Is "Takabbur" holding us from going anywhere
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I have been reading this forum for the last few months. Like almost all other religious discussions, most of the discussions here have been loaded with "Takabbar". A few seem genuinenly humble.
Takabbur = False pride. Arrogance. Self-glorification. Holding others in contempt. Refusing to learn and unlearn. Insisting on blind following. Refusing to admit fault. Being forward before the Messages of Allah. To shun the Truth. Thinking that 'I know it all'. Holding material goods higher than virtue.
If we are here to genuinely pursue the truth, then we have admit that in most discussions, both parties should learn something and unlearn something. On the other hand when I find that after 10 pages of text both the parties are maintaining the same stance that they had before the discussion, then chances are that they both are fighting for their dignity, not for the truth,
The Quran tells us that the thing that stopped people from accepting the truth was "Takabbar".
It is very disappointing for beginners like me to read and read and still see 2 sides fighting to win the discussion and not to promote the truth. Most people here are not scholars but still I see very very few of them accept something after a discussion. They just prefer to stick to their own initial judgments.
Please help us beginners and truth seeks with some humble attitude and help us find what is right, NOT who is right.
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Peace Neo2,
While I think your message is important, I would also say it's shortsighted. Yes, it is rare to see a lot of change within one thread. This is true across the board, across the web, across the world. We don't change overnight. If we did, there would be constant shifting of ideas and thoughts and it would become quite chaotic. The truth is very rarely black or white. Most people have aspects of the truth in their views and thus need the constant poking and prodding to shake loose the falsehoods. Therefore, if you look at people's ideas and thoughts over the course of, say, 1 year, then you would certainly see progress in a general direction. You'd also see a filtration of people who do not agree with that general direction.
So don't think yourself at a disadvantage because you're a "beginner". On the contrary, if you can get past the bravado, you'll find that you have the clearest vision of all discussions.
Peace,
Tay -
Salam.
People often fight but when someone opens a topic, the beginning is good, because we talk and the problem begins when the two parties start arguing and are interpreting the verse different.
The thing is, we do agree on the basics and that's what's important here. We all agree that there is no god but One GOD, we believe that we must all follow The Quran in order to earn Paradise, but the problem rises when we start defining Paradise. This is just an example.
Then someone asks something, like, should women be beaten according to 434 and then as soon as four people provide the verses from The Quran, we start arguing whose Quran is better translated from Arabic.
Peace.
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PEace Neo2this (like the name) ;D
welcome to the forum!
hmmm i agree people do act that way at times. i do too. i don't know if or where i did it on the forum but i do do it in real life (i can be stubborn with things i believe stongly in)
but i think the more you're so angry about something, the more it's an indicator that you don't want that thing that the other is saying to be true. and if it were a clear cut case of falsehood you wouldn't be so angry. but there's this little bit inside you that doubts and says "oh no, that might be true and where would that leave me since i've believed so strongly it was false" so it comes out as arrogance and anger towards the other person and you wind up being really stubborn about things.
but like bro Tay explained, over the course of time that stubbornness fades and eventually it's easier to accept that "shocking truth" you couldn't accept a few months ago. because you had time to rationalize it in your head even if you weren't consciously thinking about it.
anyways, don't be intimidated to join in any discussion because as you said, none of us are scholars. we could learn from you as well as each other. i always have an interest in reading new members' posts because its not tainted with the same swirl of thoughts we've been swishing around on the forum.
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Very good answer Tay, Thanks.
I was trying to find out if anyone has changed his views over time on this forum and is it reflected in his posts over time. I will look more closely over a course of longer time. It will tell me what arguments caused a change in mind.
Right now I am confused and I am getting frustrated like a person standing in the middle of a cross-road not sure which way to turn.
If I follow my mind, then who is to make sure that my mind is guiding me to the right path. It may guide me to the easiest path. You say that "We don't change overnight". True. We have been taught not to listen to any other point of view since it may corrupt our beliefs. I dont know to what extend one should be flexible.
If I assume that my life-long sunni beliefs are wrong then shouldn't I be searching inr all the other religions in the world to find the truth. Why Quran alone.
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Thanks BOOST.
anyways, don't be intimidated to join in any discussion because as you said, none of us are scholars. we could learn from you as well as each other. i always have an interest in reading new members' posts because its not tainted with the same swirl of thoughts we've been swishing around on the forum.
While you people might not be scholars, you do make a lot of sense. peace
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If I assume that my life-long sunni beliefs are wrong then shouldn't I be searching inr all the other religions in the world to find the truth. Why Quran alone.
Bro, there is truth in every religion. So it wouldnt hurt to study all religions.
"All religions are truths" - Gandhi
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Peace Neo2,
If I assume that my life-long sunni beliefs are wrong then shouldn't I be searching in all the other religions in the world to find the truth. Why Quran alone.
You should search wherever your path leads you. I wouldn't even limit myself to religion. When I discovered the fallacy of my sunni upbringing, I left Islam completely. I still went through the motions for the sake of family and friends, but I had no real identity. I read everything I could get my hands on. I listened to whoever would share their own spirituality with me. But I never felt disconnected from islam. I knew in my heart that God would accept me as long as I believed in Him and tried my best to be a good person. And that hasn't changed.
So, long story short, I came back to studying islam to make peace with everything that didn't sit right with me. I had to really start with a clean slate (as much as that's possible) and call into question every facet of the qur'an.
I'm far from content with my progress, but I am content with my foundation. And I think that's what's most important.
Anyway, good luck and peace be with you wherever your journey takes you.
-Tay -
I was trying to find out if anyone has changed his views over time on this forum and is it reflected in his posts over time.
take a look at mine. my views have definitely changed since last year.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1101;sa=showPosts;start=0