The Whole Evil Paradox thing

serenity

Hi
I joined here a while ago, but havent posted much. I've been doing my own studying about religion in general.
Of the many things that i have encountered is the whole evil paradox thing. And the free will paradox, which i believe can be joined together.

Now most Muslims, i think, believe that we have free will. Indeed, i have read discussions here that have tried explaining free will and why evil exists.
The whole paradox thing goes (as i am sure most of you know), like this

If we have free will, then God doesnt know everything we will do
If God knows everything we will do, then we dont have free will

Let me stop here, and point out that i almost understand the concept of God being outside of space and time, and that its not so much that God forces us to do something, just that He knows what path we will choose.

But this leads onto (IMHO) to the evil papradox. If God knows that men will do evil and chooses not to intervene, then He cannot be All-Loving.
Anyway, i'm sure you know how the rest of it goes.

My point being, that i thought free will DID exist in Islam. But then i read verses like those that say God guides whom He wants, and misleads whom He wants.

And THEN i found out that a lot of Muslims actually dont believe in free will.
These verses seem to support that belief.

So my question is.....if God is guiding and misleading whoever He wants....then it would appear that we dont have free will. In which case, God is making evil people do evil things.

If anyone can help clear things up here, i would appreciate it. -)

Someone

Peace serenity,

"...But then i read verses like those that say God guides whom He wants, and misleads whom He wants."

This verse that you are talking about is one of the most misunderstood, I think.

I believe it should be read or translated this way

The god guides whomever wills (to be guided) = the god provides the tools for guidance for him who wishes to be guided.
The god misleads whomever wills (to be lead astray) = the god also provides the tools for those who want to be lead astray.
The god doesn't choose who will be guided or not, we do choose for ourselves.
The confusion about this verse (and others on the same issue) are purely due to the mindset of the persons interpreting them. The arabic text indeed does permit both readings, but as you noted, the traditional reading does create many contradiction.

palestina

peace someone!
i could just kiss you right now after reading your post! suddenly free choice clicked with me.... i have had problems reconciling freewill with these verses... but then when i read the interpretation you offered it all made sense!

God guides whoever wills
God guides whoever He wills

amazing how a translation discrepancy can change a meaning!

thank you!

Tay

Peace serenity,

"Someone" did an excellent job of explaining the second part of your concerns. For the first part, you stated

If God knows that men will do evil and chooses not to intervene, then He cannot be All-Loving.

I agree with you. My understanding is that the future is not written, even outside of space and time. I believe God knows the future based on what your decisions have been up to this very moment. Allow me an example in the simplest of terms Let's say I designed a robot that could decide to go left, right, or straight at every fork in his path. At the first fork, the robot goes straight, the second he goes left, and the third he goes right. At the fourth fork, he goes straight again, then left and then right again. I can see his tendencies and can predict exactly where he'll be 10,000 forks from now, and at any point in between. But at any moment, he can change his tendencies, and then once again I can see where he'll end up. Every time he changes his mind, he changes his destiny, which I can always see before he gets there. And I can see where the path ends completely.

This is how I view God's chosen perspective of humanity. Your future is known, but it can change with your next decision. In the qur'an, God implores us to believe, to be peaceful, to be good, to be patient, to take care of ourselves and each other. God knows what's in front of us - the good and the bad that await. The guidance is a blessing to avoid the bad enroute to the good. It is a roadmap for our journey through life.

I hope that helps.

Peace,
Tay

palestina

peace serenity,

regarding your question about God choosing not to intervene
I asked a similar question in a different post

The point is people choose good or evil - the fact that God knows it will happen does not mean we didnt choose our actions - if he intervenes we would not have free choice...

Someone then pointed this film out to me
This reminds me of a line in the film "Bruce Almighty" (starring Jim Carey) in which he is a temporary God speaking to the apparent God (Morgan Freeman) and he is trying to get his girlfriend to love him and he says

Bruce How do you make somebody love you without affecting their free will?
God Welcome to my world.

And so in God not intervening, He allows us to continue living with free-choice, and to show His love and mercy to us, He sent us the Quran as a guidance so that we will make the correct choices.....

But God knows best! Im just as confused as you are!

Peace x

Wakas

see the following thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13506