What is the Quran's position on Israel?
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PEace Bro
Yea when the movement of zionism just started, before they openly announced their desire for the creation of israel, they had these really wealthy zionists make "the jewish fund" and any jew from anywhere in the world can withdraw money from it to purchase palestinian land. if you look back at palestinian newspapers at the time you can tell the palis were so naiive about it. they had no clue. the overall feeling was sympathy for their long lost brothers. jews always inhabited the land with them but these european jews were being persecuted. so the palis figured there's plenty of land to go around and sold property to them so they wouldn't have to go back to anti-semetic europe. little did they know that any jew that withdrew money from this fund also had to sign a contract stating that they will never allow for any palestinian to ever buy back the land. they could only sell it to a fellow jew. not only that, but they also signed off that they would never hire any pali to work the land. palestinians are farmers by custom and tradition. so it was racist from the very start. it created this atmosphere of the european jew thinking that they are better than the palis, which set the scene for social conflict and eventually a growing fear between the palis that they're getting the rug pulled from under them. its really very interesting when you read the pali news of that time. some people started to doubt the good intentions of the zionists but the mainstream brushed it off as just "crazy conspiracy theories" and unjustified paranoia.
even the pali jews that were there since the beginning of time started to feel strange about the zionists that were slowly trickling in.
anyways i totally agree with you that there's gotta be some serious reconciliation going on.... i don't know how to undo so many years of pain on both sides though... it seems like a trying task indeed
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I do not support the one state idea. I believe Palestine should be partitioned into two. Let us get real, it is a fact that any Israelis would rather live under Israeli Govt then Palestinian/Muslim Govt. The same thing with the other side. Any Palestinians would rather live under Palestinian Govt than Israeli/Jewish Govt.
In addition, the conflict in Palestine is mainly due to the fight over Jerusalem. Therefore, I believe the city should be made international neutral zone. Preferably, the UN headquarter should also be moved there. This solution is basically in a way similar to what Saladin did in solving the fight over the right to keep the key to the Church of Holy Sepulcher among various Christian factions when he conquered Jerusalem. Instead of taking side, he gave the key to a neutral Muslim family which has been responsible to open and close the gate to the church for about 1000 years until today.
Anyway, as for Al Quran's position on this issue, the book was revealed before the creation of modern Israel. So, figure it out yourself ...
Peace ,
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Ya know, that is a good idea. Divide the land into two and make Jerusalem nuetral ground. Maybe like this http//i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/Spartan156/untitled.jpg (I just noticed that dead sea isnt there)
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Thank you all for your replies, but what does the Quran say?
Perhaps the following verses give the answer
2190-194 And kill/fight in God's way/sake those who kill/fight you, and do not transgress/violate, that God does not love/like the transgressors/violators. And fight/kill them, where/when you defeated/caught up with them, and bring/drive them out from where/when they brought/drove you out, and the treason/misguidance (is) stronger (worse than) the fighting/killing, and do not fight/kill them at the Mosque the Forbidden/Sacred, until they fight/kill you in it, so uf they fought/killed you, so fight/kill them, like that is the disbelievers' reward/reimbursement. So if they ended/stopped, so that God (is) forgiving, most merciful. And fight/kill them until (there) be no betrayal/misguidance, and the religion be to God, so if they ended/stopped, so no transgression/violation, except on the unjust/oppressive. The month, the forbidden/respected/sacred, with the month, the forbidden/respected/sacred, and the God's ordered prohibitions (are) equal revenge, so who transgressed/violated on you, so transgress/violate (revenge) on him with similar/equal (to) what he transgressed on you, and fear and obey God and know that God (is) with the fearing and obeying.
The above is Mohamed Ahmed, and his daughter Samira's translation. It's a tad hard to understand, but it's extremely useful because it's a literal translation.
2190 says fight back, but don't "transgress/violate" God's laws. Punishing a person for their parents' crime counts as transgression (and keeping out a person from the land that belonged to their parents is also a massive "transgression". 2191 tells you to oust those who ousted you. My understanding of 2191 is that you may oust a person who ousted you from your home, or oust a person who bars you from entering a home that should be yours.
2194 tells you to be very precise about what you avenge, and how much you avenge. 6164 tells us that no one's guilty of a sin or a crime that they didn't (or don't) have anything to do with.
All in all, I believe that the Quran ordains a one state solution (and the end of zionism, oppression, and anti-semitism). Am I right to conclude this? Does someone have any Quranic reason to believe otherwise?
Can't the world be a bit like group ?
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Salam,
The Quran gives us its teachings that all land that was taken by force may be returned by force and that those who have invaded are to be driven out from the lands they have invaded.
I believe the argument about these being 2nd or 3rd generation invaders is irrelevant as they know where they are and what has been done.
If I were a zionist and I wanted to remain in Paestine, I would ask the Palestinians for forgiveness and plead to allow me and my family to remain in a Palestine under their rule.
However, we know that this will not happen, and we also know from the Quranb (sura 17) that the end of Israel will be in utter defeat at the hands of those who entered the Temple the first time.
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Peace,
Layth, don't you think that Surah 17 refers to what happened to the Israelites in the past at the hands of the Babylonians?
They are descendants of those whom we carried with Noah; he was an appreciative servant. We addressed the Children of Israel in the scripture "You will commit gross evil on earth, twice. You are destined to fall into great heights of arrogance. When the first time comes to pass, we will send against you servants of ours who possess great might, and they will invade your homes. This is a prophecy that must come to pass. Afterwards, we will give you a turn over them, and will supply you with a lot of wealth and children; we will give you the upper hand. If you work righteousness, you work righteousness for your own good, but if you commit evil you do so to your own detriment. Thus, when the second time comes to pass, they will defeat you and enter the masjid, just as they did the first time. They will wipe out all the gains you had accomplished." Your Lord showers you with His mercy. But if you revert to transgression, we will counter with retribution. We have designated Gehenna as a final abode for the disbelievers.
I don't think the above verses apply to the Israelis for several reasons. The Quran refers to the Israelites having committed gross sins twice. The establishment of Israel was way more than a gross sin, but I'm not sure if that's what the Quran refers to. The temple referred to in these verses doesn't exist anymore. All that remains of it is a dilapidated wall.
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I think it would be unjust and really bad to house Palestinians and Israelis in the same country, it would just cause a civil war.
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How is it unjust? Do you support a one state solution for Israel or Palestine?
A one state solution for both groups if that is what the Quran says.
What is now Israel belongs to the Palestinianian refugees because it once belonged to their forefathers. They're suffering heartache, poverty, and persecution because they're being deprived of territory that is rightfully theirs. And in my opinion, it also belongs to the second and third generation Israelis, because that's the only home they've known. It doesn't seem right to oust them from the land simply because their wretched forefathers usurped it. In my mind, the only fair solution would be a single state for both groups. However, I want to know God's position on all of this. God always has the best solution.
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You make a good point, God does always have the best solution.
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I think that when it comes to territories, countries, nations its little more complicated than when dealing with individual cases.
By the logic of forgiveness, don't you think that today's Americans should apologise to native Indians for driving them out of their lands to almost a complete extinction?? Guided by the Quran principals, should we even live in a country that has done such a barbarian act?
Don't you think that fellow arabs should give back North Africa before asking for the land of Palestine back from the Jews? After all, Northern Africa was taken by sword with a lot of blood spilled.
Let me not waste your time with more examples from all over the world during different stages of history.By no means I want to defend the creation of Israel in the manner that it has happened, but our approach is not praise worthy either.
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Salaam,
I think one can imagine a position of Qur'an in these verses
"God is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His"
"Surely (as for) those whom the angels cause to die while they are unjust to their souls, they shall say In what state were you? They shall say We were weak in the earth. They shall say Was not God?s earth spacious, so that you should have migrated therein? So these it is whose abode is hell, and it is an evil resort "
"O My servants who believe! surely My earth is vast, therefore Me alone should you serve."
Everything in the earth belongs to God ; we are just "managers" of God's belongings. The question is not if this or that land belongs to this or that people but the real question is who is oppressing who? The muslim is told to help the oppressed, whatever his religion.
Peace
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Peace all,
I have to say it seems people are oversimplifiying the issue..... when i travelled to palestine/israel last year I was shocked and became very depressed. It is impossible to turn back time, and believe it or not, most Israelis live in complete ignorance about Palestinians - they are raised to believe that Palestinians came (from Egypt) and took THEIR land - which at first they were happy to share - but then the Palestinians got greedy and started fighting for more! I have seen ancient buildings with the arabic writing carved off - to be replaced with hebrew. History has been rewritten there. So how can you convince a 3rd generation Israeli Jew of the truth? They would never accept it as anything other than propaganda, because if they do, it would mean that their whole life has been a lie, and that everyone they trust has lied to them - everything they believe in will be shattered. So I dont know how a problem like that could ever be tackled. How do you get rid of Zionism???
As for a two state solution - that is a bad idea imo! It is too problematic - Israel would never allow it - the problem is much more than just Jerusalem. I mean - look at Gaza as an example - ok so they withdrew- but they control all boarders -land,air and sea! How can Palestinians live their lives like that? And then the rest of Palestine is on the other side of Israel - so you have to cut accross Israel to get to another city in your country? Never gonna work really. Then what happens to the Palestinians on the 48 boarder? They are treated as 2nd class citizens in Israel!
Israeli policy is racist and unjust - that must be changed to have any hope of a lasting peace.
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Peace Supernaut n all,
Peace,
Jewish immigrants from all over the world started settling in Palestine early in the twentieth century. These immigrants were tolerated upto a point, but then the Palestinians became hostile towards them. The Jewish people living in Palestine fought a war with the Palestinians and other Arab states, and then finally, the state of Israel was established.
First, I would suggest we look further into this claim. I'm no expert, by no means in this subject, but lets clarify what you're talking about, if you can back it up, I would appreciate it. You say that Palestinians became hostile against the jews first, and then the jews fought a war with Palestinians? ??? Please explain.Personally, I think that the establishment of Israel was a murderous, horrible and oppressive crime against the Palestinians, but I don't think that today's Israelis (most of whom are third generation Israelis) should have to suffer the consequences of the crimes of their forefathers.
Your reasoning here is flawed. Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting malice on your part, I'm just trying to understand your conclusion. You agree about the establishment of this murderous tyranny and oppression, yet you say, that since it's 3 generations ago, they should forgive and forget. 2 things... (1) There are people still alive from the 60s war, should they forget that their families were killed unjustly? (2) You make it sound like their all living righteously and in peace NOW! They're STILL a muderous and terroristic regime!I believe Layth and others have pointed out to you in what quran says. Quran is quite clear in regard to oppression and tyranny. However, IMO, I don't think the 'one state' solution will ever work. Most of he Palestinians are fighting (with words or their lives) right now for a right to live. Some of their methods, I may not agree with, but to even suggest that the Palestinians are partly the cause, is absurd. Again, let's look at the history in the past half century or even a hundred years and perhaps that will clear out some misconceptions. Example...
It is impossible to turn back time, and believe it or not, most Israelis live in complete ignorance about Palestinians - they are raised to believe that Palestinians came (from Egypt) and took THEIR land - which at first they were happy to share - but then the Palestinians got greedy and started fighting for more!
Sad. And that type ignorance is prevalent all over the world as well, not just with Israelis.Peace
