Successor OR Opposer???
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230 And your Lord said to the Angels "I am placing a successor on Earth." They said "Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know." (Free-Minds Translation)
Salaam all,
As of late I have been questioning the much agreed upon interpretation of Khalifa being successor. According to all the Arabic dictionaries that I have access to inlcuding Lane's Lexicon, Vol. 2, page428, KhaLaFa doesn't ONLY mean one who follows or succeeds another. Two other meanings associated with this root word are
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To oppose/differ and to be dissimilar and in disagreement with another.
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To Break one's promise, oath or pact.
In 230 when GOD informed the Angels that He intends to establish a Khalifa on the earth, notice how the angels immediately questioned that which will be placed on earth. Why would they ask such a question?
The reason that I am for the above two defintions for Khalifa instead of successor is due to the wording of the angels as they were questioning GOD. Notice how they compared themselves and THAT WHICH THEY DO to the creation GOD hasn't even made yet but merely ANNOUNCED.
Let's look at that verse again...
230 And your Lord said to the Angels "I am placing a successor on Earth." They said "Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
The angels sing GOD's glory and praise Him. If GOD places a Khalifa (one who is Different from the angels), then the angels suspect that he will be and do different than what they themselves are and do. A khalifa can also be one who opposes or is the opposite of another which can justify the angels suspicion that this creation will be and do opposite of what they themselves are and do. Another thing, the angels (as well as ALL creation) are a testament to the Glory and Magnificence of GOD which is why they actively seek to praise and glorify Him. In this way, they are fulfilling an oath or pact between Creator and Creation. However, a khalifa (one who Breaks a promise or oath) will NOT sing GOD's praise and glory but will, instead, break this pact with GOD and fulfill his own selfish whims such as "Corrupt in it and spill blood."
So I believe the verse should correctly read
230 And your Lord said to the Angels "I am placing a Khalifa (Variant/Contrarian/Promise Breaker) on Earth." They said "Would You place in it HE WHO would corrupt in it, and spill blood, WHILE WE sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said "I know what you do not know."
Something else to keep in mind. GOD specifically said that He is placing a khalifa on earth when He could have very well said that He is placing a Khalqun (Creature/creation) on earth which would have made the angels questioning look odd and out of place. But Arabic is an exacting and precise language and GOD made it a point to say khalifa instead of khalqun.
One last thing. Some may say that the successor interpretation fits because the angels were created first and GOD informed them that He was about to make another creation which would possibly replace them (another definition of KhaLaFa) and hence, their questioning thinking maybe GOD is going to replace them with this new successor. I disagree with that notion on three counts
Count 1 - GOD said that He was placing this khalifa on earth. To the best of my knowledge earth is not the strict home or realm of the angels. They do GOD's bidding throughout the entire universe and not just earth.
Count 2 - GOD specifically said that He established mankind on earth and yet said no such thing concerning the angels.
Count 3 - After making this new creation, GOD commanded His Prior creation (the angels) to acknowledge and serve him so He obviously did not replace the angels with him (mankind).
What are you all's thoughts on this?
Salaam,
Damon. -
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Maybe you should try "representative".
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Peace Wakas,
peace Damon,
Why not successor to what is already there on earth?
I have not studied this thoroughly, I'm just thinking out loud.
I haven't come across anything in The Quran that suggests to me that there was Life on earth prior to the creation and establishment of mankind upon it, and thus, to be successor to what is already there.
Most importantly, my present understanding is based on two things.
1). The definitions of the root word KhaLaFa two of which are to oppose/be OPPOSITE or DIFFERENT to as well as to break a promise.
2). The angels immediately questioned GOD's announcement. At that point, that is all it was...an announcement. GOD did not describe this new creation nor did He say what they will do or what their attributes and qualities are.
The angels compared THEMSELVES and WHAT THEY DO to this khalifa. They did it in such a way as to point out to GOD that this khalifa sounds to them to be OPPOSITE and DIFFERENT than themselves.
The Angels Glorify and Praise GOD and serve Him feverishly.
A Khalifa (one who is DIFFERENT or OPPOSITE from the angels) Will not praise or glorify GOD, but will corrupt in the earth and shed blood in it. At least this is what the angels thought man would do because of the word GOD called this creation...Khalifa - One who is Different and who is Opposite of another. But Different or Opposite to who? The angels in GOD's presence.
See, a good question to ask is Why would the angels ask GOD would this being shed blood and corruptin on earth without witnessing this being or seeing it in action first? It must be something with the word khalifa that GOD used to describe this being He is planning to create and place in the earth.
If successor is the correct interpretation, why would they automatically assume that this successor would corrupt and shed blood in the earth? What is it about a successor that would cause them to assume that?
We have quite a few choices as to which definition to apply to the word Khalifa based on the root definition of KhaLaFa. I believe the key to making the more accurate choice lies in not only the angels Questioning GOD's announcement, but more importantly they started COMPARING themselves to this new creation.
What other things come with COMPARISON? Differentiation and Being Opposite to a thing or person. What are two defintions for the root word KhaLaFa? Being Different from a thing or person and Being Opposite from a thing or person.
Salaam.
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Peace Damon,
Thanks for bringing this to light.
Opposer seems to me to fit the ayat in question if one is to believe that there was no animal life before mankind. Personally, I don't believe that.You stated
I haven't come across anything in The Quran that suggests to me that there was Life on earth prior to the creation and establishment of mankind upon it, and thus, to be successor to what is already there.
I disagree. IMO, it's clear that life went through a process prior to mankind's "arrival"...
2130 Did those who reject not see that the heavens and the Earth were one piece and We tore them apart? And that We made from the water everything that lives. Will they not believe?
3020 And from His signs is that He created you from dust, then you become human beings spreading out.
It's sensible the the malaikat would be somewhat dumbfounded that an evolved "animal" would be successor. They've already witnessed what animals do to each other. But God knew what they didn't know. He would be giving man the ability to learn and communicate and choose.
So, I think both translations fit depending on how one views the advent of mankind.
Peace,
Tay -
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Peace ILisa,
Peace Damon,
Yes! I'm with you 100% on this ayah. This makes much more sense in light of this ayah and others that refer to mankind's tendancies. I've not done the research, but have you checked to see how that fits in with other ayat that mention K-L-F?
No I haven't. In fact, the only thing that immediately comes to mind is 482.
Afala yatadabbaroona alqur-anawalaw kana min AAindi ghayri Allahi lawajadoo feehiikhtilafan katheeran
Why do they not ponder over the Qur'?n? Had it been from anyone other than All?h, they would surely have found a good deal of inconsistency therein. (Abdul Mannan Omar Translation)
Will they not then try to understand this Quran? If it were from other than Allah they would surely have found in it much contradiction. (QXP)
Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it was from any other than God they would have found it very different. (Free-Minds Translation)
I have to leave for work, but when I return home I plan to go on This Site in order to look at the other occurences of words with this root.
We should keep in mind that not all occurences have to have the meaning of Different or In Opposition To, which is why most of us don't believe idribuhuna in 434 is supposed to mean beat them.
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Salaam Wakas,
peace Damon,
No-one is disputing KLF can mean something else in AQ. In fact, bro Ayman made a post recently about this, citing specific signs.
Oh no bro, I wasn't accusing any of you guys of disputing KhLF, I was only pointing out the reason why I believe it should be One who is different or who is Opposite to which is the angels comparing themselves to GOD's new creation and hinting at how man will be Different and Opposite to themselves.
When it's all said and done, one thing I'm sure we all agree on is that we can pinpoint the correct definition of an Arabic word based upon the context in which it is placed.
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Salam bro Damon and all.
Why the malaika said what they said, I have tried to explain it here
http//thequran.wordpress.com/2006/08/31/who-was-the-khalifa-in-earth230-dawood-or-adam-3/
What is it that malaika did not know and Allah knew(230)?
The malaika confused al-qitaal/the fighting with fasaad/mischief/corruption. They argued that the khalifa(Dawood) was causing fasaad in earth. But what Taloot, his soldiers and Dawood were actually doing was al-qitaal(which is good for us, 2216), which was prescribed (2246) by Allah (for self-defense), which is a means of preventing, not causing, fasaad in earth (2251).
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Salam bro Damon and all.
Why the malaika said what they said, I have tried to explain it here
http//thequran.wordpress.com/2006/08/31/who-was-the-khalifa-in-earth230-dawood-or-adam-3/
Salaams Fahad,
Was only David a King or was there one before him? and many after him all Khalifas?
Saul,David and Solomon.
Saul being the first though.
Waqala lahum nabiyyuhum inna Allahaqad baAAatha lakum taloota malikan qaloo annayakoonu lahu almulku AAalayna wanahnu ahaqqubialmulki minhu walam yu/ta saAAatan mina almali qalainna Allaha istafahu AAalaykum wazadahubastatan fee alAAilmi waaljismi waAllahuyu/tee mulkahu man yashao waAllahu wasiAAunAAaleemun
Their Prophet said to them "Allah hath appointed Talut as king over you." They said "How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?" He said "Allah hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess Allah Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things."
Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee jaAAilun fee al-ardi khaleefatan qalooatajAAalu feeha man yufsidu feeha wayasfiku alddimaawanahnu nusabbihu bihamdika wanuqaddisu lakaqala innee aAAlamu ma la taAAlamoona
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said "I know what ye know not."
And don?t the above two ayah?s have more in common.
So it could be saul rather then david in 230
Salaams.
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Waqala lahum nabiyyuhum inna Allahaqad baAAatha lakum taloota malikan qaloo annayakoonu lahu almulku AAalayna wanahnu ahaqqubialmulki minhu walam yu/ta saAAatan mina almali qalainna Allaha istafahu AAalaykum wazadahubastatan fee alAAilmi waaljismi waAllahuyu/tee mulkahu man yashao waAllahu wasiAAunAAaleemun
Their Prophet said to them "Allah hath appointed Talut as king over you." They said "How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?" He said "Allah hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess Allah Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things."
Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee jaAAilun fee al-ardi khaleefatan qalooatajAAalu feeha man yufsidu feeha wayasfiku alddimaawanahnu nusabbihu bihamdika wanuqaddisu lakaqala innee aAAlamu ma la taAAlamoona
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said "I know what ye know not."
And don?t the above two ayah?s have more in common.
So it could be saul rather then david in 230
Whats so common between the two verses?
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Whats so common between the two verses?
- Talut is a khalifa /vicegerent, as in 230.
- He was chosen by Allah, as in 230.
- They asked why is he chosen when we are better fitted then he, as in 230.
- Allah has gifted him with things they didn't know, as in 230.
So can it be that Talut is the one who is the spiller of blood (Adam 231)and david became his partner (this is confirmed by history-both lived in the palace after david killed jaloot but then became out of jealousy bitter rivals and got kicked out from the tranquile state they had been in) and jaloot was the iblees who didn?t accept Talut he opposed talut and challenged them to send out their strong men to fight him???????
God Bless.
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- Talut is a khalifa /vicegerent, as in 230.
- He was chosen by Allah, as in 230.
I disagree. Dawood has been explicitly mentioned as a "khalifa fil ard", where Allah also addresses the question(230) asked by the malaika. ( 3826-28 )
So 230 has more in common with 3826-28, than with 2247.
