GOD - all quantum particles of all existence COMBINED!
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Peace jonny,
Im very disappointed to here this from you being a rationally minded person who believes in evolution. In other words you believe in superstition rather than causalitiy.
I can't help someone's disappointment, but I can clairfy. I don't believe in superstition and I'm not sure why you would surmise that. I explained that the infinite cannot be bound by the laws of the finite. This is pretty simple logic bro. We have finite brains that cannot comprehend infinity.
GOD has explained in the Quran that He is the Light of the heavens and earth so i dont undertand what the fuss is about.
There is no fuss.
We cant comprehend the complexity of GOD though, thts wht is meant.
The complexity, nor the nature of God's essence. You can knock yourself out trying to, though. I'm not going to try to stop you. I'm just sharing my thoughts after spending countless hours thinking down the same path.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay",
Peace jonny,
I can't help someone's disappointment, but I can clairfy. I don't believe in superstition and I'm not sure why you would surmise that. I explained that the infinite cannot be bound by the laws of the finite. This is pretty simple logic bro. We have finite brains that cannot comprehend infinity.
JK- If you dont believe in superstition or being logical then you cannot say that GOD is not a being, consists of nothing since that would violate causality and anything tht does aint logical. Comprehension of the infinite is because of the infinite complexity as explained below.
The complexity, nor the nature of God's essence. You can knock yourself out trying to, though. I'm not going to try to stop you. I'm just sharing my thoughts after spending countless hours thinking down the same path.
Peace,
TayJK- The nature of GOD's essence is already mentioned in the Quran i.e. Light. Why dont you go with that? GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
If you dont believe in superstition or being logical then you cannot say that GOD is not a being, consists of nothing...
Who said God consists of nothing?
I said "being" is the wrong word because you have no reference point. Rather than continue telling me I'm wrong, why not just provide a reference point for an infinite creator? That would settle the discussion completely.that would violate causality and anything tht does aint logical.
Once again you trap God into the laws of the God's own creation. This is a fallacy. Do you not see it? Does an orange tree have the limitations of an orange?
Furthermore, an infinite creator initiating the universe is the prime cause of the law of causality itself. Otherwise, you'd be stuck in an endless loop.
I'm sorry jonny, but some things are just outside of the realm of science. That doesn't make them superstitious.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay",
Peace jonny,
Who said God consists of nothing?
I said "being" is the wrong word because you have no reference point. Rather than continue telling me I'm wrong, why not just provide a reference point for an infinite creator? That would settle the discussion completely.JK- What is your definition of being. Mine is a unit of intelligence.
Once again you trap God into the laws of the God's own creation. This is a fallacy. Do you not see it? Does an orange tree have the limitations of an orange?
Furthermore, an infinite creator initiating the universe is the prime cause of the law of causality itself. Otherwise, you'd be stuck in an endless loop.
JK- Causality is not a law which needs to be created. It is what logically has to be true like 2+2=4. Did GOD create that? Moreover where in the Quran do we find that GOD created light. I say light is uncreated. It is just there and it stretches to infinity given that there are other universes besides this one and an ultiverse OR infinite parallel universes.
I'm sorry jonny, but some things are just outside of the realm of science. That doesn't make them superstitious.
Peace,
TayJK- Oh yes it does, that is EXACTLY what it does. Anything that cannot be inferred through science is pure superstition or a believe in the supernatural which is nonsensible. GOD Bless!
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Dear Jonny,
God Himself says in Quran that nothing you can think of can define God.
Chapter 42 verse 1
Nothing is like Him and He is the all hearing, the all seeing.
So no particle no image no thought no imagination and no object is related to God in any way except That God is the Creator of all dreams, images, thoughts, particles, souls and anything else you can think of. God is the Lord of the worlds totally distinct from any invisible magical being or physical particle or anything you could possibly imagine. God is the Lord of space, time , matter and energy so nothing could define Him not even your thinking of any sort. God is established above the throne which is the farthest boundary of our universe, space, time and energy. So the realm where God is beyond the limits of our imagination,universe and space and time. All your vision is under the grasp of God but you cannot grasp God's vision.
Chapter 6 verse 103
103.The eyesight cannot reach yet He can reach all eyesight; and He is the Subtle, the Expert.
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Peace jonny, abrar,
Jonny, you continue to answer questions with questions. As abrar has clearly proven via the qur'an, everything was created by God, and there is nothing like God for us to fathom or compare. These are the facts. God created light, God created the universe, God created the logic that you continue to try to define God with.
Anything that cannot be inferred through science is pure superstition or a believe in the supernatural
which is nonsensible.Please explain the following quranic concepts through science, with reference to bonafide scientists that support you
God
Soul
AfterlifePlease explain love.
Please explain beauty.
Please explain intuition.
Please explain laughter.Science is a tool for measuring the tangible in nature. The intangible is outside the scope of science. Nothing supernatural about it - in fact it's all very natural - it's just super-scientific.
Abrar, thanks for the link.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "Abrar" and "tay",
Yes the verse you mentioned does mention GOD maed "ja'ala(set NOT create)" darkness and light but here what it obviously means is not the creation of those entities since darkness is merely the absence of light. What it means here is that GOD set up with his Light how and where it should be distributed. Theres no problem with that.
As for there being nothing like GOD, ofcourse theres nothing like him. I never said that. But that verse doesnt mean tht the essence of GOD is nothing which is present in this universe if you somehow think that beacuse the verse doesnt say that. It says that nothing is comparable to GOD since Hes infinite which i agree with already. GOD Bless! -
Peace "tay",
Please explain the following quranic concepts through science, with reference to bonafide scientists that support you
GodJK- As already explained.
Soul
JK- Neural network of the human brain OR according to my theory finite quantum network, part of GOD's, probably in another universe to which the brain establishes a link.
Afterlife
JK- Recreation ofanother universe through evoltuionary processes.
Please explain love.
Please explain beauty.
Please explain intuition.
Please explain laughter.JK- All are created by hormones and the chemical reactions of the neural network in the brain. If you detsroy or damage it you wont have those feelings. This is very clear to any neuroscientist.
Science is a tool for measuring the tangible in nature. The intangible is outside the scope of science. Nothing supernatural about it - in fact it's all very natural - it's just super-scientific.
JK- Super-scientific is just another twist for the supernatural. As i said before science is the only means to ascertain truth and we must go with that not superscience, thts nonsense. GOD Bless!
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Dear jonny,
The scientific definition of light includes the entire electromagnetic spectrum, not just visible light, so it is physically impossible to create perfect darkness. For example, all objects radiate heat in the form of infrared light and Gamma rays, extremely high frequency light, can penetrate even dense materials.
Darkness all over outer space and vacuum is never pure it just does not contain visible spectrum of electromagnetic radiation but it does contain other radiations so darkness is never perfectly dark and empty realm.The arabic word has synonyms meaning created and meaning manufactured.
You can find these synonyms in any good arabic thesaures so there is no need to say that God did not actually Create Light. It would be similar to paganism if someone idolises photons of light as a part of God's body or in any similar way characterising particles as a part of God's body. It would be blasphemy to say that when an electron jumps from higher energy orbit to a lower energy orbit it emmits photons or a part of God. This is clearly idolising God in a high tec way whereas pagans' Al lat and Al Uzza were ugly and low tech and primitive but both ideologies are alike.When God has mentioned that there is nothing like Him then it means there is no essence of God anywhere in the universe. He is the Hidden which is one of His beautiful names mentioned in Quran.
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Peace "abrar",
Dear jonny,
The scientific definition of light includes the entire electromagnetic spectrum, not just visible light, so it is physically impossible to create perfect darkness. For example, all objects radiate heat in the form of infrared light and Gamma rays, extremely high frequency light, can penetrate even dense materials.
Darkness all over outer space and vacuum is never pure it just does not contain visible spectrum of electromagnetic radiation but it does contain other radiations so darkness is never perfectly dark and empty realm.JK- I know that the definition of light includes the invisible spectrum, hence when GOD says that Hes the Light of the heavens and the earth it includes the entire em spectrum as you rightly state and not only that visible to us. Youve just reinforced my point.
The arabic word has synonyms meaning created and meaning manufactured.
You can find these synonyms in any good arabic thesaures so there is no need to say that God did not actually Create Light. It would be similar to paganism if someone idolises photons of light as a part of God's body or in any similar way characterising particles as a part of God's body. It would be blasphemy to say that when an electron jumps from higher energy orbit to a lower energy orbit it emmits photons or a part of God. This is clearly idolising God in a high tec way whereas pagans' Al lat and Al Uzza were ugly and low tech and primitive but both ideologies are alike.JK- Man everytging is a part of GOD anyways so ehat is your point? Are we not part of GOD? Ofcourse we are. Everything issues from GOD so wheres your problem? Moreover there is a clear difference btw "ja'ala" and "khalaqa" in my understanding. They are not synonymous and GOD uses them at their right places for a reason.
When God has mentioned that there is nothing like Him then it means there is no essence of God anywhere in the universe. He is the Hidden which is one of His beautiful names mentioned in Quran.
JK- Hes hidden from direct sight and also one cannot comprehend Him fully since Hes infinite as ive professed before. It doesnt matter what the essene of a being is when its too huge one cannot comprehend it. So once again wheres the prob? I can only repeat the Quran itself says "GOD is the Light of the heavens and the earth" so one can either believe it or reject it. GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
Hes hidden from direct sight and also one cannot comprehend Him fully since Hes infinite as ive professed before. It doesnt matter what the essene of a being is when its too huge one cannot comprehend it. So once again wheres the prob? I can only repeat the Quran itself says "GOD is the Light of the heavens and the earth" so one can either believe it or reject it
Perfect. Good to see you letting go of trying to define God.
Once you realize that love, beauty, laughter, and intuition have nothing to do with neurology, and are gifts from the infinite, I'd call it progress. Think of it like this is the color red created by your eyes? Reflect, jonnyk. Science is only for the physical - which we are far beyond.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay",
Peace jonny,
Perfect. Good to see you letting go of trying to define God.
Once you realize that love, beauty, laughter, and intuition have nothing to do with neurology, and are gifts from the infinite, I'd call it progress. Think of it like this is the color red created by your eyes? Reflect, jonnyk. Science is only for the physical - which we are far beyond.
Peace,
TayJK- Physical are the things which exist with high probability since weve tested them. Other stuff is superstition. Thts why i dont like the term spirituality. And if love , beauty and laughter are not controlled by regions in the brain then could you tell me that why if those are damaged these emotions disappear partially or completely? Moreover one can also stimulate laughter by stimulating the regions responsible for it in the brain. GOD created the neuro system and it is marvellous but to engage in superstitious nonsense aint smart at all. It wont allow us to progress and its not wht i believe GOD wants. Science is all we got to ascertain the truth. There is nothing else. GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
I'll answer your question when you can provide proof of such a thing, because as it stands, there is zero correlation of which you speak. Yes, laughter is expressed with facial and vocal expressions but it is humor which catalyzes laughter - and humor has no scientific explanation. Love and intuition, on the other hand, can in no way be recreated in the lab, muted, or even understood scientifically. And lastly, beauty is mysteriously and defyingly universal. Science has tried to correlate symmetry with beauty - falsely - but even if that were the case, science cannot fathom why symmetry equates to beauty.
Please, no more speculation and hypotheses if you want this discussion taken seriously. I expect cited material that we can dissect intellectually.
Peace,
Tay -
Tay,
What do you mean by that statement
"Think of it like this is the color red created by your eyes?" with this discussionColour is supposed to be the wavelength of the light that is reflected into your eye...
Wassallam
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Peace Mozmahe,
I agree. The wavelength is perceived and then translated by the brain. I asked this question to illustrate that just because there is a receptor in the brain that can be turned on and off (via damage or whatever), it does not define the message that is being received. Whether or not we can see the "red", it is still "red". So jonny's argument is falsified. Brain damage which leaves people seemingly impotent of things like love and intuition is not evidence of the brain's control over these concepts, only evidence of the brain's fundamental role in expressing or perceiving of these concepts. The brain is the vehicle through which these concepts are expressed and/or perceived. The brain does not create these concepts.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace "tay",
From what i hear from you i seriously doubt youve ever bee to a neuroscience lab. Chimps also experience emotions similar to man. Laughter is created in the brain as certain neurons are stimulated and related with certain memories. Usually a deviation from the norm or absurdity can cause such. Colors are perceived in the brain's neural network too and not in the eye as you correctly assert so whts the problem? Doesnt make it supernatural does it? Im sorry to say you dont sound like a scientist here, more like Christians. GOD Bless! -
Peace "tay",
Peace Mozmahe,
I agree. The wavelength is perceived and then translated by the brain. I asked this question to illustrate that just because there is a receptor in the brain that can be turned on and off (via damage or whatever), it does not define the message that is being received. Whether or not we can see the "red", it is still "red". So jonny's argument is falsified.
JK- This all depends on how you define red. If you define it by wavelength then yes even if one may see it as green coz hes color blind it would still have to be scientifically classified as red by him.
Brain damage which leaves people seemingly impotent of things like love and intuition is not evidence of the brain's control over these concepts, only evidence of the brain's fundamental role in expressing or perceiving of these concepts. The brain is the vehicle through which these concepts are expressed and/or perceived. The brain does not create these concepts.
Peace,
TayJK- Tay are you serious? Because if you are then i guess your the one speculating here. Moreover did you know experiments were done with rats where they could be entirely controlled, made hungry be social or not etc? Did you know that with a certain substance one can make humans laugh unwantingly or even cry? Did you know that people's personality could be totally changed if certain regions of their brain are manipulated? Did you know about a girl who had an accident and after that endulged in all kinds of criminal activities saying she knew not they were evil, but before she was good and kind? I mean it cant ge any clearer than this and if you dont believe go to a neuro clinic in your area and ask them. Theyll provide you with all the evidence but please dont start denying science. Whether an individual person can experience feelings with completely no brain activity is unknown and remains speculation. NDE experiences have been performed but those could be expereinces just as the brain's neurons were getting activated again and then the person informing about that info which he experienced during tht process and we know that since time is relative so a dreaming person while experiencing many hours the external people would have experienced only a couple of mins. GOD Bless!
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Peace jonny,
Like I said, please cite some credible references for us all to learn from. I've never feigned a mastery in science. Contrarily, that's all you talk about. So how about it? No more stories of nameless people who did so and so. You want science, let's be scientific about it.
We'll start with beauty.
Please cite a reputable article that shows conclusive evidence that beauty is created by the brain.If not, then this discussion is over.
Peace,
Tay