Sunni Fatwas against Quranists
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Greetings everyone,
Jankeen you make a good point.
Also i would like to comment on the Sunnah. Okay fine. I believe in God and obey God. I also Obey the messenger. But tell me, what did the messenger obey? Did he obey directly God or did he bargain out his own Sunnah + God's?
I see mistakes as opportunity to learn tricks against life. God makes us mistake for a purpose. Logically it makes sense that the best way to learn something is the hard way. If you rely on someone's experience without having your's then you are unexperienced. One must first deny, a doubt then a logic things in order to understand something. No one is born a muslim or a sunni or a qur'anist since day 1. Call it whatever you want. I believe in a source creator and i always ask him to guide me although i mistake senselessly. I am human being. I am capable of understanding thru trial-error. So take your time & keep it honest.
-peace
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Greetings, weinmar
Here is a hadith that goes along what you are saying
attributed to Prophet Mohammed "All human beings make mistakes. And the best of those who make mistakes are those who repent."
Now, I am pretty open minded and many Hadith are very wise, that being said using them for legislation and guidance is unacceptable as they have not been authorized by The Creator.
Otherwise He would have decreed that Scribes will write down what Mohammed says and does besides the Quran.
Allah is very precise.
He would never ever leave such important matters open for debate. Because they should not arise in the first place, only the Quran is the Source of Legislation and Guidance... -
peace
what i'm curious about is that we all ask God to guide us to the straight path the path of those whom He has blessed, not those who have incurred the wrath, nor the misguided. then how come sunnis follow other books along side of the qur'an, as i have seen it they follow hadith more then qur'an.
i'm wondering are they guided? are they on the right path?also, i was talking to some sunni guy who tried to convince me that i must follow sunna and hadith and he says it says so in the qur'an for example 3334 And recall all that is being recited in your homes of God's revelations and the wisdom. God is Sublime, Expert.
the sunni guy told me that this wisdom means to follow hadith and sunna.
but what exactly is this wisdom? -
Salam guys,
I get frustrated a lot at other brothers and sisters and the way they act. The Islamic community I belong to is VERY diverse, we have Arabs, Malaysians, Indians, Turks, Nigerians, Iranians, Somalis, Uzbeks - pretty much everyone from the Islamic world.
And in my community it has been only the Arabs and young Malaysians who take part in sorting out the society around the Masjid. In terms of salah however, only the Arabs, and the small number of Nigerians and Indians in our community ever turn up to anything that isn't Jumuah, there is rarely any participation from Malaysians bar one brother. Anyway, a few years back, because the Arabs (by no means of exclusion) took their own restricted time out to run the show and provide our community with weeky Khutbas etc and because their English wasn't good, the Khutba would be in Arabic, I would provide an English bayan after for the benefit of the non-Arabs which was pretty much the talk that was listened to as at the time 60% of the community was Malay.
Anyway, the brother who would give the Khutba is a very close Saudi friend of mine, he's what would be classed as a Sunni of the Hanbali madhab, but this may be a surprise to a lot of you perhaps due to negative experiences, he is VERY open minded and I consider him to be very sincere in his religion but Allah knows best. Anyway, Mawlid was coming up, so we decided to give a khutba on Bid'ah and how there are only two Eids and non of this innovated crap. His Khutba and consequently my bayan gave all the clear and correct arguments as to why this was a clear innovation and the negative things relating to it, we quoted clearly from the Qur'an.
As usual, because of their ignorance of Arabic (even know many of them could recite swathes and swathes of the Qur'an yet not understand a word) I would get the flak for that week's Khutba. The one Malaysian brother who ever bothered to turn up for Salah came up to me afterwards and went on about how we shouldn't be telling people to not celebrate Mawlid, as usual it was as if the clear arguments meant nothing and all that mattered was that tradition was preserved.
So, later it was Mawlid, and seriously this Malaysian community (no offense to any individual Malays here) spent a week coming to the Masjid in circles reciting Malay supplications, I had never seen so much enthusiasm, it seemed even greater than Ramadan. So me and the then Egyptian Imam of the Masjid came for Asr prayer, we stood to the side and waited until it was Asr time while the Malaysians took part in their festivities, one Malaysian (the eldest with a Kufi) saw the beard on my companion and the fact that we were Arabs smiled shook our hands enthusiastically and then started speaking to us simple sentences in broken Arabic.
He was the first to go, it was 10 minutes to Asr and the whole lot bar the one Malaysian who attended prayer (and had a go at me) left the Masjid, I couldn't believe it. I find it very stressful to argue, I hate arguing with people even when they're clearly in the wrong, and I just looked at this brother who attended this mawlid celebration and watched his brothers leave with utter disbelief. How the hell can he argue to me that we shouldn't be telling them to celebrate these innovations and concentrate on the Islamic things?
Another Malay brother was obsessed with ridiculous hadith, and once told me I shouldn't walk whilst drinking, again this brother only turns up once a week and his workplace is very close to the Masjid. It just goes to show what people will put ahead of the religion, they spend their entire time busying themselves with superstitious traditions and avoid completely the real stuff.
Whatever a Qur'an aloner believes about Salah, Jumuah what have you, these traditionalists are being hypocrites to their own 'Sunni' orthodox. And God talks about this regarding the Ahl Al-Kitab.
I have a bucketload of these stories, the important thing they have taught me, is the proof of what God says in the Qur'an about the human insistence in innovation and communities that forsake guidance for error.
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Peace Bro Al-Quraishi
The reason people like to add things to their faith is because they do not want to commit.
Commitment is central in Islam (the Islam of Allah not the fabrications and the lies, which are an insult to Allah).
Can't we (and the sunnis and shias) see that the Hadith are the source of most of our divisions and defeats?
But such is human nature, they like to cling to what they invented, claiming and believing that it makes them superiors... -
Peace Jankren, all,
That is the problem with later Muslims until today. We are too afraid to make a mistake which could displease God that we ask the 'priests' about every single trivial thing just to make sure it is the right thing to do. Thus, as a result the Muslims' minds become shackled by fear of doing something wrong. There is no way we can discover new things if we are even afraid to step into a building with the wrong foot or eat using the wrong hand.
Yes, but the fear itself is perpetuated by the clergy. This is from the second link Nabster provided
For the average ?rank and file? Muslim, his madhhab is that of his mufti or the scholar whom he consults for religious verdicts; he must ask those pious scholars whom he trusts for opinions when necessary.
This then boils down to the crux of this thread. A Sunni fatwa against "quaranists" is essentially a fatwa againt critical thinking and individual growth. It is a threat to the clergy because there is absolutely no reference to any clergy within the quran. People have become so dumbed down with fear of incurring God's wrath, that they can't even wipe their own butts without making sure they're using the proper hand.
temptPeace,
Tay -
Peace nerspi,
3334 And recall all that is being recited in your homes of God's revelations and the wisdom. God is Sublime, Expert.
the sunni guy told me that this wisdom means to follow hadith and sunna.
but what exactly is this wisdom?The term used, translated as "revelation" is actually "ayati". The quran is not the sign, but the signs are within the quran. Further, the conjunction "wa" translated as "and" does not necessarily indicate 2 separate subjects. For instance, "he's tall and athletic". The "and" here performs the connection of 2 adjectives describing the same subject.
Thus, God's signs and wisdom are both contained in the quran.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Bro Al-Quraishi
The reason people like to add things to their faith is because they do not want to commit.
Commitment is central in Islam (the Islam of Allah not the fabrications and the lies, which are an insult to Allah).
Can't we (and the sunnis and shias) see that the Hadith are the source of most of our divisions and defeats?
But such is human nature, they like to cling to what they invented, claiming and believing that it makes them superiors...Salam Nabster,
Yeah, it's a real furstration, I just hope that I am not and never will turn into one of these people!
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Salam Nabster,
Yeah, it's a real furstration, I just hope that I am not and never will turn into one of these people! (
Salam al-Quraishi,
Well, since you're already here... this place will prevent you from doing so!