Mohsannat? A new understanding(very imp)
-
Peace Warner, Siki, all,
Translation of "mohsanaat" as "chaste" creates a huge contradiction in 425.
In 425, "mohsanaat" is used IN CONTRAST with "MMA from believing fatayat". If "mohsanaat" is translated as "chaste" here, then we are being told that if we cannot marry the chaste women then marry MMA from believing fatayat, thus making MMA from believing fatayat UNCHASTE and also making believing fatayat UNCHASTE ! o
-
Salaam bro siki,
There is no such thing as "regular" chaste versus "irregular" chaste P
"Salted chips" would be a better analogy, then "salt and vinegar flavored" would be included in the "salted", not a different category ! P
-
Salaam bro siki,
well that was just an off the cuff shot , you may improve upon/perfect it but i hope , you got what i meant to convey
It still doesn't solve the contradiction created by translating "mohsanaat" as "chaste" in 425. Then if one cannot marry a chaste woman then he can marry the "MMA from believing fatayat"; this would make "MMA from believing fatayat" not included in the category of "chaste", thus making them UNCHASTE o
-
The Mohsinnats
is the title given by All mighty to all those women who do not belong to prohibited (hurmat) 14 in 4-22 ,4-23 and are desirous of protecting themselves from sexual acts other than sanctioned/authorised/legalised/prescribed by God, and we have a title for them,
""""chaste women"""" and you can find these women among believing, non believing, people of the book etc.Any or all of these could be found in a bunch gathered as "Ma Malakat Emnakum" as well .
MY mother /daughter/sister could be chaste women but are not" Mohsinnas" for me.
Proven fahishas or Zaniaas are deprived of this title, and hence from God's recommendation for marriage.
come on brother! the kind of intellect you posses, it should have been you, elektro drilling me to comprehend this understanding, elektro not the other way around.
siki
-
Salaam bro siki,
It still doesn't solve the contradiction created by translating "mohsanaat" as "chaste" in 425. Then if one cannot marry a chaste woman then he can marry the "MMA from believing fatayat"; this would make "MMA from believing fatayat" not included in the category of "chaste", thus making them UNCHASTE o
They are already included in that as per 4-24 ,,," AND the chaste among the women excluding the ones belonging to MME---
please go through my last 15 posts , i have discussed every word/ verse in detail.
siki
-
Salaam bro siki,
Try the correct approach of focusing on "ayat/signs" rather than the man-made "verses" and God willing it will help you in obtaining the correct understanding of any subject in al-qur'aan.
Please see the following link to understand what I mean by the above
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9567.0
-
Re Mohsanat-A pearl (Seep ka mo tee)
Assalamo AlaikumIn societies where ?slavery? existed, women could be classified into following categories
a-Women belonging to independent families;
b-Slave women in possession of rich families, who were being treated as home servants by Muslims (Islam, established in the 7th century, recognized the institution of slavery from the beginning. The Prophet Muhammad {s.a.s} urged his followers to use slaves kindly, however, and on the whole slaves owned by Muslims were comparatively well treated. Most were employed as domestic servants. ?Slavery? Encyclopedia Encarta)
c. Prisoners of war (married, un-married, divorcee, Belonging to People of Book, Mushrikat, women claiming to be Muslim but in the Nikah of a Non believer).
d. Immigrant women claiming to have become Muslim.Quran e Majeed after naming those women, prohibited for Nikah, because of the sanctity of relationship, also adds in the list of Haram women
Wal muhsana_tu minan nisa_'i illa_ ma_ malakat aima_nukum, {beginning of 424}
?And Al Mohsanat from amongst women are also hereby declared haram, except those Mohsanat who are in your possession/control?
Here law is being prescribed. Had exception not recorded here, a contradiction and ambiguity would have emerged, for the reason that with certain married women (already bound by an agreement of Nikah with someone else), it is declared later on, that there is no ?junaha?, nothing bad/wrong, in marrying them after fulfilling certain conditions.
This exception reflects the beauty and comprehensiveness of Book, which claims to be Laa Raib. A Law prescribed for all times has to be specific, explicit and unambiguous.
Ya_ ay yuhal lazina a_manu_ iza_ ja_ akumul mumina_tu muha_jira_tin famtahinu hun
O ye who say to have become believers! When there come to your society-believing women as refugees, examine their claim of belief
al la_hu alamu bi ima_nihin fa in alimtumu_hun na mumina_tin fala_ tarjiu_hun na ilal
kuf fa_r
Allah knows best as to their Faith if you have ascertained that they are Believers then send them not back to the Unbelievers.
la_ hun na hil lul lahum wa lahum yahil lu_na lahun
(for the reason that) They are not lawful wives for the Unbelievers, nor are the Unbelievers lawful husbands for them.
wa a_tu_ hum ma_ anfa_qu
But pay their Unbeliever husbands what they spent for marrying them.
wa la_ juna_ha alaikum an tankihu_hun na iza_ a_ taitumu_hun na uju_rahun
And there will be no blame/nothing wrong, on you people if ye enter into Nikah with them (i.e) when you pay mutually agreed gift of marriage (Nikah) to them. {Refer 6010}(IT SHOULD BE REMEMBERED THAT NO WOMAN IS EVER HILAL WITHOUT ENGAGING HER INTO THE FORT OF NIKAH, To make her amongst Mohasenat, a pearl, one which is always taken care of and respected. Allah, Aaqai Namdar s.a.s and Quran e Majeed has given great honour, dignity, respect and sanctity to women, whoever they may be, and whatever they believe, notwithstanding. Muslims always take woman with great honor because for them the example of woman is that of the Wife of Pharaoh and Syeda Mariam Siddiqa. Our respects and salaam to both of them. Syeda Mariam Siddiqa was chosen representative of woman She was chosen to equal the man and woman from the point of view of creation. Only One woman was created out of a Man (Nafse Wahida) and one woman, all alone Nafse Wahida was made to create one man, Son of Syeda Mariam Siddiqa. None (Man and woman) can now claim that the other?s presence/existence is because of him or her. Man and woman is a Zoaj, one is incomplete without the other. This suggests the EQUALITY. If man is the bone, woman is the flesh. Bone is created first, then flesh. And when husbands depart, they leave behind ?Yazaroona? wives, Wazr is flesh without bone. Flesh needs to be attached with the bone to give it strength, and in turn flesh gives beauty to the bone and covers its ugly look. Woman is the beauty from within and without. She is Paiker, the symbol of Iffat, Wafa, and Haya.
-
Peace,
I'll made this short as I see many have commented and i have not read everyone's comment.
Muhsanaat is from husn (a fort)
Muhsanaat means Fortified or deeply and strongly settled
So looking at Muhsanaat means looking at the concept of woman who are fortified or strongly settled. That can mean older women, free-women(as opposed to servantude), and pious i.e. chaste woman.
It is a general concept that can refer to different kinds of woman but it's root is in this woman having deep and strong roots religiously, in society, in age etc.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Re Mohsanat-A pearl (Seep ka mo tee)
Assalamo AlaikumQuran e Majeed after naming those women, prohibited for Nikah, because of the sanctity of relationship, also adds in the list of Haram women
Wal muhsana_tu minan nisa_'i illa_ ma_ malakat aima_nukum, {beginning of 424}
?And Al Mohsanat from amongst women are also hereby declared haram, except those Mohsanat who are in your possession/control?
Here law is being prescribed. Had exception not recorded here, a contradiction and ambiguity would have emerged, for the reason that with certain married women (already bound by an agreement of Nikah with someone else),Brother Mazhar
peace be upon you
can you clarify what you are trying to explain here.. Moreover i will suggest that you read through the thread , Ma Malakat emnakum ,a refutation,,,,in the same section.
siki
-
Peace,
I'll made this short as I see many have commented and i have not read everyone's comment.
Muhsanaat is from husn (a fort)
Muhsanaat means Fortified or deeply and strongly settled
So looking at Muhsanaat means looking at the concept of woman who are fortified or strongly settled. That can mean older women, free-women(as opposed to servantude), and pious i.e. chaste woman.
It is a general concept that can refer to different kinds of woman but it's root is in this woman having deep and strong roots religiously, in society, in age etc.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam Anwar
You write "mu7sanaat" and you give an explanation of "mu7as-sanaat". They are of the same root, but not exactly the same meaning. "mu7san" immune
-
Peace,
I'll made this short as I see many have commented and i have not read everyone's comment.
Muhsanaat is from husn (a fort)
Muhsanaat means Fortified or deeply and strongly settled
So looking at Muhsanaat means looking at the concept of woman who are fortified or strongly settled. That can mean older women, free-women(as opposed to servantude), and pious i.e. chaste woman.
It is a general concept that can refer to different kinds of woman but it's root is in this woman having deep and strong roots religiously, in society, in age etc.
Godbless,
Anwarpeace anwar
it is nice to have you on this thread brother, i strongly recommend that you go through my replies starting from 77, to 98 on page no 6 of this thread.
God bless you
siki
-
Dear siki
Thanks. I had glanced discussion on MME. I have again gone through it, and also downloaded for detailed study.
The discussion on MME still not explicitly clarify. I wanted to study step by step to come to some conclusion whether or not sex out side Nikah could be considered permissibe as has been advocated for centruies by many, to pave and give way to debauch rich segments of muslim society.Some treat it "contradiction" if at one place Mohsanat is translated as "protected women" and at other "married woman". But that is not the case. The basic meaning of the root would always prevail in whatever manner a word made from that root is used. And Hasn basically gives concept of protection. So long a woman belonging to independent (not slave) family is not married she is amongst Mohsanat since she is protected (in society in the fort "Hasn" of her family). And this particular woman and all other women whether slaves/servants become Mohsanat when enter into Nikah since men are allowed only to look for women as MOHISINEENA, i.e. one who make her amongst Mohsanat. Asad's interpretation/perception of "or" does not solve the problem. We cant' assign our own meanings to words and statements of Quran e Majeed.
Mazhar -
Peace,
Samia, I agree with you in the MSA sense, but muhassan in the MSA sense also means immunized. In Old Arabic (and even in the dialects and standard Arabic to a great degree) muhsan has a synonymous meaning with muhassan. Like awsaa and wassaa. Remember Old Arabic usually has much wider meanings than Standard Arabic meanings. It would seem that Wehr's dictionary disagrees with you. But I don't as I now that these two forms can be used interchangeably. Muhsaan & Muhassan in the sense of immune is fortification of the body. Like hasaawnatun/Ihsaawn.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Can you explain this in more detail so I can understand better? (?m7San? and ?M7aS-San? I thought they are from the same root)
Salaam warner
They are from the same root, but not the same verb form
mu7San <------ verb A7Sana (form IV)
mu7aSSan <----- verb 7aSSana (Fom II)A7Sana is the same verb used in verse 2191. It is not "protected/preserved) as there is another verb used in the qur'aan for this meaning 7afatha "wal 7aafithuuna furuujahum wal 7aafithaat".
Immune from not wanting/can't or unable to have sex. Mary did not want to mary, but she was made to change her mind and go against the traditions of her people, that's why God says "she immuned her private parts from not wanting to have legal sex/ a7Sanat farajaha"
-
Peace,
Samia, I agree with you in the MSA sense,
Godbless,
AnwarThis is not MSA sense. It follows strict rules of derivatives, which are respected by the qur'aan AND the spoken language. a7Sana and 7aSSana have different meanings, and these ar the two verbs from which the two active participles are derived. Why should they have the same meaning? God used the word "Mu7aSSana" in 5914. He definitely knows there is a difference because there is.