Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. Hard evidence for the true statement of faith ('shahada').

Hard evidence for the true statement of faith ('shahada').

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
20 Posts 9 Posters 36 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • P Offline
    P Offline
    palestina
    wrote on last edited by
    #11

    i know this is an old post... but as ive just read the article about the shahada on the website
    http//www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/testimony.htm

    i thought id ask .... these old coins show the inscription to be "la illaha illa allah" etc.... but freeminds say the true testimony is "aslamtu li rabbi-l alameen"
    One point of argument is the verses which say "allah suffices as a witness" so we shouldnt testify this at all... but doesnt 318 say GOD bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge, upholders of justice. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.

    and also
    6012 says O Prophet! when believing women come to you giving you a pledge that they will not associate aught with Allah....
    what is this pledge? surely "la illaha illa allah"?

    Im thinking you must say "la illaha illa allah" to be a believer (mumin) and then when you become a submitter (muslim) you say "aslamtu lirabi-l alameen"
    What do you think?

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • A Offline
      A Offline
      almarh0m
      wrote on last edited by
      #12

      Salamun alaykum

      Contrary to what Idolfree1 said Only your Deepest Thoughts and Actions Matter, I know for Certain thatOnly Our Action that Matters , Thoughts, Intentions per se Do Not Count .

      Cheers

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • P Offline
        P Offline
        palestina
        wrote on last edited by
        #13

        no i think intention/thoughts also count

        335 .... You are not to blame for any honest mistake you make but only for what your hearts premeditate.

        Your deepest thoughts matter when they affect an action...

        Although here i was talking just about the shahada in general - i agree with idolfree1 in that respect - god knows what is in our hearts, and sees what we do. Both are relevant.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • A Offline
          A Offline
          almarh0m
          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          Peace Ay

          That is your Prerogative ( to think whatever you like ), But if Intention, Thoughts and Statement counts then please see 631 Regarding The Sahada . Is the Sahada a Statement Bearing Witness about God upon accepting Islam? Then Why Ibrahim , one of the Great Prophets when Allah asked him to Aslamo , he Replied with Aslamto li Rabbil alamiin ? 2140.
          Also God, The Malaikats and Thinking People all saying La Ilaha Illa Allah ( 318 ).

          Cheers

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • P Offline
            P Offline
            palestina
            wrote on last edited by
            #15

            Salam!

            Im still exploring what the shahada is to be honest... i do think that abrahams statement rings true and i feel it has more depth than just affirming that there is no God but God, but to actually submit willingly to His will....

            i think 631 is specific about hypocrites - ie. they say one thing but in their hearts is something else (ie. they dont believe in him as a messenger) so that is why intention counts.

            And I am not of the belief that the second part of the shahada is valid anyways i think it is just to affirm that "la illaha illa allah" and to submit as Abraham did seems right to me....

            but of course im a very confused person so theres a big chance im wrong about things!

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • L Offline
              L Offline
              loli
              wrote on last edited by
              #16

              Salam almarh0m

              Im with you. I would say the 318 says the real "shahdah"

              318 God witnessed that He, (there is) no God except He, and the angels and those of the knowledge (He is) keeping up/taking care of with the just/equitable, no God except He, the glorious , the wise/judicious .

              -->God and the angels and those of the knowledge witnessed/testified that there is no God except God alone.

              peace

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • U Offline
                U Offline
                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                Peace ay, all,

                i think 631 is specific about hypocrites - ie. they say one thing but in their hearts is something else (ie. they dont believe in him as a messenger) so that is why intention counts.

                And I am not of the belief that the second part of the shahada is valid anyways i think it is just to affirm that "la illaha illa allah" and to submit as Abraham did seems right to me....

                Witnessing something that one has not seen or witnessed is tantamount to lying and that is why Allah said that the hypocrites were liars when they witnessed the messengership, because they had not witnessed it.

                Even the Messenger himself did not witness his own messengership but said God is sufficient as a witness !!!

                1343 And those who reject Say "You are not a messenger." Say "God is sufficient as a witness between me and you, the One who has the knowledge of the Scripture."

                SHAHADA means to witness/testify, not believe. We are required to BELIEVE in the mesengership, not witness/testify it, for which God is sufficient.

                4828 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it would expose all other systems. And God is sufficient as a witness.

                Thus saying "la ilaha ilallah" would be affirmation (7158, 9129, 1330, 3865), but saying "ash hadu an la ilaha ilallah" would be witnessing/testifying, and this can be done only by those with knowledge from among the humans.

                318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the Angels, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.

                Now can we affirm the messengership of Muhammad alone instead of witnessing/testifying ? I don't think so because then we will be differentiating between the messengers by not affirming all the messengers in that sentence, which would be an impossible task because we don't know the names of hundreds of messengers, but only those we have been told about in al-qur'aan. We have been told not to differentiate between any of the messengers.

                2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengers "We do not differentiate between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny."

                Declaration of one's submission/peacefulness/islam is, however, done by saying "aslamtu li rabbi al-3alameen" as per Abraham

                2131 When his Lord said to him "Submit," he said "I submit to the Lord of the worlds."

                It follows that

                DECLARATION OF ISLAM Aslamtu li rabbi al-3alameen (2131)

                AFFIRMATION OF ONE GOD La ilaha ilallah (7158, 9129, 1330, 3865)

                SHAHADA Ash hadu an la ilaha ilallah (only for those with knowledge, 31

                Hope that helps and clarifies any confusion.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • P Offline
                  P Offline
                  palestina
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  peace tanveer, all,

                  yes thank you! your explanation was excellent! i was just confusing myself with what each declaration was! now it makes sense!

                  cheers!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • S Offline
                    S Offline
                    siki
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    Tanveer !
                    keep up the good work. bravo
                    peace
                    siki

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • A Offline
                      A Offline
                      adley
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #20

                      Salaam Ay,

                      Everything on shahada issue boils down to one question Is The God and The God alone enough?
                      If you're still confused, then don't rush. ;D

                      =adley=

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      Reply
                      • Reply as topic
                      Log in to reply
                      • Oldest to Newest
                      • Newest to Oldest
                      • Most Votes


                      • Login

                      • Don't have an account? Register

                      • Login or register to search.
                      • First post
                        Last post
                      0
                      • Categories
                      • Recent
                      • Users