My journey to islam
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peace zerda,
Welcome to the forum.
Most traditional Muslims have not read The Quran thus have very little idea about its content and message. That is why Quran based Islam feels foreign to them, hence reject it.
For study, check out this site
www.studyquran.org -
1618 "And if you count the blessings of God you will not be able to fathom them. God is Forgiving, Merciful."
There is so much hidden beauty in the Qur'an that we will always discover as we continue to read it, and it is sad that many Muslims do not read their own Qur'an or translations of it and cherish it, one and all. It should not be put away to Islamic scholars or mullahs or imams, but to every believer who submits to God!
We don't even need to have masjids, so as long as the heart is the temple of God Emself. )
When I first divulged myself in the Qur'an, I was upset at many of the verses that spoke about Hell, but when I looked beyond that, I saw verses that praised the beauty of Eir Creation, that everything was made by the word of God; Ey spoke the Word, and it existed! I saw verses of the beauty of Heaven, of the angels (Baha'is believe that people who exemplify wonderful and virtuous qualities are angels, even those who are deceased souls may be 'angels' who circle round Eir throne and proclaim that "there is none other God but Thee!".
I'm sure you will like this forum. I don't know much of Islamic principles, so you won't see me much, lol. But I am assured that God is certainly working in your life, and that Eir Truth will wholly pervade you in beauteous pearls of wisdom and love. )
Allah-u-Abha,
Kevyn. -
May I know what Eastern European country are you originally from Zerda?
If it is really small my guess is Lithuania, isnt it?
Anyway, welcome
nope, not lithuania, but pretty close. my country is even smaller Guess again!
Thanks to everyone for welcoming me to this forum.
Thank you, Wakas for the link. God Willing I'm going to check it out. The first impression was good. Seems to be a very useful site.
Peace for all,
sun
zerda -
Peace sister "Zerda"
Very nice article. But one thing disturbs me though. You wrote...Suddenly I became suspicious. It was somehow too good to be true. And still something did not make sense. All this 19 stuff, where everything was proved through mathematics. It just didn't feel right. I started to search for criticism about submission.org and I found pretty convincing arguments against it - claim that Quran has been changed over the time. And removing couple of verses from the Book - that definitely wasn't right. I was convinced by then that everything Quran says must be true. (Even though I could still not believe absolutely everything in it). And there was a promise, that God will protect it. So I wasn't that excited anymore.
JK- Mathematics is considered the purest form of scientific proof so i dont understand how this cannot be a proof in your sight? Feeling and emotions should not outweigh rationalism otherwise we get back to the other extreme. Regarding the Quran being changed if have also written articles on that. It's not the Quran whats been changed but you have to understand that the Quran is defined and resides inside mathematical boundaries. This means that the entire text is mathemtically composed and i must admit that whilst the verses and their numbering have now been almost fully proven by this code, individual words and letters still remain but they will be unravelled with time GOD Willingly. Now you say that GOD protected the Quran? Well how do you know that this very statement is from GOD and not from Satan? Right here comes the problem. In order for this statement to be true there needs to be a mechanism to show that the Quran is protected. Hence ppl did try to enter two verses to the Quran, namely 9128&129 but they didnt succeed. GOD exposed them as not belonging to the Quran by many outstanding mathemtical relations and they are ever increasing. People who make claims against code-19 in their haste tend to forget these simple logical points. I hope youll reconsider this. Moreover all versions of the Quran are NOT the same. There are many differnces btw Hafs and Warsh. Take a look for yourself
http//www.submission.org/quran/protect.html
http//www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html
GOD Bless! -
Peace sister "Zerda"
Very nice article. But one thing disturbs me though. You wrote
JK- Mathematics is considered the purest form of scientific proof so i dont understand how this cannot be a proof in your sight? Feeling and emotions should not outweigh rationalism otherwise we get back to the other extreme. Regarding the Quran being changed if have also written articles on that. It's not the Quran whats been changed but you have to understand that the Quran is defined and resides inside mathematical boundaries. This means that the entire text is mathemtically composed and i must admit that whilst the verses and their numbering have now been almost fully proven by this code, individual words and letters still remain but they will be unravelled with time GOD Willingly. Now you say that GOD protected the Quran? Well how do you know that this very statement is from GOD and not from Satan? Right here comes the problem. In order for this statement to be true there needs to be a mechanism to show that the Quran is protected. Hence ppl did try to enter two verses to the Quran, namely 9128&129 but they didnt succeed. GOD exposed them as not belonging to the Quran by many outstanding mathemtical relations and they are ever increasing. People who make claims against code-19 in their haste tend to forget these simple logical points. I hope youll reconsider this. Moreover all versions of the Quran are NOT the same. There are many differnces btw Hafs and Warsh. Take a look for yourself
http//www.submission.org/quran/protect.html
http//www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html
GOD Bless!I think I did not explain myself very clearly (the whole thing already came extremely long), so I explain what I mean. Be as it is with those verses in the end of sura 9. Believe as you believe, no problem.
What I thought about mathemathics - I am not going to say thare is no mathematical system in that Book. I noticed that there is. But I also noticed that after discovering this mathemathical compositon, some people got a bit carried away with it, trying to prove everything with it. What disturbed me in that site was explanations about praying (proof through mathematics).
For example their articles about proving the number of raka's for each prayer. Where in the qur'an is mentioned that every prayer has 2 or 4 or 3 raka's in the first place? Where do they take stuff like this? Please, bring out the verses, if you know any. I could not find! And to say that salat is preserved already from Abraham's time - in this case Quran ONLY is not enough, you still have to rely on human beings to teach you how to do it. That did not make any sense to me.
And differences between hafs and warsh.. well I have heard about that as well but I think the differences are only minor and do not really distort the message itself.
well, anyway, it's just my personal understanding and belief. It's normal for the people to have different understandings for the same thing - one day, God willing, we will all find out, but until that day the most important thing is to remember God and do good. peace
peace
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Peace sister "Zerda",
You raised some excllent points and ill definitely reply to them below.What I thought about mathemathics - I am not going to say thare is no mathematical system in that Book. I noticed that there is. But I also noticed that after discovering this mathemathical compositon, some people got a bit carried away with it, trying to prove everything with it. What disturbed me in that site was explanations about praying (proof through mathematics).
For example their articles about proving the number of raka's for each prayer. Where in the qur'an is mentioned that every prayer has 2 or 4 or 3 raka's in the first place? Where do they take stuff like this? Please, bring out the verses, if you know any. I could not find! And to say that salat is preserved already from Abraham's time - in this case Quran ONLY is not enough, you still have to rely on human beings to teach you how to do it. That did not make any sense to me.JK- I have to agree with you here although i once too though the mathematical code "integrated" into the five daily prayers rather fascinating but after a critical analysis with another brother we found out that the combinations were more or less possible with other five digit nos as well, thus falsifying the uniqueness. So yes as this happened and we as humans hae to go with what or current scientific knowledge supports. In that case GOD wont punish us even if it maybe proved wrong later. We did what we had to, using rational though and in the long run this approach has been shown to be successful. Personally i still pray in the traditional method until we can reach consensus of how "salat" is to be actually performed according to the Quran. Like i said wer in the progress.
And differences between hafs and warsh.. well I have heard about that as well but I think the differences are only minor and do not really distort the message itself.
JK- The message itself aint even distorted by 9128&129. Moreover this is not a good excuse since when GOD says that He protected the Quran and no falsehood can come at it, then even such minor diferences would violate this statement.
well, anyway, it's just my personal understanding and belief. It's normal for the people to have different understandings for the same thing - one day, God willing, we will all find out, but until that day the most important thing is to remember God and do good. peace D
peaceJK- I absolutely agree. GOD Bless!
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Peace Zerda,
Welcome to islam and the forum welcome and thank you for sharing your interesting story.
The God has promised to protect THE MESSAGE.
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (al-zikr), and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Whereas the 10 different versions of al-qur'aan (the great reading) have minor differences in some vowels or some letters, the basic message is the same and has indeed been preserved. "The reading" (qur'aan) might have minor differences, but "the message/reminder" (al-zikr) is the same. For further information please see the article at the following link
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
For more information on the 19 theory and a debate that was held on this forum about it, please see the following links
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/ayman19.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/debate19.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9721.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10068.0
May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.
Peace
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Peace bro "tanveer",
If there is no code in the Quran protecting the text, we might as well forget about it. Ive asked Ayman and the likes of him many times why theyd believe in the Quran and all i hear is because of the style and how it's written. This cannot be considered proof especially not in this era. Moreover how can anyone with commonsense claim tht such a message is protected and preserved. Tell me bro Tanveer, if you dont believe in code-19 HOW in GOD's name can you say that the Quran or it's message has been protected and preserved? Any religion can claim that its scripture is preserved. The question is "Wheres the beef"? We cannot be on one hand spending day after day rationally interpreting the Quran and on the other outright denying the only thing in todays era which proves its protection i.e. code-19. Honestly to me that is just as ironic as the Sunni/Shia folk claiming the Bible to be wrong yet following every nonsensical OT commandment which aint in Quran. GOD Bless! -
Peace bro Khizar,
The answer is staring in the face in the verse 4153 quoted in your signature !!
This issue has been discussed/debated many times on this forum in other threads and this thread is not appropriate for discussing this. As sis Zerda has rightly remarked that everyone is entitled to their own understandings and the most important thing is belief in The God and the Last Day and doing good deeds.
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Oh yeah, fudge Im good lol.
Anyway, the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear countries like Estonia and Latvia is lifeless people in thick fur coat walking in endless world of snow. Is that true? (Im sure it is not lol)lifeless people.. I'd like to see you in the temp -30C.. how much alive would you look ;D in the winter, especially in extreme cold (-20 and over), the best thing to do is to put your fur coat on and go. As quick as possible, better to use shortcuts, until you reach your destination. But even better to stay home. Roughly from November until March is the winter.
Spring is lovely (April-May). Lots of fresh air, the nature just wakes up from the winter, it is a special season. Makes you wonder about everything. The weather is quite sneaky (I don't know if you can say that about weather, but I'll explain). You think it's warm. You feel like wearing a t-shirt.. But the ground is still a bit icy. So in the shade it is quite cold. Very easy to catch cold.
Summers are nice and warm - +20C...+30C is normal temperature. So you can swim outdoors
I love the weather there as it varies a lot and just when you get bored of it, it changes. -
Peace bro "tanveer",
Peace bro Khizar,
The answer is staring in the face in the verse 4153 quoted in your signature !!
JK- 4153 does NOT BY ITSELF prove the Quran is from GOD by any means. It is because that very statement lies in between the mathematical bounds containing the Quran that it can be considered with high probability as being correct. GOD Bless!
This issue has been discussed/debated many times on this forum in other threads and this thread is not appropriate for discussing this. As sis Zerda has rightly remarked that everyone is entitled to their own understandings and the most important thing is belief in The God and the Last Day and doing good deeds.
JK- If it's just about believing in GOD then as i said why bother about the Quran. This forum mainly argues that the Quran is GOD's Word and ought to be taken as guidance. But to be so there must be something special abt it and you havnt told me what that should be in your opinion. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro Khizar,
What is special about al-qur'aan is ITS MESSAGE and not the actual physical words !! Refer the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13442.msg113166#msg113166
