Moses,Ishmael and Abrahams Al-Bait .

unknownuser

Pitty we arn't allowed to change posts;

004.164
YUSUFALI Of some messengers We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-

002.253
YUSUFALI Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others To one of them Allah spoke??

Isma-il = Who heard Allah = Moses.

God Bless.

el-Aziz

Hi Br's,

One who loves righteousness = Abraham, is made from Barra (example 2177) and Hamma.

Ishmael is a combination of sami a Allah = Whom Allah heard or who heard Allah.

Abraham saved Moses from slaughter.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14136.0

What is Bait = it?s a group of people related, somehow to one another.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13255.msg110792#msg110792

So what was it that Abraham (225 and Moses (2836) did that is in common to them both? As it says both built the house!

They both argued/discussed/debated the issues of people, the Israelites and people in general to/with Pharaoh.

Moses was Ishmael which is a quality of an individual.

Let?s see which other people set up the bait to vie with one another like Abraham and Moses.

Gandhi, Qaid-e-azam, Leningrad shipyard workers, Nelson Mandela e.t.c

It?s a strange thing when people keep taking abuse like did the Israelites for 40 years after Moses left them.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13498.msg113938#msg113938

Even Hitler got the better of them and they got slaughtered like cattle.

People have to stand up and be counted but peaceably unless it?s to protect oneself.

So Assemblies/peaceful confrontation to vie with one another to remove the unrighteous matters from communities is the AL-BAIT. Started up by Abraham and Moses.

If we take Allah = Life Force, then everything falls in place ? I think.

Thanks.

Abraham or arabic ibrah?m is equivalent of hebrew av-raham meaning father of the many.
Ishmael is in fact yisha'-El meaning G-d is listening

I don't really get it, why waste time on trying to brake down non-arabic names to arabic?

unknownuser

Salaams Br,

sorry but to me they are Arabic names - and i wouldn't break it down thinking it was anything but.

I don't think i would use foreign words in a book i was writing and the writer of the quran is far far wiser then someone like me or you - i think.

Thanks though.

God Bless.

AaRoN

bro simple

if you are finding meanings and the meanings fit then the objections others may have don't really matter, do they? i like what i've seen you doing the past couple years, it actually provides cerebral fodder P

unknownuser

bro simple

if you are finding meanings and the meanings fit then the objections others may have don't really matter, do they? i like what i've seen you doing the past couple years, it actually provides cerebral fodder P

Hi AaRon,

i think 100% in this case the meanings do fit actualy.

but here are some similer words anybody interested could compare.

85
Line2288 AsmiAA bihim waabsir yawma ya/toonanalakini alththalimoona alyawmafee dalalin mubeenin

How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest!

24
Line539 Mina allatheena hadoo yuharrifoonaalkalima AAan mawadiAAihi wayaqooloona samiAAnawaAAasayna waismaAA ghayra musmaAAin waraAAinalayyan bi-alsinatihim wataAAnan fee alddeeni walawannahum qaloo samiAAna waataAAna waismaAAwaonthurna lakana khayranlahum waaqwama walakin laAAanahumu Allahubikufrihim fala yu/minoona illa qaleelan

Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say "We hear and we disobey"; and "Hear what is not Heard"; and "Ra'ina"; with a twist of their tongues and a slander to Faith. If only they had said "What hear and we obey"; and "Do hear"; and "Do look at us"; it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe.

39
Line777 Thalika adna an ya/too bialshshahadatiAAala wajhiha aw yakhafoo an turadda aymanunbaAAda aymanihim waittaqoo Allaha waismaAAoowaAllahu la yahdee alqawma alfasiqeena

That is most suitable that they may give the evidence in its true nature and shape, or else they would fear that other oaths would be taken after their oaths. But fear Allah, and listen (to His counsel) for Allah guideth not a rebellious people

4
Line100 Wa-ith akhathna meethaqakumwarafaAAna fawqakumu alttoora khuthooma ataynakum biquwwatin waismaAAoo qaloosamiAAna waAAasayna waoshriboo feequloobihimu alAAijla bikufrihim qul bi/sama ya/murukumbihi eemanukum in kuntum mu/mineena

And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai) (Saying) "Hold firmly to what We have given you, and hearken (to the Law)" They said" We hear, and we disobey" And they had to drink into their hearts (of the taint) of the calf because of their Faithlessness. Say "Vile indeed are the behests of your Faith if ye have any faith!"

55
Line1183 Walaw AAalima Allahu feehim khayranlaasmaAAahum walaw asmaAAahum latawallaw wahum muAAridoona

If Allah had found in them any good. He would indeed have made them listen (As it is), if He had made them listen, they would but have turned back and declined (Faith).

83
Line2166 Quli Allahu aAAlamu bimalabithoo lahu ghaybu alssamawati waal-ardiabsir bihi waasmiAA ma lahum min doonihi minwaliyyin wala yushriku fee hukmihi ahadan

Say "Allah knows best how long they stayed with Him is (the knowledge of) the secrets of the heavens and the earth how clearly He sees, how finely He hears (everything)! They have no protector other than Him; nor does He share His Command with any person whatsoever.

90
Line2394 Qala la takhafainnanee maAAakuma asmaAAu waara

He said "Fear not for I am with you I hear and see (everything).

And from here alone the concucted religion in saudia is visible miles of as there isn't another Ishmael but Moses.

Lets see if there is a traditionalist here who can argue with this view though.

God Bless.

AaRoN

hey bro with all that work are you still translatin yahuwd as jews?

unknownuser

hey bro with all that work are you still translatin yahuwd as jews?

Well AaRon,

the word does appear to come from Hudan - Guidance

its spread throughout the quran.

and keeping in mind the context i think it does refer to those who were guided by Allah - and ain't they the Jews.

And the majority of places may actually refer to the Jews - i think.

How do you translate this?

Salaams Bro.

el-Aziz

Salaams Br,

sorry but to me they are Arabic names - and i wouldn't break it down thinking it was anything but.

I don't think i would use foreign words in a book i was writing and the writer of the quran is far far wiser then someone like me or you - i think.

Thanks though.

God Bless.

So if non-arabic names all of a sudden becomes arabic when put into arabic context, they turn arabic in origin; etymology and meaning? That's really something man!

Here's a question for someone with your expertise and insight in other languages through arabic language.
I did some "research" of my own and found out that the meaning of the city of Hudiksvall (http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudiksvall) where I was born, actually means "your retardation is a question". Agree or not?

AaRoN

the word does appear to come from Hudan - Guidance

oh i agree with that part

its spread throughout the quran.

agreed

and keeping in mind the context i think it does refer to those who were guided by Allah - and ain't they the Jews.

personally i don't see why god would pick out one religion of the myriad of religions in the world. do you think the jews are the only ones who have the attributes associated with the roots of yHwd?

are the jews of today the only ones who received past guidance?

there's no religion called munafiqiyn, no religion called kafariyn, not religion called mustaqiyn... see what i mean? all these words are used to describe something that goes far beyond the confines of a religious label. i thus infer the same with yHwd.

How do you translate this?

well not totally sure... but i think it has something to do with people, whether a community or individuals, that received guidance previously and thus think that they are in with god no matter what, and no longer need to work to stay in god's good books, or feel that they are beyond reproach. certainly the idea of being "chosen people" would fit into this category, but i personally don't limit it to the jews.

AaRoN

Here's a question for someone with your expertise and insight in other languages through arabic language.
I did some "research" of my own and found out that the meaning of the city of Hudiksvall (http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudiksvall) where I was born, actually means "your retardation is a question". Agree or not?

how about "your retardation is a certainty"? how would you say that?

somebody's jealous of us not using the same old "borrowed hebrew names" theory

unknownuser

oh i agree with that part

agreed

personally i don't see why god would pick out one religion of the myriad of religions in the world. do you think the jews are the only ones who have the attributes associated with the roots of yHwd?

are the jews of today the only ones who received past guidance?

there's no religion called munafiqiyn, no religion called kafariyn, not religion called mustaqiyn... see what i mean? all these words are used to describe something that goes far beyond the confines of a religious label. i thus infer the same with yHwd.

well not totally sure... but i think it has something to do with people, whether a community or individuals, that received guidance previously and thus think that they are in with god no matter what, and no longer need to work to stay in god's good books, or feel that they are beyond reproach. certainly the idea of being "chosen people" would fit into this category, but i personally don't limit it to the jews.

You are right you can't and shouldn't limit it to the jews as it can and does apply to all people - i think.

God Bless.

unknownuser

So if non-arabic names all of a sudden becomes arabic when put into arabic context, they turn arabic in origin; etymology and meaning? That's really something man!

Here's a question for someone with your expertise and insight in other languages through arabic language.
I did some "research" of my own and found out that the meaning of the city of Hudiksvall (http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudiksvall) where I was born, actually means "your retardation is a question". Agree or not?

Br. Aziz,

i think you need realisation that there is a big difference between the two examples you are talking about. That the names in the Arabic lingo which may well be from Hebrew or something simile have common meanings is that their origins are the same.

Its like Urdu its origin is Arabic and Persian - and you may find so many Urdu words with 100% same meanings as you will find in the Arabic Language.

But some that are from Persian language may sound like Arabic words but will have slightly different meanings.

Thanks.

el-Aziz

how about "your retardation is a certainty"? how would you say that?

somebody's jealous of us not using the same old "borrowed hebrew names" theory

someone did clearly not get the picture.

i have no idea who this jealous person would be so how about you talk directly to me or that person?

speaking of theories, i don't understand where you got the "everything within arabic context is of arabic origin" theory from. why is it that you guys treat everything to be invented at the very time the Koran was compiled?!
btw, most hebrew names arent even hebrew but even elder.

el-Aziz

Br. Aziz,

i think you need realisation that there is a big difference between the two examples you are talking about. That the names in the Arabic lingo which may well be from Hebrew or something simile have common meanings is that their origins are the same.

Its like Urdu its origin is Arabic and Persian - and you may find so many Urdu words with 100% same meanings as you will find in the Arabic Language.

But some that are from Persian language may sound like Arabic words but will have slightly different meanings.

Thanks.

your example isnt sufficient since urdu is an indo-aryan language and arabic is a semitic one. however, it's not very crucial...

when you find a proper name of non-arabic origin does it seem natural to most people to check out their meaning in that very non-arabic language but you clearly wanna take the arabic detour and i dont see the point S

unknownuser

your example isnt sufficient since urdu is an indo-aryan language and arabic is a semitic one. however, it's not very crucial...

when you find a proper name of non-arabic origin does it seem natural to most people to check out their meaning in that very non-arabic language but you clearly wanna take the arabic detour and i dont see the point S

Salaams Aziz,

av-raham and Ibrahim saying them out loud ? sorry they sound different may be to embody the new meaning.

yisha'-El and Ishmael again sound totally different and if you don't agree ask anybody on any street corner.

All this is because their origins are the same but they are from two different languages.

Ishmael = i ? Sama - Allah

To me its who heard Allah.

God Bless.