Obey the Messenger
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Salam,
It is my current understanding that anyone who speaks of God's message or gives it to another is in-deed a messenger.
Remember that one of the reasons most of us reject al-haddith is because we focus on the message and not the person giving the message.
So perhaps when we are told to ?obey the messenger? we are supposed to obey the message being given to us by that person (whether they are "good" or "bad".
Remember that even a person who is a criminal, evil/mean or otherwise ?bad? who tells you that you should at times
give to charity or
worship God, etc.is giving the message of God in that moment.
In that split moment he is a messenger.And in that moment you know that the words are true and that you must obey those words.
If the Quran is for all time and these words are spoken in present tense, then it is logical to conclude that this is something we must do yesterday, tomorrow, and today (for all time).
The messenger is anyone giving the word of God.
And we must obey God?s messages.
Of course this is provided that the one reading this understands that when Muhammad is called the seal of the prophets it does not mean that he is the ?end? of the prophets. Muhammad was the "seal" or "impression" of the prophets and in fact we are told of the prophets through Muhammad.
The word that is translated as ?seal? iskha-ta-miim defined as
in Classical Arabic
- to stamp, seal, imprint, or impress upon something
- the impressing of a seal or an impression of a signet or a stamp
in Hebrew
- to seal, seal up, affix a seal
- to seal up, fasten up by sealing
In Ancient Hebrew
Kh/ch The tent was divided into two sections, with a wall separating the tent in "half". A wall could signify many things.
Ta The picture of two crossed sticks is a mark such as a "target" one aims at when shooting. A mark is used as a sign to identify someone or something.
Miim The picture is of the waves of water on the sea. The sea was seen by the Hebrews as a mighty and chaotic (from the storms) place but also a source of life.As to the Ancient Hebrew, one possible definition that falls in line with the history of the usage of the word (but by no means the only interpretation) could be
Placing a mark (ta) on a chaotic and mighty (meem) divider/wall (kh/ch) (a ?stamp, seal or impression.?)This interpretation would be based on Semitic grammar which would place Kh (the noun or subject) before the adjectives (ta and meem).
Of course this is left open for interpretation.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace Arnold,
You put together a good and well researched case on the meanings of "obeying The Messenger" and "Hikmah".
There are still quite a few points I believe as incorrect, but this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.Peace Arnab,
You made very good points about Messengers, and conveying The Message.
There is a Hadith in support to this
Attributed to Mohammed (pbuh) Companions of the Prophet came to him and asked him If we are doing bad deeds, do we still have to enjoin people not to do them. He replied Yes indeed, you must, per chance they will amend their behavior and remind you by forbidding you not to do them (the bad deeds).
Now it is a bit cheeky of me to use Hadith to justify Islamic things, but so many Hadith have been carved into my mind, it is hard not to... -
Peace Arnab,
You made very good points about Messengers, and conveying The Message.
There is a Hadith in support to this
Attributed to Mohammed (pbuh) Companions of the Prophet came to him and asked him If we are doing bad deeds, do we still have to enjoin people not to do them. He replied Yes indeed, you must, per chance they will amend their behavior and remind you by forbidding you not to do them (the bad deeds).
Now it is a bit cheeky of me to use Hadith to justify Islamic things, but so many Hadith have been carved into my mind, it is hard not to...Peace all
612-3 O you who believe! why do you say that which you do not do? It is most hateful to Allah that you should say that which you do not do.
Thanks, Hamsa
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Peace RasulHamsa
Thank you.
Yet another Hadith / Quran seeming contradiction...
Unless what the Prophet was purported to say was before that Ayat you kindly quote. (that being said, I have a friend who is a Medical Doctor and is a heavy smoker, he advises his patients not to smoke...
Salutations of Peace
Noble -
Peace Arnold
You elaborated well in your article about ethical and legal matters that could arise in communities for which the Quran does not have ready answers, and that the answer for those should be found out using common sense, science, logic, and principles laid out in the Quran.
As each community encounter different challenges, I agree with you that an elected Leader is unavoidable.
I wish to give you an interesting (and sad example) of "Leaders" who renege their responsibilities.
In the late 1980's, a Muslim Cleric Mufti in London was approached by a young man whose friend was dying of AIDS.
He asked the Mufti what does his friend need to do?
The Mufti said People come to me with matters that are out of the realm of Islam, and so is your case, therefore I am sorry I cannot help you...
Amazing is it not? -
Salam,
Companions of the Prophet came to him and asked him If we are doing bad deeds, do we still have to enjoin people not to do them. He replied Yes indeed, you must, per chance they will amend their behavior and remind you by forbidding you not to do them (the bad deeds).
612-3 O you who believe! why do you say that which you do not do? It is most hateful to Allah that you should say that which you do not do.
I don?t see a contradiction.
It seems to me that Muhammad was gently telling the enquirer the exact same thing as the above quote from the Quran.
I do not look to al-hadith for guidance. However that does not mean that there is no truth to be found in al-hadith. To me, it only means that it is not infallible and is subject to human error.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace Arnold
You elaborated well in your article about ethical and legal matters that could arise in communities for which the Quran does not have ready answers, and that the answer for those should be found out using common sense, science, logic, and principles laid out in the Quran.
As each community encounter different challenges, I agree with you that an elected Leader is unavoidable.
I wish to give you an interesting (and sad example) of "Leaders" who renege their responsibilities.
In the late 1980's, a Muslim Cleric Mufti in London was approached by a young man whose friend was dying of AIDS.
He asked the Mufti what does his friend need to do?
The Mufti said People come to me with matters that are out of the realm of Islam, and so is your case, therefore I am sorry I cannot help you...
Amazing is it not?Peace Nabster,
This is a great crime, but it is not the Mufti's complete fault. He was taught Islam as a religion and not as a Deen, a complete system of life. So he was never encouraged to adapt to new situations, but stay in the realm of religious thinking. Like Muhammed Asad quote's the conversation with Sheik Al-Maraghi in his book
"'Dost thou sees those "scholars" over there? he asked me. 'They are like those sacred cows in India which, I am told, eat up all the printed paper they can find in the streets...Yes, they gobble up all the printed pages from books that have been written centuries ago, but they do not digest them. They no longer think for themselves; they read and repeat, read and repeat- and the students who listen to them learn only to read and repeat, generation after generation.'"
The Deen will come again, only it will take time, a long time. The evolution of the body is finished, but that of the conciousness has just started....
I hope in time to have worked my 'Obey the Messenger' Article to its fullest, this was only a rough sketch and summary of several other books. If people have anymore additions or feedback, please give so.
If you want to read my article on M.Asad's work, see my article 'Muhammed Asad on Islam'
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,551,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=da1f47bbf76472a6fe52fb400e046222
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Peace Arnold
Oh some of them know how to adapt to new situations alright when it suits them, and is highly destructive, such as fatwas on suicide bombings on civilians, use of chemical agents such as Ricin in London, poisoning water supplies in western cities, and probably use of nuclear weapons if they had their hands on some, etc...