Hoors?!?
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So, if both hoor and ein are noons, hoor meaning ?beautiful women? and ein meaning ?eye?, hoorin Aaeenin would mean ?beautiful women eyes?.
Would it not sound a bit strange ?that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the eye rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
Why would not hoor be an adjective of ein, hoor meaning ?pure??
No way, if there is an adjectivbe then the Ein is the adjective and not the hoor
Salam
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that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the eye rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
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No way, if there is an adjectivbe then the Ein is the adjective and not the hoor
Why ?
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There was an error in my comment, here it is again
that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the hoor rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
Why ?
because the adjective must be the second word not the first
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There was an error in my comment, here it is again
that is if you take the eye as part of the hoor, and as i said for me it is not part of the hoor rather the eye is part of those who will see the hoor, this is a common use in Arabic and I believe there are a few examples in the Quran I have to look for it when I have some time
I still don?t understand.
Could you quote the examples you are talking about ?because the adjective must be the second word not the first
Yes, indeed.
Are there no exceptions to this rule ?Peace
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I still don?t understand.
Could you quote the examples you are talking about ?when I have some free time
Yes, indeed.
Are there no exceptions to this rule ?Peace
Never heard of any excpetion regarding adjectives
Salam
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PEace all
i didn't read the whole thread but what is the big deal if the quran said you'll find virgins in heaven?is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways. i've heard many americans say sleeping with a virgin is a thousand times better than sleeping with a non-virgin. sorry for being blunt about it.
so why the big deal if that would be something God mentions as a reward in heaven? stop trying to bend over backwards to try to run away from what things really say out of fear of being labeled backwards. Have you ever stopped to wonder who is making that label and for what purpose?
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Peace Bro PHoenix
is it bad if the quran DOESN'T say we'll get virgins in heaven?
its not bad IF the quran doesn't say we'll get virgins in heaven but we're not talking about what it doesn't say.
I don't think this whole virgin thing makes any sense, to be honest with you.
I don't see why it doesn't make sense to you.
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In my opinion, it's about the way people look at things.
Some people are not satisfied with translations because something rings wrong with them, be it self induced or something actually wrong with the translation (all we can do is decide by analysing what is on offer, e.g. their explanations etc and come to a better understanding of the whole picture). Thus, when anyone looks for a better translation, it's normally because there is something that seems off with the current, it might be contradicting another verse or going against a general concept etc. Whatever the case, the quran itself invites indepth analysis of itself so any reason to do it, is a good thing in the long run.
so why the big deal if that would be something God mentions as a reward in heaven? stop trying to bend over backwards to try to run away from what things really say out of fear of being labeled backwards. Have you ever stopped to wonder who is making that label and for what purpose?
The question isn't about bending over backwards and IF there are virgins we should accept it. It's just an interesting analysis over what it could be, possible mistranslations, sociopolitical spins to it through the ages and so on. In any case, questioning and analysing the quran is generally beneficial. It's true that some take it too far (on both sides of the fence) and we should strive for a healthy balance.
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This is very important topic being discussed and as usual Muslims are confused on it each and every one has his own explanation.
To dig it out first of all we have to see what actually does the word Hoor as used in Quran means?
Looking at the Arab society at that time and all the related stories lead us to the word meaning "Beautiful women" with big eyes or white colour bla bla...
But then this is Quran we are talking about, which is word of God and without any error and Allah has to be just with men and women, so we can't just depend upon stories, we have to reserach it out.
In this quest some go as far as talking about cosmology and some restrict to heresay chains.Ahmad Bhagat wrote
Hoor is the plural of Horiah, Horiah is a beautiful woman
And your source please?
Some say
hryah (Arabic ‎ are described as "pure beings" or "companions pure" of paradise
The Arabic word "Hur", which occurs four times in the Qur?an, is plural of "Ahwar" for the masculine gender and "Huwra" (or houri) for the feminine. Thus, the huriyah may be male or female, either of which describes a person distinguished by "hawar", meaning "purity
So Mr. Bhagat even if you speak Arabic how are you so sure about your translation, offcourse we also want to know how the others are sure about theirs.Boost
i didn't read the whole thread but what is the big deal if the quran said you'll find virgins in heaven?
is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways.Well; we have to take this statement seriously.
Problem arises when influenced by west or others, we start thinking as they do, and we want to see Quran as we think.Problem is due to following assertion
Man and Woman are equal so if they are equal, why men get beautiful ladies and Ladies will have to restrict to their 100 times used husbands and those who are not married will have to reamin without it even in paradise?
Can any one quote to me a single verse in Quran which states Men and Women are equal? Be care ful!
But if we take the translation as of women and men both then
Major problem with the word Hoor is that
Why at the first place Allah offers Hoors whatever the translation to it be, because if we are able to understand that then only we can exactly come to know what a HOOR is?
"Thus shall it be. And We shall pair them with companions pure, most beautiful of eye."
Verses before and after this verse are describing the disbelievers and righteous, so Allah is offering to righteous mates virgin and beautiful to Men and Women no doubt about that, offcourse grapes as some of posters said is not appropriate translation, Opposite sex, living for ever and easy life can be an attraction but Grapes doesnot make any sense here.
Now pure I think is Virgin here?In these will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being will have touched then."
or
Their beautiful mates were never touched by any human or jinn.Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
So these mates are made for a specific purpose, to entertain righteous Men and Women.
Considering Human nature we want reward for any thing we do!
Allah considering the nature of Humans offers them Beautiful mates if they are righteous.So one thing is clear Allah offers reward for righteous in shape of Beautiful mates in addition to the earthly couples themselves.
This is what I understand from Quranic verses right or wrong; is open for discussion.
Al-mahroom wrote
So , Even in Heaven The Girls ( Virgins ) will still Be Play-Things for The Men ? are these Virgins Entitled to 70 Spunky Guys as well ?
First of all there is no such a thing as 70 or 72 mentioned in Quran, secondly let us consider that girls are play things here in this world and in future world, then what?..........
Please let me here your argument then what if girls are play things for men? -
Peace Boost, all
is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways. i've heard many americans say sleeping with a virgin is a thousand times better than sleeping with a non-virgin. sorry for being blunt about it.
Sorry to tell you boost but a virgin is a virgin just once...if u get what i mean. And to my knowledge, 20% of virgins are not recognized as such this one time, which in some countries can be their death sentence. Virgins , or rather women which did not have children yet are narrower, which could be more pleasurable for a guys - especially if he's "small" >
This virgin stuff is just macho behaviour ; it's about taking something only for urself and even very often about giving pain at the same time. The most rewarding sexual encounter is one that is shared with love and mutual pleasure.
And IMO quran puts the acccent on chastity, which is not the same as virginity.
Just my 2 pence.
Elke
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Peace Sis Elke
the fact of the matter is, it is coveted by all cultures all over the world. You may think it's wrong, macho behavior, or mean but its a fact of life. For whatever reason, a pure virgin woman in terms of having sex is recognized to be a unique experience.
This virgin stuff is just macho behaviour ; it's about taking something only for urself
you say it as if its a bad thing. Most people, men and women would prefer to be the only one their partner has been with. It might be unfair to a person who was unchaste but purity is what is the hur's characteristic in the quran and being a virgin would be the ultimate purity. Someone who is completely untouched would be the ultimate in chastity. If chastity is what is emphasized in the quran as you say, then virginity would be the ultimate in chastity. Virginity does not necessarily have to equal an intact hymen. It's a state of mind where a person has never experienced a sexual encounter before. This is indeed the epitome of chastity. Of course, you can still be a chaste person who is sexually active with your husband. But the upmost level of chastity would be a pure virgin that was never touched before.
You mention also that it might have to do with a man who is "small", well, since it is heaven wouldn't something that conjures up a perfect experience without any feeling of insecruity be a good thing in heaven? Imgaine sex with no insecurities of how you measure up with your partner's past experiences!
even very often about giving pain at the same time.
I don't know any normal man who wants to physically hurt his wife purposely. It might be a consequence of taking virginity but it also might be an experience that only human women on this earth experience and not hur. I would assume there is no pain in heaven so i don't think we need to advocate for the hur women D
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PEace Sis SC
I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
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PEace Bro AlMarhom
So , Even in Heaven The Girls ( Virgins ) will still Be Play-Things for The Men ? are these Virgins Entitled to 70 Spunky Guys as well ? brickwall
Do we know that hur are only women? Could they possibly be men and women who are beautful and pure? Do you really want an ugly person to have sex with? Heaven appeals to what people in general are inherently attracted to. People are drawn to beauty. People also like purity. Who said they would be solely for sexual purposes? I don't think we have that much info in the ayat concerning the hur whether they would be just sexual... but in my opinion i think they would have a mouth and could speak to
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Peace Bro Raj
I agree with you that hur may very well be male and female. Even if it was only female i don't see the problem. I hate to be blunt again, but a woman usually wants an experienced man who'll know what works and what just hurts while a man usually wants a woman who has no experience. so in a way, i don't think its "unfair" or bad if the men are not virgins. although, this is all speculative since the hur can be female and male - which is what i tend to believe by the way.
Problem arises when influenced by west or others, we start thinking as they do, and we want to see Quran as we think.
Some things are universal and nobody understands why but it is. Please tell me which society does not value virginty at any level, west, east, north or south.
Man and Woman are equal so if they are equal, why men get beautiful ladies and Ladies will have to restrict to their 100 times used husbands and those who are not married will have to reamin without it even in paradise?
Where did you get this scenario from? This seems extra-quranic. Again nobody knows whether hur are only female or include hur men as well. Also, an inexperienced man (from what i hear) can't excite a woman as well as an experienced man. Or perhaps the male hurs will have the best of both worlds - pure and know what they're doing. Again we are entering a speculative area since there really isn't that much detail. But one thing we know for sure - men and women in heaven will be rewarded with what is best for each (whatever that best is).
"Thus shall it be. And We shall pair them with companions pure, most beautiful of eye."
Verses before and after this verse are describing the disbelievers and righteous, so Allah is offering to righteous mates virgin and beautiful to Men and Women no doubt about that, offcourse grapes as some of posters said is not appropriate translation, Opposite sex, living for ever and easy life can be an attraction but Grapes doesnot make any sense here.
Now pure I think is Virgin here?In these will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being will have touched then."
or
Their beautiful mates were never touched by any human or jinn.Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
So these mates are made for a specific purpose, to entertain righteous Men and Women.
Considering Human nature we want reward for any thing we do!
Allah considering the nature of Humans offers them Beautiful mates if they are righteous.So one thing is clear Allah offers reward for righteous in shape of Beautiful mates in addition to the earthly couples themselves.
This is what I understand from Quranic verses right or wrong; is open for discussion.
We are agreeing with each other and i didn't even realize it D Well said bro