Remembering the true nature of our enemy
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And also Majority of the Muslims agrees with brother Yusha. According to my understandig there are more than 90% Muslims who believe so. I dont agree with them though!
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his claim is not incorrect since he believes that the quran tells us to "follow the messenger" which he believes is following the hadith, and it's the hadith that give us the stoning to death punishment.
One can believe all they want, doesn't make it correct or factual. If someone believes and states that a carrot is an onion, it won't turn an incorrect statement into a correct one just because he believes it to be. I don't think this site/forum exists to perpetuate or tolerate incorrect beliefs but for reformation, enlightenment and knowledge. If someone insists on perpetuating incorrect beliefs, even after all evidence to the contrary, then they are not here to learn.
edit to add
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Salam Jankren,
I cannot even tell you, as a human, a woman.....the sheer terror and sickness that rises in my soul and my throat as I viewed those videos....I am beyond words...I can only say...that for the first time, I will pray everyday of my life, that the men and women who participate in these barbaric, disgusting, satanic acts of murder, will suffer more than the majority in hell, I pray that they will be the most sufferable miserable lowly despicable peices of S*** in hell. IT is truly the sickest F****** thing I have ever seen! I truly hate these )()&^&^*&%^%$^%#$%$#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Muhammed Ali in his translation, commentary on verse 242
242 The adulteress and the adulterer,
flog each of them (with) a hundred
stripes,a and let not pity for them
detain you from obedience to All?h,
if you believe in All?h and the Last
Day, and let a party of believers witness
their chastisement.2a. Chastity, as a virtue, is not given the first place in modern civilized society, and
hence adultery is not considered a sufficiently serious offence to subject the guilty party
to any punishment except the payment of damages to the injured husband. The breach of
the greatest trust which can be imposed in a man or a woman, the breach which ruins
families, destroys household peace, and deprives innocent children of their loving mothers,
is not looked upon even as seriously as the breach of trust of a few pounds. Hence
the Islamic law seems to be too severe to a Westerner.The punishment for adultery is here stated to be flogging, not stoning to death, which
was really prescribed by the Jewish law. The cases of stoning to death for adultery by the
Prophets orders relate actually to a Jew and a Jewess in one case (B. 2361), and others
apparently occurred before the revelation of this chapter. That stoning to death was never
contemplated by Isl?m as a punishment for adultery is made clear by 425, where it is
stated expressly that the punishment for adultery in the case of slave-girls, when they are
married, is half the punishment which is inflicted on free married women, and stoning to
death could not be halved. Besides, the Qur?n nowhere speaks of stoning as a punishment
for adultery, and the report of what Umar said is self-contradictory. For a full
discussion, see The Religion of Isl?m, ch. Penal Laws of Islam.A few words may be added as to the method of flogging. It aimed more at disgracing the culprit than at torturing
him. In the time of the Prophet, and even for some time after him, there was no whip,
and flogging was carried out by beating with a stick or with the hand or with shoes. The
culprit was not stripped naked, but he was required to take off thick clothes. -
Peace all,
I just watched the two videos. '(
I thought I'd mention though that the second one (titled - Girl stoned to death by muslim mob on google), jankren wrote A 17 year old Kurdish girl was supposedly stoned to death by people including her own family. Now either the link posted was wrong or something, but this video was taken somehwere in South Africa and it's NOT a "muslim mob". The commentator starts with saying something about a black girl, and notice they're all Africans. And somewhere along the line someone in the mob shouts - viva Mandela.
Truly horrific.Peace
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I really don't like to preach hate, but I cannot take it when these acts are committed under the guise of religion. I don't give a shit if god personally came down and told me to stone someone .... I wouldn't do it. I'd rather burn in hell then participate in that bullshit. When will they come to their senses?!
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One can believe all they want, doesn't make it correct or factual. If someone believes and states that a carrot is an onion, it won't turn an incorrect statement into a correct one just because he believes it to be. I don't think this site/forum exists to perpetuate or tolerate incorrect beliefs but for reformation, enlightenment and knowledge. If someone insists on perpetuating incorrect beliefs, even after all evidence to the contrary, then they are not here to learn.
peace
I understand your point, but the thing is that the "proof" that most people on this forum offer for their beliefs is their interpretation of the Quran's verses.
Some people think that when the quran mentions the "unseen," it's telling us to blindly believe it's stories.
Similarly, Yusha believes that when the Quran mentions "obey the messenger," it is telling us to follow the written records of his sayings, the ahadith. And so whatever the hadith say we must follow.
His beliefs may very well be "incorrect," but according to whose understanding?2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to the study and understanding of the Scripture (Quran). Thus, mocking it or not being able to back-up claims with specifics will all result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.
This isn't a very clear, or necessary rule. People should be able to say whatever the hell they want, and it's up to others to listen to it or not. According to probably hundreds of people on this forum I have mocked the Quran, and the only thing I have had to back it up has been my subjective understanding of the world and the quran. I bet if Ahmad Baghat or Al Quraishi were a mod, I'd have all my posts deleted in that other thread you locked (also unecessary). You get what I'm saying?
I don't agree with what Yusha said, but his opinion is just as valid as a lot of others I read here every day.
peace -
Muhammed Ali in his translation, commentary on verse 242
242 The adulteress and the adulterer,
flog each of them (with) a hundred
stripes,a and let not pity for them
detain you from obedience to All?h,
if you believe in All?h and the Last
Day, and let a party of believers witness
their chastisement.I wonder if the word 'flog' can be put under interpretation. To 'flog' basically means 'to strike,' but according to the definintions of dictionary.com
"1. to beat with a whip, stick, etc., esp. as punishment; whip; scourge."
What you can strike the offender with is open to discusion.
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His beliefs may very well be "incorrect," but according to whose understanding?
According to what the site promotes as the correct understanding with the evidence given. I hope that was clear enough. We've been through this with the "why isn't freeminds the fickleminds site" before.
This isn't a very clear, or necessary rule. People should be able to say whatever the hell they want, and it's up to others to listen to it or not.
People can say whatever the hell they want but if it's a belief that can harm others and if they do so consistently and can't back it up with other than, "Because I believe so and no matter what the quran says", even when evidence is offered to the contrary... it's not good. This forum is a place to learn and debate, not to rant.
According to probably hundreds of people on this forum I have mocked the Quran, and the only thing I have had to back it up has been my subjective understanding of the world and the quran.
If you were to be told, look see for yourself, there is no stoning for adulterers in the quran, the quran already gives the punishments for adultery, the hadith is not a criteria that can abrogate the quran according to the quran itself...would you still keep at it? A logical mind tends to reason through the trail of evidence and realises oops, this is not a claim that's valid regardless of which religion (or the lack of) they claim to follow or their subjective understanding of the world and the quran.
If someone is being illogical, we try to acquaint them with logic, if someone does not know the facts, we try to acquaint them with the facts. If someone still persists in ranting about things with no evidence, that may cause harm to someone else inclusive of their own selves, then this is not the site/forum to advocate/encourage/ignore something like that. I've seen the harm that these unfounded beliefs do everyday and I'm not about to say, it's alright...words can never hurt you, just their opinion. Words have the power to shape/influence minds, those minds control bodies that believe it or not, have actually hurt people. A person can choose to exercise their reasoning over what they hear or think and determine right or wrong but sadly, many don't as well and end up with minds that are capable of harming people. It's not enough to say it's their fault and they should know better, those who were watching should take it seriously. So, if someone was standing on a public corner spouting off the merits of stoning people and how its a divine decree, I would like to see him carted away.
I bet if Ahmad Baghat or Al Quraishi were a mod, I'd have all my posts deleted in that other thread you locked (also unecessary).
They aren't mods and it wasn't unnecessary locking that thread. Most of us do not want to see petty squabbling. Most of us know how things were like not too long ago and many do not want it spiralling down the same path. Freedom comes with some responsibility, so we should use it right.
I don't agree with what Yusha said, but his opinion is just as valid as a lot of others I read here every day.
I do not agree. Opinions that are encourage causing harm to others with no evidence whatsover aren't worth anyone's time especially when they are spouted consistently.
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if someone was standing on a public corner spouting off the merits of stoning people and how its a divine decree, I would like to see him carted away.
True.
If someone is being illogical, we try to acquaint them with logic, if someone does not know the facts, we try to acquaint them with the facts.
Yes, but I don't see the use deleting posts and banning members in that. If it's only for promoting physical harm, I can understand. So, yeah, I guess I agree. -*
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Peace,
we can never abandon what he taught us, no matter how much it offends so called "human rights".
That in itself is an indictment on the kid. I'm sorry, but this is the epitome of wickedness - no matter what train of thought or experience led him there. This attitude represents the darkest tier of the so-called muslim (peaceful) world and should have no place on this forum, in my humble opinion.
To voice an opinion that maintains what one believes to be "what he taught us" as overriding and hierarchical of human rights is non-quranic, un-islamic, in opposition of peace, and frankly, barbaric. Just as well, it goes against the very mission of this website as stated on the homepage...
This website has been created for all people who have a desire to allow God into their lives and follow His path alone...
This website invites all people of various beliefs (Sunni, Shia, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Bahai, Agnostic, Humanist, and even Atheists) to come and examine for themselves the system of Submission/Islam which is based on God Alone.
Many of you may outwardly be content with your current faith or that which you inherited from your parents and community...but to some out there, there will always be a tugging at the back of their mind that 'there is something more', and that 'some things don't always make sense'...
If you are one of those people, then open your eyes, put on your thinking cap, and welcome to an open examination of the system of Submission/Islam which very few know about...
Note the emphasis. If you are not one of those people, then you are not welcome.
Peace,
Tay -
Yes, but I don't see the use deleting posts and banning members in that.If it's only for promoting physical harm, I can understand. So, yeah, I guess I agree.
We don't usually delete posts, infact its rare when that happens.
As far as banning members goes, if they break the rules consistently, they are on their way out. These rules also cover the ranters (definition who claim to have polar opposite beliefs to what the site promotes, yet still consistently post because they are frustrated at those beliefs personally, want to be contrary and cause dissent to the exclusion of any evidence that goes against their views. They put up token resistence to any refutation and/or insist and repeat their views stubbornly, aren't here to discuss or learn but to promote/encourage their own view). Then there are the trolls (definition those posting inflammatory topics for the sake of starting a flame war or just general chaos and dissent, they too put up a token resistance if at all, their most defining characteristic is the lack of participation after posting a juicy topic that gets people riled up. Maybe they sit and rub their hands with glee after, but no one can truly know what the motivations of trolls can be (unless tortured by fire P), thus they are a bit different from the ranters). No one wants these types on their forum, because eventually if it's done consistently, it brings the quality down; causes dissatisfaction from the people there for it's primary purpose and is a general annoyance with no tangible benefits in the long run.
I would like to reiterate what Tay said, please look at the site and it's mission statement. This is not a free for all forum for any and everyone to trample over as they wish. There have been so many posters in the past with different beliefs, who have debated/questioned a bit, learnt something or not and left or stayed yet participated with politeness and respect to the others also participating, and to what the site/forum is all about.
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Islam's enemy is not any races but syethan in the form among men and jinn
And thus did We make for every prophet an enemy, the Shaitans from among men and jinn, some of them suggesting to others varnished falsehood to deceive (them), and had your Lord pleased they would not have done it, therefore leave them and that which they forge.
Todays conflicts between Islam and others not a conflict of idiologies but regional conflict quarelling of lands, oils, economics.
All Prophets were exerting struggles to make Islam as the only ad-deen for men (QS.61/9), so the enemies were idiologies made by father of nations.
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Peace Jankren n all,
I think what is kind of frustrating is that Yusha himself does not seem to be interested to be engaged in this discussion in the first place. I think he is content with what he believes in and will never consider other views.
I agree with what you, and the mods have said here. At first I was defending Yusha in that, he has his beliefs and just because he does, he shouldn't be shunned or attacked. I still stand by that, however, it seems like the 'princezeds' of the past, these type people not here to have intelligent or healthy discussions or debates. They are stuck in their ways and are only interested in preaching, and not once listening. nope
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I think before taking care the external enemy we should fix the enemies within first such as the ones who are promoting stoning to death practice in the name of Islam.
It is ****ing idotic that they often punish the females only for what they call 'wicked' behavior.
Peace Jankren, Honor
Multiply this x1.5million in Iraq and you get what so called civilised people have done to Arabs. As backward as some of those people in the video are, don't ever forget that western people are not dumb, know what they are doing and their leaders, backed by the people, have brought misery on hundreds of millions, if not billions of people.
As for Yusha, the problem in those countries are that you have on one side village idiot religious leaders with their backward message that leads nowhere versus people who want to ape western society with all of it's problems. The latter are viewed with suspicion and hostility due to western actions througout the world.
Roshan
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Peace all,
This happens when you follow those corrupt laws in the OT Bible(here stoning for adultery) which were supposedly also carried out by Moses and now these fing sectarians claim that this is what Muhammad practiced. I beleive these bastards arte working together with the Jeiwsh Elite. Man this is deliberate. This is totally fed up. We need to get those responsible and cut every f**ing piece of their body off and feed it to the dogs. >( >( >(