angels and jinn
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I was listening to the quran the other day, and something stuck out to me which made me think.... in the story of creation the quran says
234
And We said to the angels ?Yield to Adam,? so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.711
And We created you, then We shaped you, then We said to the angels ?Yield to Adam;? so they yielded except for Satan, he was not of those who yielded.1761
And We said to the angels ?Yield to Adam.? So they yielded except for Satan, he said ?Shall I yield to one you have created from mud!?1850
And We said to the angels ?Yield to Adam.? So they all yielded except for Satan, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the wicked is the substitute!20116
And We said to the angels ?Yield to Adam.? They all yielded except for Satan, he refusedFrom all these verses - God addresses the angels and includes satan who refused....
so what are angels? can we include satan as an angel?
maybe jinns are angels .... like how a monkey is an animal? and in 1850 it is specified what "species" satan was?
Does that make sense?
Any thoughts? -
Salaam,
I recommend to read my two articles on the matter
Angels
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,552,0,0,1,0Jinn and Shaitan
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,417,0,0,1,0 -
Salam Arnold,
Fabulous articles! Very well written and thought provoking. When one starts studying science (and in particular Quantum physics) together with classical arabic, the result is a higher understanding of the Quran and its meanings.
Speaking of Quantum physics, what do you think of David Deutsch and his multiple universe theory(also called the many-worlds theory)? Of course, the concept of a multiple universe has been around almost as long as the Copenhagen theory, But David Deutsch seems to have evolved it a little. He is also a quantum computer developer and has been in the press lately for this.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.Salam,
Arnab -
Peace bro Arnold,
I love this interpretation of angels (I haven?t read the jinn article yet) ? thanks for sharing ? I had never considered it in that way before.
Just a few questions though if you don?t mind
You said, the laws of the universe (malaika) are meant to serve us?. could you please elaborate on this for me? Seeing as they are the laws of the universe- surely it is us who are subservient to them?
Also
230 And your Lord said to the angels ?I am placing a successor on Earth.? They said ?Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?? He said ?I know what you do not know.?The ?laws of the universe? would question God?
Then
231 And He taught Adam the description of all things, then He displayed them to the angels and said ?Inform Me the descriptions of these things if you are truthful.?
232 They said ?Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except that which You have taught us, You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise.?
233 He said ?O Adam, inform them of the description of these,? so when he informed them of their descriptions, He said ?Did I not tell you that I know the unseen of heavens and Earth, and that I know what you reveal and what you were hiding??
234 And We said to the angels ?Yield to Adam,? so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.In your article you translated ?if you are truthful? ? ? as ?if you are truly better qualified to have supremacy in the planet earth??.. how did you get to this translation/interpretation?
Also I did not understand your point when you quote verse 3124 and say this Dr. Shabbir?s understanding ? what understanding was that?
And then you explain that it is preparing for battle? Do you mean that the lord helped them have 3000 men with power and authority ready for battle? (maybe im just being dense when I read that paragraph but I cant make sense of it! Too many its, thems, and these)And you say malaika can ALSO be ?men with authority??.
So the verses where the malaika speak/do things are ?men with authority/power?? This makes sense? but then verse 69 says IF we were to send an angel it would be a man which would add to the peoples confusion ? is this verse implying that people since the prophets day also had a wrong interpretation of what an angel is?This verse about angels wings = the laws of the universe having more than one function ? this makes a lot of sense? however I am not very knowledgeable scientifically?. What sorts of laws have more than one function? (just out of curiousity ? I hope to discuss this with my brother who is very scientific you see ? so it would be good to know)
Also as far as I know ajniha is the plural of janah
What translation tool did you use to also get wing of an army (that would be janahu askar), shelter (?) and protection (?) from this word?
However, I do agree that it does not necessarily mean wings of a bird ? but most likely means here different aspects/functions, which fits with this interpretation of angels.Angels Names
Jibril ? ruh al-qudus
You give the definition of ruh ? revelation
And wahi ? inspiration
But what does the word rihun have to do with any of it?And 298 ? does this imply that Gabriel and Michael may not necessarily be ?angels? because it reads ?
?Whoever was an enemy to God and His angels, and His messengers, and Gabriel, and Michael, then so God is the enemy to the disbelievers.?
Why are they not included in the "His angels" clause? -
Salaam Ay
Just a few questions though if you dont mind
Never do.
You said, the laws of the universe (malaika) are meant to serve us. could you please elaborate on this for me? Seeing as they are the laws of the universe- surely it is us who are subservient to them?
They submit to us, we not to them, the verses explain it clearly. The Laws of the Universe are created for us, and so we must observe them and make use of them. They themselves do not have any benefit from us or anything else.
Also
230 And your Lord said to the angels I am placing a successor on Earth. They said Would You place in it he who would corrupt in it, and spill blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You? He said I know what you do not know.The laws of the universe would question God?
Keep 37 in mind, this is most likely allegorical. The Universal Forces follow the Will of God, and we as humans can deviade from that Will, this of course can only result in bloodshed and destruction based on a fallible human will. Imagine the whole Universe follow fixed Laws, then suddenly in that complete order, a being is placed there that can follow its own will and deviate from the order of the Universe, what would you expect?
In your article you translated if you are truthful as if you are truly better qualified to have supremacy in the planet earth.. how did you get to this translation/interpretation?
I use QXP, which is a mix between Direct translation and Tasreef, crossreference. The above understanding is directly taken from verse 232, where the Forces are limited, while Mankind is not. The Quran refers to Tasreef-AlAyat, the repitition of verses and subjects to explain itself. Direct translation is important, but it must be together with correlating with other verses on the same subject. Malikah are of course Truthful, so this cannot be the correct understanding, the story is about explaining to us the difference between humans and the Universal Forces and all other creatures. We have given abilities that we can enhance our knowledge, while the Forces only have been given their exact tasks. Thus 'truthful' refers here to their ability.
See www.ourbeacon.com for QXP and other books by our organisation.Also I did not understand your point when you quote verse 3124 and say this Dr. Shabbirs understanding what understanding was that?
And then you explain that it is preparing for battle? Do you mean that the lord helped them have 3000 men with power and authority ready for battle? (maybe im just being dense when I read that paragraph but I cant make sense of it! Too many its, thems, and these)Dr.Shabbir believes the 3000 malikah refers to mental forces of the soldiers, I believe it refers to 3000 soldiers that were better prepared as ordered in the Quran, and were thus Malikah, ones in control and authority.
And you say malaika can ALSO be men with authority.
So the verses where the malaika speak/do things are men with authority/power? This makes sense but then verse 69 says IF we were to send an angel it would be a man which would add to the peoples confusion is this verse implying that people since the prophets day also had a wrong interpretation of what an angel is?Yes, they had. They had taken over the mythological version. The ancient personified everything. Love was Cupid, War was the god Mars, Lightening was this and that, should I go on? The Forces of Nature are not beings or have conciousness, they perform their tasks according to God's Will, nothing more. People believed them to be individual beings that had emotions and so on. This is why you always see a supreme god and lesser gods in religions around the world, the lesser gods are what Christians call angels.
This is what the verse is directly saying, people demanded to see angels, but their version of a Malikah is false, it is pure fantasy. People understood the Forces based on ancient mythology and their limited understanding of Nature, to them, Nature seemed randomn in many things.
This verse about angels wings = the laws of the universe having more than one function this makes a lot of sense however I am not very knowledgeable scientifically. What sorts of laws have more than one function? (just out of curiousity I hope to discuss this with my brother who is very scientific you see so it would be good to know)
Gravity holds us to the ground, keeps the airlayer around the Earth, and protects the Earth from Sun-radiation, for example.
Also as far as I know ajniha is the plural of janah
What translation tool did you use to also get wing of an army (that would be janahu askar), shelter (?) and protection (?) from this word?
However, I do agree that it does not necessarily mean wings of a bird but most likely means here different aspects/functions, which fits with this interpretation of angels.See any good Classic Arabic Dictionary, I used Omar's Dictionary of the Holy Quran for this one. A wing of a bird is used to protect its youngsters, seen Animal Planet where the young birds run the mom and she takes them all under her wings?
But what does the word rihun have to do with any of it?
To understand a word, it is important to study the root and the other words that come out of it to see its main meaning.
And 298 does this imply that Gabriel and Michael may not necessarily be angels because it reads
Whoever was an enemy to God and His angels, and His messengers, and Gabriel, and Michael, then so God is the enemy to the disbelievers.
Why are they not included in the "His angels" clause?I'm still researching Mikail's correct meaning, as I believe the common meaning was taken from the Jews. Jibril means 'A force that mends the poor human with Power and Might so it will be well off and a brave creature'. And thus refers to that it brings the Revelation that restores the original path of Mankind so it will be on the right track again and has courage to follow that path again.
It is seperated from the Malikah, as these here refer to the Universal Forces of the Creation, and Jibril and Mikail to the Forces of Revelation. I believe they are seperated, as the Malikah follow God's Will that He has set out at the moment of Creation. This Will will not be changed, it is fixed and has a fixed goal, Yauwme-Deen. But the Forces of Revelation must express the connection between God and the Prophets, and thus must interact with Mankind's free will. So you have Fixed Forces and Forces that interact with human free will. SO I would understand the verse a bit liek this
Whoever was an enemy to God and His Universal Forces, and His messengers, and Gabriel, and Michael, then so God is the enemy to those that deny Reality.
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The mythological version of angels already created a contradiction as you need vocal cords to create sound. I believe they work like radio-waves, but only the brains of the chosen ones, the Prophets, pick them up. The Malikah of Revelation are Forces that use the Quantum Field to express the information unto the Prophets minds.
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That is an interresting verse that I'm still researching. Humans have the Ruh too, so it could be an inspired man.