Relationships
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peace
What is the difference between two people living together, having children, sharing responsibities, living happy lives, and two people who are married and living together, having children, sharing responsibilities, living happy lives?
The physical act of marriage doesn't do anything.
The only reason that what the article in Tanveer's post says is true is because in our society, marriage = all the things mentioned above. When people want to live togther and raise a family, they go through a ritual and sign a legal contract. WHen people aren't that into living together and raising a family, they don't do it.
So it has nothing to do with marriage itself, but society's outlook on the ritual of marriage.So in reality, being married or unmarried makes no real difference.
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You can get a person pregnant even when you are married. It is not logical to say because you are not married you will not take responibility for the results of your choices, nor to say that because you are not married you feel no 'real' emotions for that person.
Come on man, lets be realistic. Maybe you yourself are a responsible person that if one day your girlfriend got pregnant you would not leave her and take full responsibility (I assume you are into sex outside marriage), but you need to remember that not EVERYONE on this planet is like you. I'm sure you know better than that. There are countless cases in which the man refuses to take responsibility after getting his partner pregnant. This is especially common in teen pregnancy cases.
Speaking of the difference of married couple and unmarried couple, if there really was no difference then why not just get married? Not only it could make the relationship felt more special, it could also motivate the couple to care even more for their family.
Peace,
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Peace all,
I see that some people don't want to accept scientific facts, let alone God's words. Nevertheless, some more scientific facts that refute the "cohabitation" camp
"Cohabitation typically does not bring the benefits?in physical health, wealth, and emotional wellbeing?that marriage does. In terms of these benefits cohabitants in the United States more closely resemble singles than married couples. This is due, in part, to the fact that cohabitants tend not to be as committed as married couples, and they are more oriented toward their own personal autonomy and less to the wellbeing of their partner."
REFERENCES
Stephen L. Nock, "A Comparison of Marriages and Cohabiting Relationships" Journal of Family Issues 16-1 (1995) 53-76; Amy Mehraban Pienta, et. al., "Health Consequences of Marriage for the Retirement Years" Journal of Family Issues 21-5 (2000)559-586; Susan L. Brown, "The Effect of Union Type on Psychological Well-Being Depression Among Cohabitors versus Marrieds" Journal of Health and Social Behavior 41(2000)241-255; Susan L. Brown and Alan Booth, "Cohabitation Versus Marriage A Comparison of Relationship Quality" Journal of Marriage and the Family 58 (1996)668-678.
"Contrary to the proposition that for men "a marriage license is a hitting license," a large body of research shows that being unmarried?and especially living with a man outside of marriage?is associated with a considerably higher risk of domestic violence for women. Women are less likely to marry and more likely to divorce a man who is violent. Yet it is probably also the case that married men are less likely to commit domestic violence because they are more invested in their wives? wellbeing, and more integrated into the extended family and community. These social forces seem to help check men?s violent behavior."
REFERENCES
Jan E. Stets, "Cohabiting and Marital Aggression The Role of Social Isolation" Journal of Marriage and the Family 53 (1991)669-680; Richard J. Gelles, Intimate Violence in Families, 3rd ed. (Thousand Oaks, CA 1997); Linda J. Waite and Maggie Gallagher, The Case for Marriage (New York Doubleday, 2000) Ch. 11
The following from this website
http//www.vifamily.ca/library/cft/cohabitation.html
Are marriage and cohabitation equivalent?
Many people have come to believe that marriage is merely a matter of lifestyle choice and has few overall consequences or advantages over cohabitation. The two are equivalent. The research literature does not support this view at this point. Rather, studies indicate that marriage, particularly a good and equitable one, carries many benefits for the spouses. It is above all highly beneficial to children, whether it is equitable or not between the parents.
Among those who adhere to the equivalency of various types of family structure for children's well-being, there is a school of thought whose proponents argue that what is important for children's outcomes and well-being is not family structure (one versus two parents, marriage versus cohabitation), but healthy family processes. The research certainly supports the notion that healthy family dynamics are important predictors of children's positive outcomes regardless of their parents' marital status. But the fact remains that healthy family dynamics are more likely to occur in two-parent families of the married type, as are positive child outcomes. The reason is that, on average, these families experience more stability, fewer stressors, and a greater level of long-term commitment on the part of the adults involved.
However functional and rewarding cohabitation is for many adults, its benefits have yet to be substantiated by research. This is especially so for children and for society at large. Interestingly enough, cohabitation may be more functional and equitable for older adults who have already been married at least once. Yet, currently, older adults are least likely to enter into such relationships because of matters of morality and also because of the imbalance in the sex ratio at older ages, fewer men are available.
Another indicator of the lack of equivalency of cohabitation with marriage resides in the fact that, in many countries, same-sex couples are seeking the right to be married. Obviously, they do not believe that cohabitation or even a registered partnership is as beneficial as marriage. Many such couples call these options "second best" (Ambert, 2005b).
The evidence at this point does not indicate that young women gain as much from cohabitation as from marriage, unless their partner is committed to marry them if they so want. The "sexual revolution" should not be taken as synonymous with "women's liberation" and women's best interest. While there is some good in the sexual revolution, it has not completely eliminated the double standard. It still has benefited males more than females in the sense that it has made more women available to men sexually?and cohabitation has been one avenue through which this has occurred. Indeed, as we have seen earlier, despite the apparent popularity of cohabitation among young people, women are less interested than men in this lifestyle (Milan, 2003). As well my observations tell me that too many women are heartbroken as a result of having experienced the dissolution of their cohabitation. Terminating a dating relationship seems less traumatic. Furthermore, on average, cohabitation also carries risks for a mother who is single. For instance, her partner may not be committed to her children and one can wonder what happens to them when the union breaks up?
When mothers and fathers have pre-teens and teenagers, repeated episodes of cohabitation are problematic on many fronts. In my fieldwork, I have encountered many mothers whose children were fully aware of their sex lives and who prematurely followed their example, at times with unfortunate results (pregnancies, STDs, loss of interest in school, accompanied delinquency, and disengagement from family life). "If you're doing it, you have no right to tell me I can't," was a reply some of these mothers received when trying to monitor their adolescents' dating. Furthermore, we know that an insecure union places a woman through a great deal of emotional turmoil, which then strains her parenting ability.
Overall, my concerns with cohabitation reside in its frequent lack of commitment on the part of at least one partner. Hence cohabitation is a more insecure and potentially hurtful situation than marriage is, even considering the current divorce rate. Were cohabitation to become more like marriage, I am certain that my opinion would change accordingly. As Smock (2004871) points out, "Whether cohabitation becomes more like marriage or marriage more like cohabitation, something like marriage is here to stay."
(Emphasis in above article is mine)
A power point presentation
http//www2.gsu.edu/~wwwche/cohabitation.ppt
Another article
http//marriageandfamilies.byu.edu/issues/2001/January/cohabitation.htm
When people continue to reject scientifically proven facts based on their personal opinions, whims, and desires without any solid scientific or factual basis, then any further discussion with them becomes meaningless. This also applies to those who make some comments and when their comments/points are answered and refuted, they make the same or irrelevent comments again and/or make wrong analogies and/or ask questions which have already been answered. Perhaps they don't read the full reply, or perhaps they don't understand what a controlled scientific study is, in which all variables are controlled and are thus not the cause of the outcome of the study except the variable in question.
brickwall brickwall brickwall elektro
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What I meant by ?what Tanveer said? is what he quoted what he typed in his box, be it Quotes or his own words.
Anyway why would there be such a thing as ?marriage? if there is no logic behind it? Marriage isn?t about signing a paper it?s more than that. Besides in Islam do you need to sign a paper to be married? As far as I know, no you don?t.
Do you think having sex before marriage is being closer to following the guide or do you think getting married is closer?
Also khalil, if your body happens to be unhealthy without your knowledge for whatever reason, and hers is and then you get sick and then for some reason you break up and then you have another new fond lover and the sickness spreads? Then what? It was perfectly innocent wasn?t it.
Where did the term bastard come from? Why do people till now take offense to that word? Most people aren?t able to take the responsibility of a child outside wedlock in my opinion ?marriage? makes you take responsibility. And as jankren mentioned not all people are responsible, lots of people are used and dumped. Why are there so many single mothers out there this day in ages I wonder.. hmm.
?In all relationships there is a certain level of trust needed for them to function. If you can not trust a person when you are not married will you trust them more once you are married??
That?s why you don?t marry them. I know this girl she intentionally had sex with a guy she told him she had protection but she didn?t. He believed her he trusted her. She wanted to get pregnant so that he wouldn?t leave her. Thankfully she didn?t get pregnant but do you understand what I mean? People do things to their advantage or disadvantage.
"That is certainly wonderful, to have constant sex with someone you care for, no ?"
No not if you?re told to stay away from such acts before marriage (according to your belief anyway). What do you think fornication is? Do you think is ok? Do you think Islam promotes fornication?
"So then your reason for marriage is that you know that you are garunteed sex, that then is choosing out of fear. And trying to control our desires is also choosing out of fear, just because you allow yourself to feel a certain way does not mean you will choose to act on that feeling. "
Marriage is more than sex, but yes it guarantees you sex. And it is not choosing out of fear it is choice out of decency I would say. I could have easily had sex by now, but no I choose not to have sex until I get married that?s my personal choice and I believe this is the right way. It has nothing to do with fear in my opinion to have sex with people for pleasure is indecent even out of love or care.
I?ve liked many people in my past even loved, how much I would have regretted my life if I had sex with them.At the end of the day you have a brain, I have a brain. You have kowledge, you gain knowledge. You follow what you believe is right according to your beleifs and one day we will get judged and that's life )
Asalamu alaikum
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What is the difference between two people living together, having children, sharing responsibities, living happy lives, and two people who are married and living together, having children, sharing responsibilities, living happy lives?
Nothing. There is no difference. So why do it? Why not marry but live together?
People look at living together, cohabitation, chilling out, call it what you want as an alternative man made SYSTEM to Gods perfect SYSTEM of marriage. Its more a rejection of something established and proven (marriage) rather than an actual need to change things or way of living.
Basically it's the same crap as with other human systems - monarchy, comunism, capitalism.... -
Speaking of marriage, I remember what bro Ahmed Bagat once said. One of the main purposes of marriage is not the signing of contract on a piece of paper (Marriages do not really require official paper actually), instead it is to let other people know that A&B have made an oath to be together and they are responsible for the well-being of one another. Therefore, as a result pressure from society would help to force the couple to be faithful to each other. You know for example when you are married, it is harder for you to follow your desire and make a move on C because C, D, and E know that you are already married to B. But of course some women find it challenging to take away other peoples husbands jk.
Peace,
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Peace Jankren,
Come on man, lets be realistic. Maybe you yourself are a responsible person that if one day your girlfriend got pregnant you would not leave her and take full responsibility (I assume you are into sex outside marriage), but you need to remember that not EVERYONE on this planet is like you. I'm sure you know better than that. There are countless cases in which the man refuses to take responsibility after getting his partner pregnant. This is especially common in teen pregnancy cases.
That is not applicable to everyone. And what will stop you from abondoning your responsibilities once your married, and how is that a healthy relationship?
Speaking of the difference of married couple and unmarried couple, if there really was no difference then why not just get married? Not only it could make the relationship felt more special, it could also motivate the couple to care even more for their family.
Not everyone stays together forever, and that does not make relationships that are not forever any less meaningfull. That in its self is a good reason to not get married. But I am not advocating either position. I am saying, sex outside of marriage, really, isn't something to tripp about.
peace,
Khalil -
Peace Tanveer,
I see that some people don't want to accept scientific facts, let alone God's words. Nevertheless, some more scientific facts that refute the "cohabitation" campWhen people continue to reject scientifically proven facts based on their personal opinions, whims, and desires without any solid scientific or factual basis, then any further discussion with them becomes meaningless. This also applies to those who make some comments and when their comments/points are answered and refuted, they make the same or irrelevent comments again and/or make wrong analogies and/or ask questions which have already been answered. Perhaps they don't read the full reply, or perhaps they don't understand what a controlled scientific study is, in which all variables are controlled and are thus not the cause of the outcome of the study except the variable in question.
brickwall brickwall brickwall elektro
Tanveer do you even have an opinion of your own ? Do you think for yourself?
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Peace Sarah
Anyway why would there be such a thing as ?marriage? if there is no logic behind it?
I am not saying that there is nothing to marriage. I am saying that sex outside of marriage is not detrimental. Logically, sex and relationships existed before marriage.
Do you think having sex before marriage is being closer to following the guide or do you think getting married is closer?
I think neither is closer. I think that that is a personal matter for ones self to decide, for some yes for some no. It is not a rule that is concrete.
Also khalil, if your body happens to be unhealthy without your knowledge for whatever reason, and hers is and then you get sick and then for some reason you break up and then you have another new fond lover and the sickness spreads? Then what? It was perfectly innocent wasn?t it.
My best advice would be for people to become responsible for their health. If the persons body has accumulated toxicity then the conditions are right for a specific microbe to breed and break down the degenerative subst. Remove the toxicity and you remove the need for the microbe to breed. The word contagious is a misnomer, something is only contagious when the environment is the right environment for the substance. It is a natural process of your cells to turn into bacteria, or parasites and produce viruses. (google Pleomorphism)
Where did the term bastard come from?
I am not sure. But does it matter if someone calls you a bastard? They are only other peoples judgements of you.
Why do people till now take offense to that word?
Because of societies perspective of marraige and child rearing.
Most people aren?t able to take the responsibility of a child outside wedlock in my opinion ?marriage? makes you take responsibility.
Sex is not just for making babies. There is a great pleasure from it, and that pleasure is a gift from God, why turn your back on Gods gifts? You can experience pleasure with someone you love.
And as jankren mentioned not all people are responsible, lots of people are used and dumped. Why are there so many single mothers out there this day in ages I wonder.. hmm.
That is a deeper wound than lack of marriage.
That?s why you don?t marry them. I know this girl she intentionally had sex with a guy she told him she had protection but she didn?t. He believed her he trusted her. She wanted to get pregnant so that he wouldn?t leave her. Thankfully she didn?t get pregnant but do you understand what I mean? People do things to their advantage or disadvantage.
People do do things to take advantage of others, I am not nieve of that. I feel if you are going to have sex with someone you are going to have to give them trust regardless.
No not if you?re told to stay away from such acts before marriage (according to your belief anyway).
Just because someone tells you to do something doesn't mean you have to do that. Martin Luther King asked a good question "Whats in your heart this morning" shouldn't that be where the decision comes from, you, your heart, within?
What do you think fornication is?
Fornication is sex outside of marriage.
Do you think is ok?
I am fine with people having sex inside or outside of marriage
Do you think Islam promotes fornication?
Islam to me is different than the quran, the quran talks about islam but it is not islam.
I think the quran does not promote fornication.
And I think Islam (a peaceful state) is allowing of fornication, however not for/against fornication. Because you can be in a peaceful state and have sex outside of marriage.
Marriage is more than sex, but yes it guarantees you sex. And it is not choosing out of fear it is choice out of decency I would say.
if you choose to marry because you are garuntted sex then you are choosing because you are fearful of a lack of sex, hence the garuntee of sex as the primary motivation. The choice is then based on fear, opposed to marrying because you love that soul.
I could have easily had sex by now, but no I choose not to have sex until I get married that?s my personal choice and I believe this is the right way.
I respect your choice. And it is of the greatest soul development that we choose freely.
It has nothing to do with fear in my opinion to have sex with people for pleasure is indecent even out of love or care.
There is nothing wrong with allowing pleasure into your life, if the act does not deteriorate your soul but rather makes it blossom then I myself would encourage it.
I?ve liked many people in my past even loved, how much I would have regretted my life if I had sex with them.
Amidst my joyful memories there are experiences that are sexual and plenty that are humorous. I dont regret them. I do not see the point in coming down to Earth and taking on a body and then avoiding all experience of earth life, that is what I came here to experience.
At the end of the day you have a brain, I have a brain. You have kowledge, you gain knowledge. You follow what you believe is right according to your beleifs and one day we will get judged and that's life
I do truly desire that you follow what you feel is right for you. As will I.
God bless, )
Khalil -
Peace Dosi,
Nothing. There is no difference. So why do it? Why not marry but live together?
You do not have to live together to have sex with someone. And not all relationships are intended to last forever.
People look at living together, cohabitation, chilling out, call it what you want as an alternative man made SYSTEM to Gods perfect SYSTEM of marriage. Its more a rejection of something established and proven (marriage) rather than an actual need to change things or way of living.
Basically it's the same crap as with other human systems - monarchy, comunism, capitalism....How have you come to this realisation, that God has a perfect system of marriage?
peace,
Khalil -
Speaking of marriage, I remember what bro Ahmed Bagat once said. One of the main purposes of marriage is not the signing of contract on a piece of paper (Marriages do not really require official paper actually), instead it is to let other people know that A&B have made an oath to be together and they are responsible for the well-being of one another. Therefore, as a result pressure from society would help to force the couple to be faithful to each other. You know for example when you are married, it is harder for you to follow your desire and make a move on C because C, D, and E know that you are already married to B. But of course some women find it challenging to take away other peoples husbands D jk.
Peace,
lol jankren, thats a horrible reason. By that logic everyone on this forum should give up their belief and/or study of the quran due to family and societal pressure.
Everyone is welcome to live thier life how they choose to, but I will not stay with someone simply due to pressure but rather because I want to.
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Peace Bro Khalil
k i admit i only read bits and pieces of this thread so i might be pulling something out of my butt right now lol
but you said
Everyone is welcome to live thier life how they choose to, but I will not stay with someone simply due to pressure but rather because I want to.
If everyone just gave up so easily that as soon as they don't want to do this anymore, there'd be alot of broken homes... wouldn't you want to work hard to fix things? I think divorce is the absolute last resort if differences are irreconcilable after all options have been completely exhausted. People are guided by their outlook of situations. If you change your outlook everything always falls back in place. So that's why i feel like problems in relationships are just relative. They are easily fixable if the two are willing to adjust. Sometimes it takes awhile to get the two willing to adjust but it would be a shame to throw it all away just cuz you don't feel it anymore at any given moment. Plus children deserve a happy home where they are nurtured by both mommy and daddy. i think for children that two people made, they owe it to them to try their hardest to work things out. divorce is always hard on children.
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peace Boost,
k i admit i only read bits and pieces of this thread so i might be pulling something out of my butt right now lol
yo I wasn't talking about divorce. I was talking about making a choice you normally would not due to societys pressures. If your only faithful because you fear what others will do to you if your not then your obviously not ready for marriage and treading a path of fear (because you fear anothers dissapprovement)
Here is what I was responding to in Jankrens post. "...One of the main purposes of marriage is not the signing of contract on a piece of paper (Marriages do not really require official paper actually), instead it is to let other people know that A&B have made an oath to be together and they are responsible for the well-being of one another. Therefore, as a result pressure from society would help to force the couple to be faithful to each other."
peace,
Khalil -
Peace Bro KHalil
oh that makes sense, i agree with that. i read Bro Jankren's post too i don't know why i had a disconnect hehehe
ignore the divorce post then ;D
although i do believe marriage is more than just an oath to each other. you could have an oath of a commitment to that one person and still not fulfill marriage responsibilities, like financial stuff or not even living with each other or having sexual relations. I think all of that is what separates a bf/gf relationship and a marriage.
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TANVEER, You said, "According to Lane Lexicon, "zina" can mean "to mount/mounting upon a thing/fornication/adultery". In my opinion, that would include both anal and regular sexual intercourse. I am not sure if it would include oral sex. Oral sex, however, is still "fahisha"/lewdness which is also forbidden, and The God orders us not to come near "fahisha" also."
Where in the Koran does it say that oral sex is forbidden?
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Khalil
LoL your post is quite funny, well it made me laugh
To you sex outside marriage isn?t detrimental, but that?s with your human logic, I believe it can be detrimental.
I believe it is a rule that is concrete.
I?m aware that a virus disease or whatever needs to survive in its host before it can move to others, though it is all possible. And not all people are mindful of their health and not all people are aware.
People can judge on truth, where is the wrong in that? Societies perspective of marriage as far as I know lots of people dread marriage because they think it?s a trap so generalizing it's societies perspective I wouldn?t entirely agree
Having babies is a blessing from God, you get pleasure out of sex also. You get pleasure out of a lot of other things also. Besides how is it turning your back away from God?s gifts? It?s rather using God?s gift appropriately and wisely. Not for the sack of your desires and wants. What?s the purpose of life, In your perspective?
People trust people doesn?t mean they won't do injustice.
I believe God tells us to stay away from some acts not ?someone?. And anyway you can look at what someone says and reason with it, and you follow the best of it. Your heart uha yeh your heart desires and wants a lot.. you should follow it but take your brain with you. if your heart hates someone so much that would make you want to kill them would you? or would you use your brain and say that wouldn't be right?
What is islam? Do you believe following the Quran is part of islam? If not why not? also if so then if it doesn?t promote fornication could it mean it isn?t as good as you think it is?
Just because you are in a peaceful state it doesn?t mean it is good. People are in a peaceful state when they drink alcohol does that mean its good and you should gain pleasure from drinking it? I beleive that state is rather weak, than peaceful.
I choose to marry for many reasons, as I said ?marriage is more than sex?. So no it doesn?t mean I am fearful of lack of sex. Why should I be? If I really wanted I could go to the extreme and go to a brothel and get paid sex, heck I could even be a sex worker but that?s just stooping lower than low. Its not a primary motivation, why would you or anyone ever ever get married if you see no benefit in it?
You marry a person for numerous reasons, love is one and you wouldn?t want to share pleasure of sex with others that you don?t love in my opinion because that just selfishness and just following your desires and being a submitter to that.
Why would Quran mention or even promote marriage if it's SOOOOO bad? What's so bad about marriage? Do you think marriage is just saying I do and signing paper?
off course you choose freely, it doesn?t mean you don?t receive the consequences, you do in this life or in the hereafter.
Tell me how does having sex with people make your life blossom?
Taking a body and then avoiding all experiences of earth life?? lol guess what!? there is a billion things to experience I bet you haven't even experience half.
And pleasure doesn?t start and halt on sex. And the guidance lets us blossom in pleasure in the most just and appropriate ways )
lilyfleur not everything is black and white do you need the verse to say "oral sex is haram" to accept it? Maybe Tanveer can elaborate abit, do you think such acts would be ok with someone who is married, who has the rights to touch their partner in such ways?
oral sex comes under fahisha.. so what verses relate to fahisha?
3135
check the ones tanveer mentioned I have to leave sorry, asalamu alaikum
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Salam,
Though in your own words, can you tell me why you believe sex outside of marriage to be different than sex in side of marriage?
peace,
KhalilWell I guess it's more that the high risk of having illness is when u change partner too often, and if you are unmarried it's likely to happen more often.
That's how I see it!!!
But I trust Al-Quran and believe that hold on to a spouse in nikah is the best way to build a strong bond and create a healthy family.
Peace sis Majidah
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"lilyfleur not everything is black and white do you need the verse to say "oral sex is haram" to accept it?"
YES, YES I DO. I DON'T THINK THAT GOD WANTS US TAKING OUR OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS AND ATTRIBUTING THEM TO HIS WORDS. I UNDERSTAND THAT GOD MADE THE KORAN EASY TO UNDERSTAND, NOT A BOOK TO REQUIRE DECIPHERING."Maybe Tanveer can elaborate abit, do you think such acts would be ok with someone who is married, who has the rights to touch their partner in such ways?"
WHO IS TANVEER TO MAKE THIS CALL, THINK FOR YOURSELF."oral sex comes under fahisha"
SAYS WHO? YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE YOUR PERSONAL SEXUAL HANGUPS AND ATTRIBUTE THEM TO GOD'S WORDS. -
PEace Sis Lillyfluer
I think bro Tanveer was talking about oral sex being fahisha, he was talking about it outside of marriage ... bro Tanveer, put me in my place if i'm wrong D
Oral sex outside of marriage is obviously a fahisha
Inside the realm of marriage i don't think any kind of sexual act is haram, as long as it remains between the married couple.
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Peace sis "BOOST",
Inside the realm of marriage i don't think any kind of sexual act is haram, as long as it remains between the married couple.
JK- except for anal sex and by that i mean anal penetration because it would make no sense that GOD so strongly condemns homosexuality of males(lesbianism has not been condemned by GOD directly in the Quran), where the penetration part is the real issue which causes all those diseases mostly related with the human immune system, whilst on the other hand it should be fine to indulge in such durting marriage. The woman's internal anus is no more clean/sterile to my knowledge than that of a man in case such argument should arise. GOD Bless!