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  3. Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.
  4. What is the purpose of the moon ???

What is the purpose of the moon ???

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.
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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    Rami
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Peace all,

    I was always reluctant to bring up this idea but its is bugging me. As we all know, the lunar year is shorter than the solar year by 11 days. So a purely lunar calendar is out of sync regarding the seasons and purely solar calendar neglects the moon completely. So the concept of a lunisolar calendar was adopted based on intercalation. Frankly, I think the lunisolar calendar is a bit of a joke. This is simply because in the second year all your dates will go back 11 days season-wise and then you will add an intercalary month when the difference becomes a month time. What is the point of all of this? Why don't we follow a purely solar calendar. All your dates will fall exactly at the same time season-wise. If you did, what is the purpose of the moon then?

    PS Most of the names of the Arab months are based on the seasons/climate eg. Ramadan means hot, Rabee' means spring, Jamadi mean freezing etc.

    Peace,

    Rami

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    • A Offline
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      ayman
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Peace Rami,

      I was always reluctant to bring up this idea but its is bugging me.

      No need to be reluctant. There is nothing wrong with your idea.

      As we all know, the lunar year is shorter than the solar year by 11 days. So a purely lunar calendar is out of sync regarding the seasons and purely solar calendar neglects the moon completely. So the concept of a lunisolar calendar was adopted based on intercalation. Frankly, I think the lunisolar calendar is a bit of a joke. This is simply because in the second year all your dates will go back 11 days season-wise and then you will add an intercalary month when the difference becomes a month time. What is the point of all of this? Why don't we follow a purely solar calendar. All your dates will fall exactly at the same time season-wise. If you did, what is the purpose of the moon then?

      You can follow any calendar you want. The words "calendar", "month" and "week" don't even occur in the great reading. There is no prohibition on following whatever calendar you want. The problem arises when someone takes whatever arbitrary calendar they are using and claim that the god has to conform to that calendar. The god doesn't care about calendars. For the timing of the hunting restriction, the abstinence and the feast, the god gives us universal markers that are independent of culture and whatever humans decide to do or not to do. Those markers are universal cosmic phenomenon that can be easily witnessed by anyone. The clearest and easiest to witness cosmic phenomenon in the night sky is the full-moon. Since wild life and harvest are aligned with the seasons, the hunting restriction and the feast also have to be aligned with the seasons. This is why the god gave us the most simple and fool-proof mechanism to align the full-moon with the seasons. We simply have to count exactly 12 full-moons every solar year and skip counting the occasional 13th full-moon. It cannot be any simpler and clearer.

      PS Most of the names of the Arab months are based on the seasons/climate eg. Ramadan means hot, Rabee' means spring, Jamadi mean freezing etc.

      There is zero evidence of an Arab month named Ramadan. The word ?ramadan? is a common noun that means ?scorching? and ?shahr ramadan? means ?scorching full-moon?. Also, Rabee? doesn?t mean spring. It means grazing. The grasses that promote grazing in Arabia grow in the spring and early fall. So in the past Rabee? Al-Awal used to be in the spring and Rabee? Al-Thani used to be in the fall. The Arabs divided the year into 4, 5, or 6 seasons. The present so-called Islamic calendar and its months were invented long after the Quran came down.

      Peace,

      Ayman

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      • R Offline
        R Offline
        Rami
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Peace Ayman,

        Ok I have three questions
        -When are the restricted months and what is the ''Nasee" ? What shall we do with the 13th moon, do we restrict it or leave it?
        -You said that shahr means full moon. Agreed. Usually the full moons are named after a concurrent phenemenon happening on the ground eg. Harvest Moon, Mead Moon etc. Could the word Ramadan mean something similar?
        -By this definition, we are told to fast the full moon of Ramadan which is only 1 day. D How is that possible?

        Peace,

        Rami

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        • A Offline
          A Offline
          ayman
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Peace Rami,

          Ok I have three questions
          -When are the restricted months and what is the ''Nasee" ? What shall we do with the 13th moon, do we restrict it or leave it?

          The word "months" doesn't occur in the great reading. The four restricted full-moons cover the period of the four full-moons after the summer solstice. There is a pretty long debate on this here, which shows all the views

          http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

          -You said that shahr means full moon. Agreed. Usually the full moons are named after a concurrent phenemenon happening on the ground eg. Harvest Moon, Mead Moon etc. Could the word Ramadan mean something similar?

          You are absoultely right, yes it does. Classical Arabic dictionaries tell us that the word "ramad" describes "red hot coals" and "burning red eyes". So it has two connotations, heat and the color red. This describes the full-moon after the summer solstice. Full Moons that occur close to the summer solstice are special because they follow the lowest path across the sky of all of the year's full Moons. For the same reason that sunsets are red, the low-hanging moon takes a reddish color as a result of scattered moonlight in Earth's dusty atmosphere (see my avatar). Our brains are also wired to perceive this moon as much larger than normal.

          -By this definition, we are told to fast the full moon of Ramadan which is only 1 day. D How is that possible?

          In the same way that it is possible for a woman to wait three full-moons before remarrying by not only waiting the 3 days of the full moons and get married in between. The full-moon is simply a marker. This is why 2184 tells us to abstain a few days (3-10 days) and 2185 tells us to complete the count (i.e., 10 days).

          Peace,

          Ayman

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          • A Offline
            A Offline
            ayman
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Peace Rami,

            Sorry, forgot to answer this one

            What shall we do with the 13th moon, do we restrict it or leave it?

            Leave it, in other words, skip it, not count it.

            Peace,

            Ayman

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            • G Offline
              G Offline
              God_Within
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Peace be upon you all,

              Also, the full moon is the best time monthly to program your nafs, as you are in the most receptive state(watery)...the best time of the Year is Winter Solstice.

              Your body is mostly water, brain included...The pull of the moon effects you greatly, that is why we have the term "LUNAtic".

              Just some food for thought )

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              • U Offline
                U Offline
                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Peace Rami,

                Sorry, forgot to answer this one

                Leave it, in other words, skip it, not count it.

                Peace,

                Ayman

                With respects to Br. Ayman,

                How can you say leave the count of a moon out? I am sure we can come up with a better system then this counting of moons.

                There isn't any such a system in the quran, and to say this is from God Almighty is utterely wrong.

                For that matter there arn't any moons in the quran - to my knowledge at all.

                My advice Please, Please see what else the word for a moon means in the lanes or some other dictionary.

                God Bless All.
                peace

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                • R Offline
                  R Offline
                  Rami
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  With respects to Br. Ayman,

                  How can you say leave the count of a moon out? I am sure we can come up with a better system then this counting of moons.

                  There isn't any such a system in the quran, and to say this is from God Almighty is utterely wrong.

                  For that matter there arn't any moons in the quran - to my knowledge at all.

                  My advice Please, Please see what else the word for a moon means in the lanes or some other dictionary.

                  God Bless All.
                  peace

                  Cheers,

                  So what do you think the calendar should be and if it's purely solar what is point of the moon cycles.

                  Peace,

                  Rami

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                  • U Offline
                    U Offline
                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Cheers,

                    So what do you think the calendar should be and if it's purely solar what is point of the moon cycles.

                    Peace,

                    Rami

                    No calendar in the quran , as there arn't any hours,days,months they don't make you any more or less righteous.

                    The quran is about evilness and righteousness as far as i know.

                    So follow which ever calender suits you best- now a days i think we use the atomic clock for time keeping and a calender based on the solar system or something,isn't it? does it matter?

                    peace

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                    • A Offline
                      A Offline
                      ayman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Peace Simple,

                      How can you say leave the count of a moon out? I am sure we can come up with a better system then this counting of moons.

                      Well then please propose a better and more natural timing system that is independent of culture and level of technology.

                      Peace,

                      Ayman

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        mavera
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        i'm using solar calendar myself, but i could not clear my mind for this ayath

                        105 He is the One who made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years
                        and the calculation. God has not created this except for truth. He details the signs for a people who know.

                        what do you think of it?

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                        • R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Rami
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          i'm using solar calendar myself, but i could not clear my mind for this ayath

                          105 He is the One who made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years
                          and the calculation. God has not created this except for truth. He details the signs for a people who know.

                          what do you think of it?

                          That the moon should be used. There is a rock in the sky that go through phases for timing. Thats it. The moon is all about timing. People who are possessed by the seasons will pursue the Sun. Why is it that God made the moon's 12 cycles shorter than the solar year by eleven days? I can't figure the reason till this day.

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                          • U Offline
                            U Offline
                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Peace Simple,

                            Well then please propose a better and more natural timing system that is independent of culture and level of technology.

                            Peace,

                            Ayman

                            What on earth is wrong with the one that is in use the world over?

                            Of course in places where it may not be apropriate - i am sure other system will emerge.

                            peace

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                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              ayman
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Peace Simple,

                              What on earth is wrong with the one that is in use the world over?
                              Of course in places where it may not be apropriate - i am sure other system will emerge.

                              I didn't say that there is anything wrong with it (apart from it being largely arbitrary). You are the one who said that you can come up with a better system than counting 12 full moons in a solar year and skipping the occasional 13th moon. If you can't come up with a better system then your original statement was not accurate.

                              Peace,

                              Ayman

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                              • B Offline
                                B Offline
                                belH
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Why is it that God made the moon's 12 cycles shorter than the solar year by eleven days? I can't figure the reason till this day.

                                Peace all
                                That where I found a good answer

                                http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596845.0

                                Peace

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                                • U Offline
                                  U Offline
                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Peace Simple,

                                  I didn't say that there is anything wrong with it (apart from it being largely arbitrary). You are the one who said that you can come up with a better system than counting 12 full moons in a solar year and skipping the occasional 13th moon. If you can't come up with a better system then your original statement was not accurate.

                                  Peace,

                                  Ayman

                                  Sorry Br.Ayman,

                                  I meant why not use the far superior systems already established , rather then using a hindu system which isn't even part of the quran-which people take it to be.
                                  peace

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                                  • A Offline
                                    A Offline
                                    ayman
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Peace Simple,

                                    I meant why not use the far superior systems already established , rather then using a hindu system which isn't even part of the quran-which people take it to be.

                                    How is the already established arbitrary Roman system "far superior"? What is so special or universal about an arbitrary month called February? If you went into a coma and woke up, can you figure out on your own that it is now February 18, even if you had a calendar?

                                    Peace,

                                    Ayman

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                                    • U Offline
                                      U Offline
                                      unknownuser
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Peace Simple,

                                      How is the already established arbitrary Roman system "far superior"? What is so special or universal about an arbitrary month called February? If you went into a coma and woke up, can you figure out on your own that it is now February 18, even if you had a calendar?

                                      Peace,

                                      Ayman

                                      Br Ayman,

                                      i will let you decide

                                      http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597913.0

                                      peace

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