In that year the Spirit and the Angels came down to deliver the Quran to Mohammad and his followers ... much like the Torah was delivered to Moses .... but in Moses's case it was the meeting with God Himself that Moses attended alone ..... and the "Tablets" were delivered to him during the 40 night meeting with God and His forces with Moses.

The four forbidden months must follow the Lunar calender and thus will move through the seasons of the year over 2 1/2 decades .... and as believers we are all forbidden from "Hunting" land animals during those four months, and also from fighting and wronging ourselves unless we are fought against. This gives ALL land animals the time to replenish their populations, while we hunt other types of animals. The system is perfect if we follow what God tells us ... when we start inventing our own reasons ... that's when we reach where we have reached as Mankind.