Hoors?!?
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except for all those around here who make themsel a new viginity for 3000 dirhams...
Whoa, who does that and can it be really done? More to the point, why would any woman want to go through that twice?
(imo it is absolutely not as i don't see the need for sex in heaven)
Tbh, I wouldn't mind. The other side seems kinda...boring and all peaceful. Where's the adrenalin? Where's the passion?
what kills me in this that women often put themselves down and accept this behaviour to dominate their lifes. A man should make love to a woman to share exactely this - love - and not to have a "unique experience". u're not a thingy made to be pleasurable to men. think about it
As usual, completely agree.
Peace
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PEace Sis
Peace sis, fact of life doesn't mean is its acceptable. And dont forget "if you follow the majority of those on earth..."
Why is it not acceptable? I don't understand why a sexual preference would be acceptable or not. I think it's more than just a majority. I need for you or anyone else to name just one culture that does not covet virginity.
Now for a virgin to be a unique experience...how could it be "mechanically" otherwise.. Grin except for all those around here who make themsel a new viginity for 3000 dirhams...
I would say virginity does not equal a hymen. A woman could possibly have never had any sexual experience before and still not be born with a hymen or damaged it thru some type of stretching or exercise. so that woman would be a virgin for all means and purposes. On the flip side of the coin, if a woman were to have sex and then reconstruct a hymen in surgery, even with a hymen she is no longer a virgin. Or a woman who had sex but her hymen did not break. She would also not be considered a virgin. So the issue is not a hymen or not. It's more of a level of purity.
Now what we can agree on is that hoor is not clearly feminine, btw may be not even a person but rather a fruit (see luxenberg)
A fruit? from what i know of "luxenberg" he doesn't believe the quran was written in arabic. he believes it was aramaic and people just added dots and accents later to make new words out of aramaic. quite honestly, way too many holes in such a theory. it would be very difficult to only add dots in order to make coherent verses in another language. there would be too many non-sensicle verses because its impossible to fit dots and come up with something that makes sense in another language.
and that the purity may be not "sexual" (imo it is absolutely not as i don't see the need for sex in heaven)
So let me get this straight... there will be gluttony, a feeding of all your heart's desires of the best food and wine and milk and honey and foods we never even saw before... but there won't be sex? if your argument is that heaven should not feed our human instinct impulses then wouldn't eating massive amounts of good food be out too? Wouldn't eating "grapes" be just as impulsive as having sex?
For the rest of it ur are inbibed by your culture and what you want to believe, just as i am for sure so lakum deenokum wa lia deen
i don't know if liking virgin people to have sex with is a cultural thing... like i said i think its universal.
hat kills me in this that women often put themselves down and accept this behaviour to dominate their lifes. A man should make love to a woman to share exactely this - love - and not to have a "unique experience". u're not a thingy made to be pleasurable to men. think about it
I think you're reading too far into the verse. The verse only says we'll have huris. we don't know how the huris will feel about doing or not doing something. but considering its heaven, i would say its a fair assumption to think that there won't be any pain. And i never said a man should not share his love with his wife... i think sex is a physical expression of love. where is the domination? where is the put down for women? i thought both men and women enjoy sex - not just a man. so if they both enjoy it i don't see one having fun and the other one putting herself down. The love a new husband shares with his new wife will result in penetration and the unique experience is just part of the package. I'm sure its something both will never forget.
Peace bro almarhom..
whore may sound like huri but that doesn't mean it came from the arabic word thats number 1. number 2, if the west calls a huri a whore i don't consider them to be my god. they can take their enlightening declarations and flush it down the toilet where it belongs. -
lol, James, you there ?
Yep i learnt it from James, he was a good pal of mine
cheers
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Peace all,
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but considering how one can be in heaven while his body rots into the soil, who-what-when-where-how is sex even a discussion? Will the heavely be lingering around gardens eating grapes, drinking wine, and having 72 virgins feeding their lust, with the sound of milky waterfalls in the background? This sounds more like an episode of "Rome" than the result of a lifetime of good deeds and compassion.
Heaven is an unkown, except as it being a reward. It has no equivalence in this life aside from the little bits of joy and bliss which we experience in our daily lives, say from eating something we love, or immersing ourselves in the company of good, pure people. Thus, the examples given in the qur'an are triggers to get a taste of the unfathomable grace that we can have bestowed upon us.
Perhaps the lack of a concrete description is to allow us to run wild with our imaginations and enjoy the possibilities. This can only be good as a motivator to do the right thing. So, if virgin sex for eternity floats your boat, then it's all good. But let's not try to rationalize it because we're opening up a pandora's box of infinite questions and possibilities - starting with can a guy even get privacy in heaven?
Peace,
Tay -
PEace Bro Tay
I agree with you that we are being speculative in alot of our posts. however, there is a word in the quran that means a pure beautiful woman. So i think one aspect of this all is that we don't know for sure exactly how heaven will be. it could be just the feeling of ecstasy or it could be very physical. The other aspect is actually disputing the word "huri" in the quran and changing it to a grape or water just because we don't want to talk about sex in heaven. The problem arises when huri turns into a grape and the boys who look like pearls are still boys. seems like a case of over-zealous feminism if you ask me.
As for the idea that our bodies don't come back to life, we are reminded that God will turn our bones back to a full body once again. i think this is mentioned many times in the quran. so believing that only our souls will rise to heaven would be an extra-quranic belief.
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Peace Boost,
If dead people's bones are rotting in the soil, and their souls are no longer in the body, then where are all those souls right now?
Check out 2154
And do not say of those who are killed in the sake of God that they are dead; no, they are alive but you do not perceive.How many have been killed in the sake of God? (rhetorical) I'll bet my car that if you find someone's grave who was killed in the sake of God, you'll also find their bones decaying. Yet God tells us they are alive, but we do not perceive. So the soul goes away but the body stays. How else can we be eternal sister?
3169
And do not think that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving a bounty.So a new bit of information they are alive with their Lord receiving bounty, yet their bodies are still here.
Peace,
Tay -
PEace bro
502 They found it strange that a warner from among them came to them! The disbelievers said, "This is really strange.
503 "After we die and become dust; this is impossible."
504 We are fully aware of anyone of them who gets consumed by the earth; we have an accurate record.
505 They rejected the truth when it came to them; they are utterly confused.
506 Have they not looked at the sky above them, and how we constructed it and adorned it, without a flaw?
507 And we created the earth, and scattered on it mountains, and grew in it all kinds of beautiful plants.
508 This is an enlightenment, and a reminder for every pious worshiper.
509 And we sent from the sky blessed water, to grow with it gardens and grains to be harvested.
5010 Tall date palms, with clustered fruit.
5011 Provisions for the people. And we revive with it dead lands; you are similarly resurrected.It seems we will be revived in a very physical way, the way dead lands are. My explanation for the martyrs is that their souls are not in a state of unconsciousness and are aware of their presence in heaven but their bodies will be revived with the rest of us on Judgment Day. Unless you have aother explanation for the above verses
so according to these verses (and there are many others) our flesh and bones will be returned to us, thus making physical sex in heaven very possible.
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Peace sis savage , all
Quote from elke
except for all those around here who make themsel a new viginity for 3000 dirhams...Whoa, who does that and can it be really done? More to the point, why would any woman want to go through that twice?
new virginities at that price are often bought around here. And its not that they want to do it, generally they have to...
quote from johnny
Peace,
I dont understand what people have against physical sex in heaven except if theyr influenced by a certain part of Christianity ofcourse. It is natural process which GOD created so wht is the problem? GOD Bless!The natural process has been created for reproduction purposes. So i don't see they need for it. Do you believe we'll still reproduce ? Even though i agree with nadia when she says
Tbh, I wouldn't mind. The other side seems kinda...boring and all peaceful. Where's the adrenalin? Where's the passion?
lk
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Peace Boost,
Let's backtrack to my first question and go from there, if you don't mind
If dead people's bones are rotting in the soil, and their souls are no longer in the body, then where are all those souls right now?Peace Bro Tay
Are souls physical? and do non-physical things need to be in a physical place? Where is patience? Where do you keep it when you don't use it?
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If dead people's bones are rotting in the soil, and their souls are no longer in the body, then where are all those souls right now?
peace
let me ask you this, do you ever go to sleep and when you wake up you feel like you slept like an hour but it's been like 7 or 8 hours?
it happens to me.i think every soul that is no longer on earth is in a place without time and are waiting but when they are resurrected together with us it will feel to all of us that we were dead and waiting for a little while. few hours, maybe a day.
23112 Say "How long have you stayed on Earth in terms of years?"
23113 They said "We remained for a day, or for part of a day. So ask those who kept count."
23114 He said "You have remained for very little, if you knew."even though the life feels long now, it won't on other side.
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Peace Boost, nerspi,
Are souls physical?
No.
and do non-physical things need to be in a physical place?
No. But they do need a hypothetical residence. Right now the soul is in the body. When the body dies, what happens to the soul? The question is straightforward.
Where is patience? Where do you keep it when you don't use it?
Patience is an attribute of consciousness. It does not equal consciousness. The example is flawed.
The soul animates the body. When the body is dead, the animating energy is no longer there. Do we need proof of this? How about cremated bodies whose ashes are strewn across the ocean? Is the soul cremated as well? Are there soul-crumbs strewn across the ocean also? Molecules of consciousness waiting for the last day?
If you're content in not answering this question, for yourself atleast, that's fine. I can live with it.
For me, it makes zero sense to think that our bodies will be brought back in the afterlife. By that time, the body will have been digested and excreted by worms, scattered across the planet in trees and such. Our bodies are physical expressions in this universe. They decay just like the entire universe decays. We, our souls, are eternal, transcendant of this physical world.
i think every soul that is no longer on earth is in a place without time and are waiting but when they are resurrected together with us it will feel to all of us that we were dead and waiting for a little while. few hours, maybe a day.
I think that's plausible. Certainly, time & space are phenomena of this existence. And your example of sleeping is proof positive of that separation between body and soul, between the finite and the infinite. Bottom line, no one knows what will happen to our souls when we die. But we do know what happens to our bodies. That's all I'm saying.
Peace,.
Tay -
Peace "Elke",
The natural process has been created for reproduction purposes. So i don't see they need for it. Do you believe we'll still reproduce ? Even though i agree with nadia when she says
lk
JK- This is NOT COMPLETELY TRUE for humans and even some other species. In humans sex is also a means of pleasure and get closer to each other. GOD Bless!
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Peace "tay",
For me, it makes zero sense to think that our bodies will be brought back in the afterlife. By that time, the body will have been digested and excreted by worms, scattered across the planet in trees and such. Our bodies are physical expressions in this universe. They decay just like the entire universe decays. We, our souls, are eternal, transcendant of this physical world.
JK- The Quran states that GOD will resurect the dead on the DOJ so it doesnt matter how far the molecules are scattered, GOD can certainly bring them together just as he brought all the initially far scattered elementary particles in the early stages of the big bang to self assemble over time. GOD Bless!
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Peace Bro Tay
ok so your soul is in your body but where in the body? i really don't see the soul as something physical where there needs to be a specific place for it to go. I think the soul is a very abstract thing. You can't point to something intangible and have to "put it somewhere".
so where do souls go? we don't know that answer but we do know that the quran explains that we will be resurrected. If you read the set of verses i posted earlier, you can see an example of that. so where a soul goes, if it has to go anywhere, is very speculative.
Wherever it goes or doesn't go doesn't change the fact that our bodies will be resurrected. You asked how does God change ashes or dust into a whole person again ... well how were you created? How was anything created? And do you have to know how its done for it to be possible? Anyway, the quran does give us a hint of how it would be done - with water, the way dead lands are brought to fruition again.
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Peace Bro Johnny, Sis Elke,
I agree. Sex is alot more than reproduction for humans.
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Peace sister,
ok so your soul is in your body but where in the body? i really don't see the soul as something physical where there needs to be a specific place for it to go. I think the soul is a very abstract thing. You can't point to something intangible and have to "put it somewhere".
I agree - there is no physical place. This is what I've been failing in trying to convey. If you can see that we have a soul, and you can see that the body dies, and you can fathom that the soul, once the body is dead, no longer resides in the body...then you understand the resurrection we're being taught about in the qur'an. It is not a physical resurrection. The physical is finite. This life is temporary. We perceive it with the temporary vehicle we call a body.
so where do souls go? we don't know that answer but we do know that the quran explains that we will be resurrected. If you read the set of verses i posted earlier, you can see an example of that. so where a soul goes, if it has to go anywhere, is very speculative.
Is it speculative? Perhaps the answer is staring us in the face...
3668 And for whomever We grant a long life, We weaken him in body. Do they not understand?
2281 And be aware of a Day when you will be returned to God then every soul will be paid what it has earned, they will not be wronged.Perhaps the "Day" isn't some moment in the distant (or not too distant) future, but the moment you die. Perhaps you're judged immediately.
Wherever it goes or doesn't go doesn't change the fact that our bodies will be resurrected. You asked how does God change ashes or dust into a whole person again ... well how were you created? How was anything created? And do you have to know how its done for it to be possible? Anyway, the quran does give us a hint of how it would be done - with water, the way dead lands are brought to fruition again.
I'm not asking how it can be done. God can do whatever God wills. But God gave us brains and asks us to witness nature in our path to understanding. In nature, everything decays and transforms. Life is a constant metamorphasis. Is that not a key for us to understand?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay",
Peace jonny,
God can do anything!
Why bother analyzing anything, then?
Let's forget about the minds we've been given and just sit around and pray.Peace,
TayJK- Did i say tht? Plz dont misnterpret my statements. Ofcourse GOD would have a mechanism of resurrection which is documented in the Quran and thts why i believe its true with high probability. This infact is a perfect example of why indirect statement proof is required. GOD Bless!