Sunnah...AGAIN!!
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Salam Jankren,
The imam, made no distinction about whether he was following the sunnah in the quran, or sunnah with hadiths, is there such a thing as a sunnah in the quran, besides the sunnah itself? I am so confused!! I was thinking that the sunnah was some additional wording about the way of life ??? ARGGGG brickwall I just dont get this sunnah thing, I am not talking philosophically about the sunnah. I am talking about a physical sunnah, or worded sunnah that one follows besides the Quran.
Sheesh! Even I'm confused about what I am trying to clarify! lol confused
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Peace Honor,
Ok Ok, I know I posted sunnah topic before but it was never answered like I wanted. Please when someone says they follow the quran and the sunnah, what is the sunnah theyre talking about.
The Arabic common noun "sunnah" literally means "a way or a manner of acting". Linguistically, it is not a religious word.
Although the term "sunnah" occurs a number of times in the great reading, it never refers to the example of the prophet, but mostly to the manner in which the god chose to deal with the previous people who rejected the message of prophets sent to them.
For example, and Imam I am talking with says he does not belong to a sect, is not a sunni nor shia, yet claims to follow the sunnah, well what sunnah is he following??
If you want to know which Sunnah he follows, simply observe the Imam while he is performing his ritualistic prayers.
- According to three of the Sunni sub sects (Hanafi, Shafi`i and Hanbali), it is Sunnah to put the right hand over the left on the stomach while standing.
- According to the fourth Sunni sub sect (Maliki), it is Sunnah to put the hands at the side while standing.
- According to the majority of Shia, putting the right hand over the left on the stomach while standing nullifies the ritualistic prayers and results in the person going to hell.
When I say that we must follow the sunnah of the Quran he agrees, but implies he is following something other than the sunnah of the Quran. Even that he does not follow hadiths..isnt the sunnah like a hadith? Something that describes ways or examples of how we should live in islam like the prophet???
Until the late 8th century CE, sunnah was an abstraction which encompasses the practice of anyone (typically of the past). Despised practices were also referred to with this term. Thus, in quranic commentaries such as those of Ibn Kathir, there are no attempts to equate certain terms from scripture with Sunna. It was Al-Shafii (d. 820) who was the first to try and link up a quranic term with Sunnah, in an attempt to provide scriptural evidence for his insistence that Sunnah should be equated automatically with Sunnat al- nabi (manner of acting of the prophet). The word chosen by him was "7ikma" (wisdom), but even after his lifetime this identification does not seem to have caught on with other jurists. And, finally, the passage that comes to mind most readily as offering a good opportunity for tracing the concept of Sunnah of the prophet in the great reading, namely 3321, ?You had in the messenger of the god a perfect example...?, was not even hinted at by Al-Shafii. It is Ahmad bin Hanbal (d. 855) who mentions 3321 in connection with his arguments for Sunnah.
Finally, the invention of authority for Sunnah was completed in the first chapter of the Sunan of al- Darimi (d. 869) where a number of traditions and opinions on Sunnah vis-?-vis the great reading are listed. In there, the statement "Al-sunnah qadiyat 3aly al-quran wa laysa al-quran bi-qadi 3aly al-sunnah" (i.e. The Sunnah abrogates/eliminates/judges the great reading but not vice-versa) is ascribed to an early authority but is probably Al-Darimi's own handiwork.
Sunnis or Ahl-Al-Sunna were in the minority until the Abbasid Caliph Al-Mutawakil adopted the Ahl Al-Sunna dogma as the official creed of the Abbasid Empire. Before that time, there were disputes between, for example, theologians of the Qadariyya, Murji3a, Rafi3a and Mu3tazila. On the other hand, the Ahl al-sunna, busily searching for Sunnahs, were out of their depth and constituted no match for them. Among these theologians Ahl al-sunna even acquired the derogatory nickname "7ashawiya" (those that stuff), predominantly because of their credulity with respect to collecting/stuffing large quantity of traditions. Ahl Al-Sunna were regarded as Ahl Al-Bid3a (the people of invention of dogma). Thus, the ranks of Ahl al-sunna were rapidly swollen by anyone who wanted to promote a dogmatic idea and could produce a tradition to support it. Large numbers of traditionalists harboring one or more dogmatic ideas ("bid3a" joined their ranks. Various contemporary sources convey the impression that Ahl al-sunnah began to constitute the majority in the Abbasid Empire after the theological squabbles had been decided in their favor by Al-Mutawakil.
Also, what does this sunnah entail?
No one really knows. Thus, there is no agreement amongst Sunnis on what it entails. Ask the above question to two Sunnis and you will get different answers.
I mean are there like specific things this sunnah says for sunnis? What are they?
The things that it says ranges from the superficial such as "growing the beard and shaving the moustache" to the silly such as "men should wear a funny short robe", the disgusting such as "drink camel urine for good health" and "if a fly falls in your food, dip it and eat", and the monstrous such as "stoning people to death" and "enslaving and raping the women of a defeated populace" (lucky for the people of Iraq that GW is not Sunni).
I would like to know specfics to see if I agree with the imams sunnah, or dispute it. Also I would like to know the sunnis sunnah, to know what my husband who is sunni means by following the sunnah, because he seems to have no words to explain, likely because he follows hadiths...unfortunately he is blind.
As you noticed, Hadith and Sunnah are intertwined. They parallel the Mishna and the Gemara in Talmudic Judaism. The Mishna is essentially collected traditions traced back to early Judaism (i.e., Jewish Hadith) and the Gemara is the rabbinic view on the manner of acting (Sunnah) based on Mishna. Together, the Mishna and Gemara form the Talmud. So essentially, the Hadith and Sunnah are the sectarian equivalent of the Talmud.
Anyway please help!! I am meeting with the Imam and a scholar to find commonality so that we can all agree on major issues, to have as ammunition against my husband, in making him not want to divorce, by disproving him, So I need to make sure I agree with the Imam on what the sunnah means.
Some of the historic facts about Sunnah can be briefly presented as follows
- The term "sunnah" is NEVER used in the great reading to refer to the "sunnah of the prophet". The Arabic common noun "sunnah" (as opposed to the invented proper name Sunnah which is a meaningless label) literally means "a way or a manner of acting", which can be good or bad. Linguistically, it is not a religious word.
- The first to introduce the idea of the Sunnah of the prophet being second to the great reading is Shafii.
- Sunnism is a dogmatic innovation that became a recognized creed only at the hands of the Abbasid Caliph Al Mutawakil.
From a more practical sense, some of the logical problems with Sunnah are
- The so-called Sunnah is concerned primarily with the superficial such as where to put your hands while performing the ritualistic prayer, etc.
- Many people may claim to follow the manner of acting (Sunnah) prescribed in Hadith but in fact they never do. For example, no sane person will drink camel urine or dip flies in his food as prescribed in Hadiths. If a society really tries to implement Sunnah, you will get a medieval and backward society (think Taliban).
- The so-called Sunnah promotes tyranny and many evils. It doesn't promote peacefulness, which is the only obligation acceptable to the god.
By now you probably know more about the reality of Sunnism than most Sunnis, including the Imam who is trying to "convert" you.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salam Aleikum Brother Ayman sun
Shokran for all your wonderful help. Finally I am peace. This was exactly what I was looking for. I suspect the imam, is going to try and convert me to his way of believing in the sunnah, as you suspect; since he claims "to follow the quran and then the sunnah" So , despite his attempt to please me by claiming he belongs to no sect, it is somewhat apparent that he will attempt to sway me to a sunni sunnah belief. well, too bad, he's wasting his time. I just hope, and pray that he is clear headed after I am done speaking with him, he can either help me to save my marriage by persuading my husband that he is being a unneccessary tyrant for trying to divorce me, just because i do not send special prayers to Muhammad (PBUH), or the Imam can ignore my position and try to convince me to do what my husband wants just to please him, in any case, pray for me. If this Imam, that claims to follow the quran and god,and no sect, supports me, it may just be the support I need to save my marriage. And please pray for me that my husband, is guided by god, and the veil is lifted so that he is no longer blind, and abuses me and threatens to divorce me for my beliefs. I always tell my husband, let us not find differences, but commonality, let us enjoin together that we believe the three most important things One god, and only one god, the quran is our law, and muhammad is the last prophet who brought the message of the Quran.
On the off topic note Are you from the USA? And where may I ask? I am located in Oregon, so I am always looking for people close to me.
Honor
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Peace everyone,
One thing I forgot to add were the references (thank you brother Al-Quraishi for kindly reminding me).
For the source of the meaning of the word "sunna", you can see any Classical Arabic dictionary such as Lisan Al-3arab.
Also, for the history and meaning look in Enc. Of Islam II under "Sunna".
For the role of Shafii in inventing the so-called Sunna, you can see
Wael B. Hallaq, "Was Al-shafii the master architect of Islamic jurisprudence?", in IJMES , xxv (1993), 587-605.
For hadiths, you can search in
http//hadith.al-islam.com
For example, the Hadith by Al-Darimi that I quoted, can be found here
http//hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=8&Rec=637
It is Hadith number 586.
Sister Honor, unfortunately I am on East Coast the other side of the continent. However, in a way this forum has brought us all closer together than with dogmatic sectarians who may be right next door.
Thank you brother Siki for your encouragement. I will try to add my 2 cents whenever I can.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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The things that it says ranges from and "enslaving and raping the women of a defeated populace" (lucky for the people of Iraq that GW is not Sunni).
See http//www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1810326,00.html
Sorry for the out-of-topic -
Jazak Allah Khair Brother Ayman
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Hi Ayman-
It was a privilege to read the writings of someone as knowledgeable as you. Thank you. I look forward to reading more of what you have to share.
Honor, my prayers that your challenges will be resolved in a manner that is best for you.
May peace be upon you-
Samir -
Salam~
Thank you for your prayers Sabboushi, I appreciate it. I need them, so it means alot. Ayman, thank you for all your knowledge in this matter, anytime you can share a post would be great, I haven't seen you on this forum much. Its nice to have your input.
sun Honor