Hoors?!?
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Peace "Elke",
The natural process has been created for reproduction purposes. So i don't see they need for it. Do you believe we'll still reproduce ? Even though i agree with nadia when she says
lk
JK- This is NOT COMPLETELY TRUE for humans and even some other species. In humans sex is also a means of pleasure and get closer to each other. GOD Bless!
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Peace "tay",
For me, it makes zero sense to think that our bodies will be brought back in the afterlife. By that time, the body will have been digested and excreted by worms, scattered across the planet in trees and such. Our bodies are physical expressions in this universe. They decay just like the entire universe decays. We, our souls, are eternal, transcendant of this physical world.
JK- The Quran states that GOD will resurect the dead on the DOJ so it doesnt matter how far the molecules are scattered, GOD can certainly bring them together just as he brought all the initially far scattered elementary particles in the early stages of the big bang to self assemble over time. GOD Bless!
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Peace Bro Tay
ok so your soul is in your body but where in the body? i really don't see the soul as something physical where there needs to be a specific place for it to go. I think the soul is a very abstract thing. You can't point to something intangible and have to "put it somewhere".
so where do souls go? we don't know that answer but we do know that the quran explains that we will be resurrected. If you read the set of verses i posted earlier, you can see an example of that. so where a soul goes, if it has to go anywhere, is very speculative.
Wherever it goes or doesn't go doesn't change the fact that our bodies will be resurrected. You asked how does God change ashes or dust into a whole person again ... well how were you created? How was anything created? And do you have to know how its done for it to be possible? Anyway, the quran does give us a hint of how it would be done - with water, the way dead lands are brought to fruition again.
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Peace Bro Johnny, Sis Elke,
I agree. Sex is alot more than reproduction for humans.
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Peace sister,
ok so your soul is in your body but where in the body? i really don't see the soul as something physical where there needs to be a specific place for it to go. I think the soul is a very abstract thing. You can't point to something intangible and have to "put it somewhere".
I agree - there is no physical place. This is what I've been failing in trying to convey. If you can see that we have a soul, and you can see that the body dies, and you can fathom that the soul, once the body is dead, no longer resides in the body...then you understand the resurrection we're being taught about in the qur'an. It is not a physical resurrection. The physical is finite. This life is temporary. We perceive it with the temporary vehicle we call a body.
so where do souls go? we don't know that answer but we do know that the quran explains that we will be resurrected. If you read the set of verses i posted earlier, you can see an example of that. so where a soul goes, if it has to go anywhere, is very speculative.
Is it speculative? Perhaps the answer is staring us in the face...
3668 And for whomever We grant a long life, We weaken him in body. Do they not understand?
2281 And be aware of a Day when you will be returned to God then every soul will be paid what it has earned, they will not be wronged.Perhaps the "Day" isn't some moment in the distant (or not too distant) future, but the moment you die. Perhaps you're judged immediately.
Wherever it goes or doesn't go doesn't change the fact that our bodies will be resurrected. You asked how does God change ashes or dust into a whole person again ... well how were you created? How was anything created? And do you have to know how its done for it to be possible? Anyway, the quran does give us a hint of how it would be done - with water, the way dead lands are brought to fruition again.
I'm not asking how it can be done. God can do whatever God wills. But God gave us brains and asks us to witness nature in our path to understanding. In nature, everything decays and transforms. Life is a constant metamorphasis. Is that not a key for us to understand?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay",
Peace jonny,
God can do anything!
Why bother analyzing anything, then?
Let's forget about the minds we've been given and just sit around and pray.Peace,
TayJK- Did i say tht? Plz dont misnterpret my statements. Ofcourse GOD would have a mechanism of resurrection which is documented in the Quran and thts why i believe its true with high probability. This infact is a perfect example of why indirect statement proof is required. GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
It seems I'm always misinterpreting you. My apologies if what's in bold is not what you meant...
The Quran states that GOD will resurect the dead on the DOJ so it doesnt matter how far the molecules are scattered, GOD can certainly bring them together just as he brought all the initially far scattered elementary particles in the early stages of the big bang to self assemble over time.
Moving on, if our resurrection will be just as the big bang (am I misinterpreting?), then we'd go through the same evolutionary process and end up in the same place - finite physical beings with eternal souls. That's not quite what the qur'an is telling us.
This infact is a perfect example of why indirect statement proof is required.
If "indirect statement proof" leads one to avoid reading between the lines, then I'm not so sure I'd be professing it. I see you still insist on bringing 19 into every discussion.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay, all,
For me, it makes zero sense to think that our bodies will be brought back in the afterlife.
3678 And he puts forth an example for Us, while forgetting his own creation! He says "Who can resurrect the bones while they are dust?"
3679 Say "The One who made them in the first place will resurrect them. He is fully aware of every creation.""Them" in above verse = "bones"; this proves physical resurrection.
359 And God is the One who sends the winds so it stirs up a cloud, then We drive it to a town that is dead, and We revive with it the land after it had died. Such is the resurrection.
Shows physical resurrection.
2260 And Abraham said "My Lord, show me how you resurrect the dead." He said "Do you not already believe?" He said "I do, but it is so my heart can be relieved." He said "Choose four birds, then cut them, then place parts of the birds on each mountain, then call them to you; they will come racing towards you. And know that God is Noble, Wise."
429 Or have they taken allies besides Him? But God is the ally, and He is the One who resurrects the dead, and He is able to do all things.
3612 It is indeed Us who resurrect the dead, and We record what they have done and left behind. And everything We have counted in a clear ledger.
7540 Is One as such then not able to resurrect the dead?
636 Only those who listen will respond. As for the dead, God will resurrect them, then to Him they will return.
Soul is not dead. Resurrection of the dead is a physical resurrection.
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It all comes together, in the light of a lenghty look at the abrahamic religions.
Adam & Eva = Man & Partner
Eva.. Hawra.. Huri.
Thus the meaning is, in heaven you will get clean partners.
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Peace "tay",
Peace jonny,
It seems I'm always misinterpreting you. My apologies if what's in bold is not what you meant...
JK- No problem. Btw i recognized the stament i made regarding "GOD can do everything". I agree a standalone statement like tht is not right.
Moving on, if our resurrection will be just as the big bang (am I misinterpreting?), then we'd go through the same evolutionary process and end up in the same place - finite physical beings with eternal souls. That's not quite what the qur'an is telling us.
JK- Yes we probably would but i believe the evolutinary processes would be quicker, relative to us that is, so as our bodies would soon attain perfection and we wont have the aging and other degenerating genes in us allowing our bodies to live for ever. Since itll be an entire new universe the bonding of elementary particles could also be extremely stable.
If "indirect statement proof" leads one to avoid reading between the lines, then I'm not so sure I'd be professing it. I see you still insist on bringing 19 into every discussion.
Peace,
TayJK- I agree reading between the lines is very important and i did that. Yet my understanding of the verses relating to this context is that GOD will resurect our bodies. GOD Bless!
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Peace Tay,
Are you sure "them" refers to bones, and not to the people who were asking about the bones?
Yes I am sure. It is not the "people" asking the question but a "person" as apparent from "he says"
3678 And he puts forth an example for Us, while forgetting his own creation! He says "Who can resurrect the bones while they are dust?"
3679 Say "The One who made them in the first place will resurrect them. He is fully aware of every creation.""Them" could only be referring to "bones" here and not to "he", as is also apparent by "they" after the "bones".
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Peace Tanveer,
It is not the "people" asking the question but a "person" as apparent from "he says"
I disagree. The "person" is described as "man" in 3677. Clearly the context means "man" is representative of a larger group...
3676 So do not be saddened by what they say. We are fully aware of what they conceal and what they declare.
3677 Has man not seen that We have created him from a drop, that he would become a clear enemy?Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay,
The question is "Who can resurrect the bones while they are dust?", and the answer is "The One who made them in the first place will resurrect them". This makes it clear that "them" is referring to "bones".
If it was referring to man, the question would be "Who can resurrect the bones while we are dust" or "Who can resurrect the bones while I am dust". "They" in the question is referring to "bones" and cannot be referring to "man" as "man" is asking the question, and in order to refer to "man", the word used should have been "we are dust" or "I am dust", and "they" would refer to someone other than "man" (If man says "while they are dust" then "they" would refer to someone other than man, and CANNOT refer to man, subsequently the "them" in the answer refers to "they". Grammatically, the closest to "they" in the question is "bones" and can refer only to "bones" in such a sentence). Also "man" is directly asking God the question and if God was referring to man then the answer cannot be "them" but "him" or "you". Thus the answer would be "The one who made "him"/"you" in the first place.......
Also in 3677, man is referred to as "he" and "him", why change suddenly to "they" in next verse ? which linguistically does not make any sense
3677 Has man not seen that We have created him from a drop, that he would become a clear enemy?
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Peace Tanveer,
I admit the argument is strong, but it doesn't really make sense in the context. Seems to me, "man" is doubting the afterlife, which is an important message. Whether or not bones will resurface seems petty. I'll have another look at the arabic and get back on this. Thanks for the trigger and the steady hand, as always
Peace,
Tay -
Elke
Now what we can agree on is that hoor is not clearly feminine, btw may be not even a person but rather a fruit (see luxenberg), and that the purity may be not "sexual" (imo it is absolutely not as i don't see the need for sex in heaven)
Boost
A fruit? from what i know of "luxenberg" he doesn't believe the quran was written in arabic.
oNeed not to say any more, if it is true. It is not understandable that if one agrees, that Allah offers grapes for some good deeds, then why not he can offer beautiful companions?
Elke
what kills me in this that women often put themselves down and accept this behaviour to dominate their lifes. A man should make love to a woman to share exactely this - love - and not to have a "unique experience". u're not a thingy made to be pleasurable to men. think about it
Oh! so here is the problem then, like most of us; slaves of our own thoughts. You think that this is sort of let down for women?
When a man and women have sex by will they both enjoy and have pleasure, and Quran is talking about both men and women, therefore no question arises of only one side having pleasure and other being a thingy.
Secondly let us consider that Hoors means beautiful women(only) then would you leave Islam??
Each and every thing made by Allah is well planned and systematic according to what I understand.Boost
Peace bro almarhom..
whore may sound like huri but that doesn't mean it came from the arabic word thats number 1. number 2, if the west calls a huri a whore i don't consider them to be my god. they can take their enlightening declarations and flush it down the toilet where it belongs.
bravo bravo -
Tay
Peace all,
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but considering how one can be in heaven while his body rots into the soil, who-what-when-where-how is sex even a discussion? Will the heavely be lingering around gardens eating grapes, drinking wine, and having 72 virgins feeding their lust, with the sound of milky waterfalls in the background? This sounds more like an episode of "Rome" than the result of a lifetime of good deeds and compassion
No you have not burst anyone's bubble.
There is no such a thing as 72 virgins mentioned in Quran.What then you think should be the result of a lifetime good deeds?? (that will be interesting to read).
Surah luqman
'Ma khalakakum wa ma basukum illa ka nafsin wahidin' -- your first creation and your second creation will be identical.Nice explanation by Mr. Tanveer.