Early islamic inscription provides/confirms (sunni caliph) umar's year of death
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First Islamic Inscription May Solve Qur'an Question
Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News
Nov. 18, 2008 -- An Arabic traveler who engraved his name on a block of red sandstone over 1,300 years ago may help solve a question about the Qur'an that has vexed historians for hundreds of years Why was the text seemingly written without diacritical marks?
Diacritical marks, which include accent marks, tildes, umlauts and other notations, help to distinguish one letter from another and aid in pronunciation. When added or removed, they can completely change the meaning of a word or sentence.
Analysis of the recently found sandstone inscription, which predates the earliest known copies of the Qur'an, determined that it reads "In the name of Allah/ I, Zuhayr, wrote (this) at the time 'Umar died/year four/And twenty."
According to researcher Ali ibn Ibrahim Ghabban, who, with his wife, discovered the 644 A.D. inscription northwest of Saudi Arabia, "It is an immensely important find, since it is our earliest dated Arabic inscription."
Ghabban, a member of the Supreme Commission for Tourism, Riyadh, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, added that it also "shows evidence of a fully-fledged system of diacritical marks."
A paper describing the find appears in the latest issue of the journal Arabian Archaeology and Epigraphy.
Robert Hoyland, a professor of Arabic and Middle East Studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, explained the significance of Ghabban's determination to Discovery News.
"Whether the Qur'an was originally written in a script that contained diacritical marks is very important because Western Qur'an scholars generally say that it wasn't and therefore feel free to make some amendments to the Qur'anic text by changing the diacritical marks to give it a different meaning, which is, of course, very unpopular with modern Muslim scholars and Muslims in general, who mostly feel that the Qur'anic text they use is the original text revealed to Muhammad by God," he said.
Although the earliest Islamic inscription, which is also the world's second oldest evidence for written Arabic, does not include punctuation or vowel marks, it does contain markings to distinguish consonants that are identical in shape. This proves such a marking system was already in place before the earliest known copies of the Qur'an, which date to sometime between 652 and 680 A.D., Hoyland indicated.
Ghabban now believes Muhammad's close associates and early followers "stripped Qur'ans of diacritical marks" in order to permit "Muslims to read the Qur'an as it was revealed to Muhammad in the various dialects of the Arabs, and allowing the skeleton of the word to bear all the meanings which appear in it."
Hoyland added that, "this would mean that Western scholars would have less excuse to change the text as we have it now."
Without diacritical marks, for example, a sentence such as, "I took with my whole hands," can also be interpreted as, "I took with my fingertips."
The first known Islamic inscription, whose carver might have made his own mark while walking down a Syrian pilgrimage road, may solve yet another Arabic history mystery When did noted Islamic leader Umar ibn al-Khattab die?
According to tradition and other historical accounts, a Persian soldier assassin stabbed Umar in public as the caliph was leading prayers in a mosque. Zuhayr, who may have witnessed the violent crime, recorded that Umar died in "four and twenty," which means 644 A.D.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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According to tradition and other historical accounts, a Persian soldier assassin stabbed Umar in public as the caliph was leading prayers in a mosque. Zuhayr, who may have witnessed the violent crime, recorded that Umar died in "four and twenty," which means 644 A.D.
This is useful information more so interested in how they wrote, used words/meanings etc., especially numbers seems at times written backwards; small number first then larger one as in quran.
2234? 4 months and 10 (14 months)
1825 300 years and add 9 (not sure about this one)
I take it then
50 years and 1000 = 1050 years
50 years and 900 = 950 years2914 And We had sent Noah to his nation, so he stayed in them 1000 years illa 50
Since illa is used above renders it in reverse
?so he stayed in them 1000 years no more than 50 (i.e. millennium less/illa 50)
Similar to,
7431 And We did not make the fire's owners only/no more than angels (illa mala-ikata)To give another example it is currently 530 pm and to say that I stayed 5 minutes
530 illa 5
Hope that makes sense.
Peace
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Salaam
Very interesting observation.
It could help solve No 19 issue too
I don't know how to transfer pictures see this link for origional inscriptionhttp//my.algeria.com/forums/religion-religion/24279-first-islamic-inscription-may-solve-quran-question.html
Also
http//dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/11/18/islamic-inscription.html
peace -
Peace
I do not understand what this adds. Who is to say that people wrote differently in formal writings and informal writings. Of course we know that today's Arabic does not contain such marks. We also know that the earlier versions of the Quran do not contain such marks, but that these were introduced later as Muslims moved away from Islam towards Sunnism/Shiaism aided by their newly found holy books of Bukari et al.
So not only is there no direct proof of what you say, but there would have had to be two different movements (marks --> no marks --> marks).
Although, perhaps your main point was to do with Umar rather than the marks.
However, one point I raised a long time ago was whether there were words which had different meanings without the marks and with them. Can anyone give any examples?
Roshan
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This is useful information more so interested in how they wrote, used words/meanings etc., especially numbers seems at times written backwards; small number first then larger one as in quran.
2234? 4 months and 10 (14 months)
1825 300 years and add 9 (not sure about this one)
I take it then
50 years and 1000 = 1050 years
50 years and 900 = 950 years2914 And We had sent Noah to his nation, so he stayed in them 1000 years illa 50
Since illa is used above renders it in reverse
?so he stayed in them 1000 years no more than 50 (i.e. millennium less/illa 50)
Similar to,
7431 And We did not make the fire's owners only/no more than angels (illa mala-ikata)To give another example it is currently 530 pm and to say that I stayed 5 minutes
530 illa 5
Hope that makes sense.
Peace
This is still the Arabic as written and said today! The inscription embedded in farida's post says "sanat arba3 wa 3ishreen" which is "the year 24" (not 44 as reported in the main post), which -again- is literally "four and twenty"...the way arabs still say the numbers!!
We still say it's one o'clock "illa" 3ashra it's ten to one.
My question how did they know that this dates to 1300 years ago? Has it undergone any accepted archeological examination? -
samia-This is still the Arabic as written and said today! The inscription embedded in farida's post says "sanat arba3 wa 3ishreen" which is "the year 24" (not 44 as reported in the main post), which -again- is literally "four and twenty"...the way arabs still say the numbers!!
It doesn't say "44" in the main post, it says "four and twenty," which is in terms of "after hijra". In terms of "after christ" it is 644.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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Pseudo-1825 300 years and add 9 (not sure about this one)
Yes, this does not appear to be a standard usage.
Quraan, 1825 can represent either
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the conjectural nature of proposed figures.
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the traditional view that 300 is the length of stay in terms of solar years, & increasing it by 9 gives the number of lunar years.
Other explanations welcome.
Given the quraanic account & the accuracy of the claim (300 solar years ~ 309 lunar years), I, as of now, go with the traditional interpretation.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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This inscription is important for several reasons
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Aspersions have been cast on the veracity of the quraanic text & it has been played with under the pretext of lack of alphabet-identification (bbkt-tykh being an example). This inscription, which predates earliest hijazi manuscripts of quraan, is more proof against the acceptability of such manipulation.
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It reinforces the fact that arabic had evolved pretty well by the time of the prophet.
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Putting question marks over the existence of historical personalities of muhammad's time has been a favorite exercise with a section of skeptics. The attestation in favor of umar is significant.
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In the name of countering bias some skeptics have favored non-arab material over arab material as the main source of arab history, irrespective of it's authenticity. The remarkable accuracy of this inscription lends further credibility to arab records.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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Here is the standard time line; seldom a need to lie about dates...
622 CE Hijira - Muhammad and followers flee to Medina.
Islamic calendar (AH, Anno Hegirae) begins.
624 CE Muslims successfully attack Meccan caravans at Badr.
625 Muslims are defeated by Meccans at Uhud.
630 Muslims capture Mecca. Ka'ba is cleansed, pilgrimage rites are Islamicized, tribes of Arabia vow allegiance to Muhammad
632 Death of Muhammad. Abu Bakr chosen as caliph.
632-33 Wars of ridda (apostasy) restore allegiance to Islam
633 Muslim conquests (Futuhat) begin.
633-42 Muslim armies take the Fertile Crescent (Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Mesopotamia), North African coast, parts of Persian and Byzantine Empires
c. 650 Caliph Uthman has the Qur'an written down.
656 Uthman is murdered; Ali becomes fourth caliph.632 + 24 = 656
Perhaps that is what the person meant by 4 and 20.
Peace
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There is no mention of umar (or of abu bakr's death) in that standard timelime. What are the standard dates for their deaths?
622 Heraclius launches counteroffensive vs. Persia
MUHAMMAD and ABU BAKR flee Mecca for Medina ("Hegira"
622-26 Campaigns of Heraclius
Avar-Persian Siege of Constantinople
627 Battle of Nineveh Destruction of Persian army
628 Fall of Ctesiphon; Overthrow of Chosroes II
Heraclius imposes peace on Persia
630 Heraclius and True Cross received in Jerusalem
Muhammad received in Mecca Unification of Arabia
632 Publication of Monenergian Doctrine
Death of Muhammad. Abu Bakr elected Caliph (632-34)
634 UMAR I elected Caliph (634-644)
636 Battle of Yarmuk Arab Conquest of Syria
637 Battle of Qadisiya Collapse of Sassanid Persian Empire
637-42 Arab Conquest of Iraq, Armenia, and Iran
638 Fall of Jerusalem to the Arabs
Publication of ECTHESIS Proclamation of Monothelete Doctrine
641 Death of Heraclius and Succession Difficulties
Surrender of Alexandria and Egypt to Arabs
Accession of CONSTANS II (641-66
642 Arab Conquest of Cyrenaica and Tripolitania
644 Assassination of Umar I. UTHMAN elected Caliph (644-656). MUAWIYA commences construction of Arab fleet
645-46 Byzantine reoccupation of Alexandria
648 Publication of TYPUS
649 Pope Martin I condemns Monothelete doctrine
Muawiya conquers Cyprus Arabic naval offensive against Byzantium
653 Arrest and Deposition of Pope Martin I
654 Arabic Sack of Rhodes
655 Battle of Attaleia ("Battle of the Masts" Defeat of Imperial Navy and Flight of Constans II
656 Mutiny at Fustat (Cairo) and Murder of Caliph Uthman
Election of ALI as Caliph (656-661)
Outbreak of Islamic Civil War Muawiya and Constans II sign a truce
Battle of the Camel Ali crushes Bedouin army of Kufa and arrests Aisha
657 Kharijites ("those who go out" secede from Shi'ite Cause
661 Murder of Ali by Kharijitesumar is believed to have died on the last day of 23 ah & buried on the first day of 24 ah.
632 + 24 = 656
Perhaps that is what the person meant by 4 and 20.
Dates are recorded in terms of after hijra & not after muhammad.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
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thegod - umar is believed to have died on the last day of 23 ah & buried on the first day of 24 ah.
umar is believed to have died on the last night of 23 ah.
Then, according to arabic system, he died in 24 ah. So the date is spot-on.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen.