Hoors?!?
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This is very important topic being discussed and as usual Muslims are confused on it each and every one has his own explanation.
To dig it out first of all we have to see what actually does the word Hoor as used in Quran means?
Looking at the Arab society at that time and all the related stories lead us to the word meaning "Beautiful women" with big eyes or white colour bla bla...
But then this is Quran we are talking about, which is word of God and without any error and Allah has to be just with men and women, so we can't just depend upon stories, we have to reserach it out.
In this quest some go as far as talking about cosmology and some restrict to heresay chains.Ahmad Bhagat wrote
Hoor is the plural of Horiah, Horiah is a beautiful woman
And your source please?
Some say
hryah (Arabic ‎ are described as "pure beings" or "companions pure" of paradise
The Arabic word "Hur", which occurs four times in the Qur?an, is plural of "Ahwar" for the masculine gender and "Huwra" (or houri) for the feminine. Thus, the huriyah may be male or female, either of which describes a person distinguished by "hawar", meaning "purity
So Mr. Bhagat even if you speak Arabic how are you so sure about your translation, offcourse we also want to know how the others are sure about theirs.Boost
i didn't read the whole thread but what is the big deal if the quran said you'll find virgins in heaven?
is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways.Well; we have to take this statement seriously.
Problem arises when influenced by west or others, we start thinking as they do, and we want to see Quran as we think.Problem is due to following assertion
Man and Woman are equal so if they are equal, why men get beautiful ladies and Ladies will have to restrict to their 100 times used husbands and those who are not married will have to reamin without it even in paradise?
Can any one quote to me a single verse in Quran which states Men and Women are equal? Be care ful!
But if we take the translation as of women and men both then
Major problem with the word Hoor is that
Why at the first place Allah offers Hoors whatever the translation to it be, because if we are able to understand that then only we can exactly come to know what a HOOR is?
"Thus shall it be. And We shall pair them with companions pure, most beautiful of eye."
Verses before and after this verse are describing the disbelievers and righteous, so Allah is offering to righteous mates virgin and beautiful to Men and Women no doubt about that, offcourse grapes as some of posters said is not appropriate translation, Opposite sex, living for ever and easy life can be an attraction but Grapes doesnot make any sense here.
Now pure I think is Virgin here?In these will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being will have touched then."
or
Their beautiful mates were never touched by any human or jinn.Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
So these mates are made for a specific purpose, to entertain righteous Men and Women.
Considering Human nature we want reward for any thing we do!
Allah considering the nature of Humans offers them Beautiful mates if they are righteous.So one thing is clear Allah offers reward for righteous in shape of Beautiful mates in addition to the earthly couples themselves.
This is what I understand from Quranic verses right or wrong; is open for discussion.
Al-mahroom wrote
So , Even in Heaven The Girls ( Virgins ) will still Be Play-Things for The Men ? are these Virgins Entitled to 70 Spunky Guys as well ?
First of all there is no such a thing as 70 or 72 mentioned in Quran, secondly let us consider that girls are play things here in this world and in future world, then what?..........
Please let me here your argument then what if girls are play things for men? -
Peace Boost, all
is that a bad thing? i think every culture in the entire world values virginity even if they behave in unchaste ways. i've heard many americans say sleeping with a virgin is a thousand times better than sleeping with a non-virgin. sorry for being blunt about it.
Sorry to tell you boost but a virgin is a virgin just once...if u get what i mean. And to my knowledge, 20% of virgins are not recognized as such this one time, which in some countries can be their death sentence. Virgins , or rather women which did not have children yet are narrower, which could be more pleasurable for a guys - especially if he's "small" >
This virgin stuff is just macho behaviour ; it's about taking something only for urself and even very often about giving pain at the same time. The most rewarding sexual encounter is one that is shared with love and mutual pleasure.
And IMO quran puts the acccent on chastity, which is not the same as virginity.
Just my 2 pence.
Elke
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Peace Sis Elke
the fact of the matter is, it is coveted by all cultures all over the world. You may think it's wrong, macho behavior, or mean but its a fact of life. For whatever reason, a pure virgin woman in terms of having sex is recognized to be a unique experience.
This virgin stuff is just macho behaviour ; it's about taking something only for urself
you say it as if its a bad thing. Most people, men and women would prefer to be the only one their partner has been with. It might be unfair to a person who was unchaste but purity is what is the hur's characteristic in the quran and being a virgin would be the ultimate purity. Someone who is completely untouched would be the ultimate in chastity. If chastity is what is emphasized in the quran as you say, then virginity would be the ultimate in chastity. Virginity does not necessarily have to equal an intact hymen. It's a state of mind where a person has never experienced a sexual encounter before. This is indeed the epitome of chastity. Of course, you can still be a chaste person who is sexually active with your husband. But the upmost level of chastity would be a pure virgin that was never touched before.
You mention also that it might have to do with a man who is "small", well, since it is heaven wouldn't something that conjures up a perfect experience without any feeling of insecruity be a good thing in heaven? Imgaine sex with no insecurities of how you measure up with your partner's past experiences!
even very often about giving pain at the same time.
I don't know any normal man who wants to physically hurt his wife purposely. It might be a consequence of taking virginity but it also might be an experience that only human women on this earth experience and not hur. I would assume there is no pain in heaven so i don't think we need to advocate for the hur women D
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PEace Sis SC
I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
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PEace Bro AlMarhom
So , Even in Heaven The Girls ( Virgins ) will still Be Play-Things for The Men ? are these Virgins Entitled to 70 Spunky Guys as well ? brickwall
Do we know that hur are only women? Could they possibly be men and women who are beautful and pure? Do you really want an ugly person to have sex with? Heaven appeals to what people in general are inherently attracted to. People are drawn to beauty. People also like purity. Who said they would be solely for sexual purposes? I don't think we have that much info in the ayat concerning the hur whether they would be just sexual... but in my opinion i think they would have a mouth and could speak to
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Peace Bro Raj
I agree with you that hur may very well be male and female. Even if it was only female i don't see the problem. I hate to be blunt again, but a woman usually wants an experienced man who'll know what works and what just hurts while a man usually wants a woman who has no experience. so in a way, i don't think its "unfair" or bad if the men are not virgins. although, this is all speculative since the hur can be female and male - which is what i tend to believe by the way.
Problem arises when influenced by west or others, we start thinking as they do, and we want to see Quran as we think.
Some things are universal and nobody understands why but it is. Please tell me which society does not value virginty at any level, west, east, north or south.
Man and Woman are equal so if they are equal, why men get beautiful ladies and Ladies will have to restrict to their 100 times used husbands and those who are not married will have to reamin without it even in paradise?
Where did you get this scenario from? This seems extra-quranic. Again nobody knows whether hur are only female or include hur men as well. Also, an inexperienced man (from what i hear) can't excite a woman as well as an experienced man. Or perhaps the male hurs will have the best of both worlds - pure and know what they're doing. Again we are entering a speculative area since there really isn't that much detail. But one thing we know for sure - men and women in heaven will be rewarded with what is best for each (whatever that best is).
"Thus shall it be. And We shall pair them with companions pure, most beautiful of eye."
Verses before and after this verse are describing the disbelievers and righteous, so Allah is offering to righteous mates virgin and beautiful to Men and Women no doubt about that, offcourse grapes as some of posters said is not appropriate translation, Opposite sex, living for ever and easy life can be an attraction but Grapes doesnot make any sense here.
Now pure I think is Virgin here?In these will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being will have touched then."
or
Their beautiful mates were never touched by any human or jinn.Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
So these mates are made for a specific purpose, to entertain righteous Men and Women.
Considering Human nature we want reward for any thing we do!
Allah considering the nature of Humans offers them Beautiful mates if they are righteous.So one thing is clear Allah offers reward for righteous in shape of Beautiful mates in addition to the earthly couples themselves.
This is what I understand from Quranic verses right or wrong; is open for discussion.
We are agreeing with each other and i didn't even realize it D Well said bro
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Boost wrote
We are agreeing with each other and i didn't even realize it Well said bro
Thanks! for your realization.
almarhom wrote
where do you think the Word Whore ( Ho ) Originated from ?
From some dirty minds, whose souls have been marhoom since long. brickwall
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Peace Sis Elke
the fact of the matter is, it is coveted by all cultures all over the world. You may think it's wrong, macho behavior, or mean but its a fact of life. For whatever reason, a pure virgin woman in terms of having sex is recognized to be a unique experience.
Peace sis, fact of life doesn't mean is its acceptable. And dont forget "if you follow the majority of those on earth..."
Now for a virgin to be a unique experience...how could it be "mechanically" otherwise.. ;D except for all those around here who make themsel a new viginity for 3000 dirhams...Now what we can agree on is that hoor is not clearly feminine, btw may be not even a person but rather a fruit (see luxenberg), and that the purity may be not "sexual" (imo it is absolutely not as i don't see the need for sex in heaven) For the rest of it ur are inbibed by your culture and what you want to believe, just as i am for sure so lakum deenokum wa lia deen
what kills me in this that women often put themselves down and accept this behaviour to dominate their lifes. A man should make love to a woman to share exactely this - love - and not to have a "unique experience". u're not a thingy made to be pleasurable to men. think about it
salaams, lk
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And your source please?
Well, you can ignore it because I won't provide sources, cheers
Some say
hryah (Arabic ‎ are described as "pure beings" or "companions pure" of paradiseand who are those some?
The Arabic word "Hur", which occurs four times in the Qur?an, is plural of "Ahwar" for the masculine gender and "Huwra" (or houri) for the feminine. Thus, the huriyah may be male or female, either of which describes a person distinguished by "hawar", meaning "purity
Sounds like Dr Naik explanation, which I said I also accept, did you read that or you are on a mission?
So Mr. Bhagat
My name is Bahgat
Ahmed Bahgat
even if you speak Arabic how are you so sure about your translation,
did I say I'm sure?
I have given two explanations and I said I accept both, did you read my comment?
here it is just in case you didn't see it
it sounds like the Hoor are very beautiful women that the Eyes of the men will go like WOW when they see them, you know sort of a shock to eyes and the ye will go really wide
at the end of the day they are beautiful women
some suggest that Hoor also applies to beautiful men as well, which is fine with me to also consider because it will not create a contradiction in the Quran under that meaning
Salam
See, or you want me to elaborate?
also why you talked about my nativity of araic speaking, are you doubting it?
offcourse we also want to know how the others are sure about theirs.
oh come on donlt lie and say I was sure, did you read my comments?, here it is again
it sounds like the Hoor are very beautiful women that the Eyes of the men will go like WOW when they see them, you know sort of a shock to eyes and the ye will go really wide
at the end of the day they are beautiful women
some suggest that Hoor also applies to beautiful men as well, which is fine with me to also consider because it will not create a contradiction in the Quran under that meaning
Salam
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except for all those around here who make themsel a new viginity for 3000 dirhams...
Whoa, who does that and can it be really done? More to the point, why would any woman want to go through that twice?
(imo it is absolutely not as i don't see the need for sex in heaven)
Tbh, I wouldn't mind. The other side seems kinda...boring and all peaceful. Where's the adrenalin? Where's the passion?
what kills me in this that women often put themselves down and accept this behaviour to dominate their lifes. A man should make love to a woman to share exactely this - love - and not to have a "unique experience". u're not a thingy made to be pleasurable to men. think about it
As usual, completely agree.
Peace
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PEace Sis
Peace sis, fact of life doesn't mean is its acceptable. And dont forget "if you follow the majority of those on earth..."
Why is it not acceptable? I don't understand why a sexual preference would be acceptable or not. I think it's more than just a majority. I need for you or anyone else to name just one culture that does not covet virginity.
Now for a virgin to be a unique experience...how could it be "mechanically" otherwise.. Grin except for all those around here who make themsel a new viginity for 3000 dirhams...
I would say virginity does not equal a hymen. A woman could possibly have never had any sexual experience before and still not be born with a hymen or damaged it thru some type of stretching or exercise. so that woman would be a virgin for all means and purposes. On the flip side of the coin, if a woman were to have sex and then reconstruct a hymen in surgery, even with a hymen she is no longer a virgin. Or a woman who had sex but her hymen did not break. She would also not be considered a virgin. So the issue is not a hymen or not. It's more of a level of purity.
Now what we can agree on is that hoor is not clearly feminine, btw may be not even a person but rather a fruit (see luxenberg)
A fruit? from what i know of "luxenberg" he doesn't believe the quran was written in arabic. he believes it was aramaic and people just added dots and accents later to make new words out of aramaic. quite honestly, way too many holes in such a theory. it would be very difficult to only add dots in order to make coherent verses in another language. there would be too many non-sensicle verses because its impossible to fit dots and come up with something that makes sense in another language.
and that the purity may be not "sexual" (imo it is absolutely not as i don't see the need for sex in heaven)
So let me get this straight... there will be gluttony, a feeding of all your heart's desires of the best food and wine and milk and honey and foods we never even saw before... but there won't be sex? if your argument is that heaven should not feed our human instinct impulses then wouldn't eating massive amounts of good food be out too? Wouldn't eating "grapes" be just as impulsive as having sex?
For the rest of it ur are inbibed by your culture and what you want to believe, just as i am for sure so lakum deenokum wa lia deen
i don't know if liking virgin people to have sex with is a cultural thing... like i said i think its universal.
hat kills me in this that women often put themselves down and accept this behaviour to dominate their lifes. A man should make love to a woman to share exactely this - love - and not to have a "unique experience". u're not a thingy made to be pleasurable to men. think about it
I think you're reading too far into the verse. The verse only says we'll have huris. we don't know how the huris will feel about doing or not doing something. but considering its heaven, i would say its a fair assumption to think that there won't be any pain. And i never said a man should not share his love with his wife... i think sex is a physical expression of love. where is the domination? where is the put down for women? i thought both men and women enjoy sex - not just a man. so if they both enjoy it i don't see one having fun and the other one putting herself down. The love a new husband shares with his new wife will result in penetration and the unique experience is just part of the package. I'm sure its something both will never forget.
Peace bro almarhom..
whore may sound like huri but that doesn't mean it came from the arabic word thats number 1. number 2, if the west calls a huri a whore i don't consider them to be my god. they can take their enlightening declarations and flush it down the toilet where it belongs. -
lol, James, you there ?
Yep i learnt it from James, he was a good pal of mine
cheers
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Peace all,
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but considering how one can be in heaven while his body rots into the soil, who-what-when-where-how is sex even a discussion? Will the heavely be lingering around gardens eating grapes, drinking wine, and having 72 virgins feeding their lust, with the sound of milky waterfalls in the background? This sounds more like an episode of "Rome" than the result of a lifetime of good deeds and compassion.
Heaven is an unkown, except as it being a reward. It has no equivalence in this life aside from the little bits of joy and bliss which we experience in our daily lives, say from eating something we love, or immersing ourselves in the company of good, pure people. Thus, the examples given in the qur'an are triggers to get a taste of the unfathomable grace that we can have bestowed upon us.
Perhaps the lack of a concrete description is to allow us to run wild with our imaginations and enjoy the possibilities. This can only be good as a motivator to do the right thing. So, if virgin sex for eternity floats your boat, then it's all good. But let's not try to rationalize it because we're opening up a pandora's box of infinite questions and possibilities - starting with can a guy even get privacy in heaven?
Peace,
Tay -
PEace Bro Tay
I agree with you that we are being speculative in alot of our posts. however, there is a word in the quran that means a pure beautiful woman. So i think one aspect of this all is that we don't know for sure exactly how heaven will be. it could be just the feeling of ecstasy or it could be very physical. The other aspect is actually disputing the word "huri" in the quran and changing it to a grape or water just because we don't want to talk about sex in heaven. The problem arises when huri turns into a grape and the boys who look like pearls are still boys. seems like a case of over-zealous feminism if you ask me.
As for the idea that our bodies don't come back to life, we are reminded that God will turn our bones back to a full body once again. i think this is mentioned many times in the quran. so believing that only our souls will rise to heaven would be an extra-quranic belief.
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Peace Boost,
If dead people's bones are rotting in the soil, and their souls are no longer in the body, then where are all those souls right now?
Check out 2154
And do not say of those who are killed in the sake of God that they are dead; no, they are alive but you do not perceive.How many have been killed in the sake of God? (rhetorical) I'll bet my car that if you find someone's grave who was killed in the sake of God, you'll also find their bones decaying. Yet God tells us they are alive, but we do not perceive. So the soul goes away but the body stays. How else can we be eternal sister?
3169
And do not think that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving a bounty.So a new bit of information they are alive with their Lord receiving bounty, yet their bodies are still here.
Peace,
Tay -
PEace bro
502 They found it strange that a warner from among them came to them! The disbelievers said, "This is really strange.
503 "After we die and become dust; this is impossible."
504 We are fully aware of anyone of them who gets consumed by the earth; we have an accurate record.
505 They rejected the truth when it came to them; they are utterly confused.
506 Have they not looked at the sky above them, and how we constructed it and adorned it, without a flaw?
507 And we created the earth, and scattered on it mountains, and grew in it all kinds of beautiful plants.
508 This is an enlightenment, and a reminder for every pious worshiper.
509 And we sent from the sky blessed water, to grow with it gardens and grains to be harvested.
5010 Tall date palms, with clustered fruit.
5011 Provisions for the people. And we revive with it dead lands; you are similarly resurrected.It seems we will be revived in a very physical way, the way dead lands are. My explanation for the martyrs is that their souls are not in a state of unconsciousness and are aware of their presence in heaven but their bodies will be revived with the rest of us on Judgment Day. Unless you have aother explanation for the above verses
so according to these verses (and there are many others) our flesh and bones will be returned to us, thus making physical sex in heaven very possible.