Remembering the true nature of our enemy
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Islam's enemy is not any races but syethan in the form among men and jinn
And thus did We make for every prophet an enemy, the Shaitans from among men and jinn, some of them suggesting to others varnished falsehood to deceive (them), and had your Lord pleased they would not have done it, therefore leave them and that which they forge.
Todays conflicts between Islam and others not a conflict of idiologies but regional conflict quarelling of lands, oils, economics.
All Prophets were exerting struggles to make Islam as the only ad-deen for men (QS.61/9), so the enemies were idiologies made by father of nations.
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Peace Jankren n all,
I think what is kind of frustrating is that Yusha himself does not seem to be interested to be engaged in this discussion in the first place. I think he is content with what he believes in and will never consider other views.
I agree with what you, and the mods have said here. At first I was defending Yusha in that, he has his beliefs and just because he does, he shouldn't be shunned or attacked. I still stand by that, however, it seems like the 'princezeds' of the past, these type people not here to have intelligent or healthy discussions or debates. They are stuck in their ways and are only interested in preaching, and not once listening. nope
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I think before taking care the external enemy we should fix the enemies within first such as the ones who are promoting stoning to death practice in the name of Islam.
It is ****ing idotic that they often punish the females only for what they call 'wicked' behavior.
Peace Jankren, Honor
Multiply this x1.5million in Iraq and you get what so called civilised people have done to Arabs. As backward as some of those people in the video are, don't ever forget that western people are not dumb, know what they are doing and their leaders, backed by the people, have brought misery on hundreds of millions, if not billions of people.
As for Yusha, the problem in those countries are that you have on one side village idiot religious leaders with their backward message that leads nowhere versus people who want to ape western society with all of it's problems. The latter are viewed with suspicion and hostility due to western actions througout the world.
Roshan
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Peace all,
This happens when you follow those corrupt laws in the OT Bible(here stoning for adultery) which were supposedly also carried out by Moses and now these fing sectarians claim that this is what Muhammad practiced. I beleive these bastards arte working together with the Jeiwsh Elite. Man this is deliberate. This is totally fed up. We need to get those responsible and cut every f**ing piece of their body off and feed it to the dogs. >( >( >( -
Peace Jankren, Honor
Multiply this x1.5million in Iraq and you get what so called civilised people have done to Arabs. As backward as some of those people in the video are, don't ever forget that western people are not dumb, know what they are doing and their leaders, backed by the people, have brought misery on hundreds of millions, if not billions of people.
Noone is saying one side is better than the other. However, the fact is you cannot defend yourself from outside powers if you still believe in backward stuff such as killing your own people especially the women by stoning them to death just for showing 'forbiden' love to the opposite sex while at the same time they are silent on those who chant 'Death to America', 'Death to the Jews', and 'Death to the infidels'.
As for Yusha, the problem in those countries are that you have on one side village idiot religious leaders with their backward message that leads nowhere versus people who want to ape western society with all of it's problems. The latter are viewed with suspicion and hostility due to western actions througout the world.
Oh please bro, the Muslim world used to do the same thing which was terrorizing much of the known world. Do you know that shortly before the first Crusade occurred a band of Arab Muslim raiders sailed from their newly conquered territory Siciliy to Rome and sacked the city including the St. Peter's Basilica? Do you know that at one moment the whole Western civilization was besieged by Muslim civilization from the West in Spain to the East in Austria? Do you know that even the Protestant Icelandic people used to have a Christian song in which they asked God to protect them from the wicked Pope and the marauding Turks who frequently raided here and there as far as Iceland?
All Im saying is that the 'Eastern civilization' had their shares terrorizing others in the past while now the Western civilization is having their shares. And guess what with our mentality today of blaming others for our own shortcomings is not helping anything. Unless we stop all the stupid stuff we do such as promoting stoning to death and death penalty for apostasy we will keep getting our butt kicked by others.
Peace ,
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Peace all,
OK, what do you people think about the rapists? May be the stoning to death was practiced for the rapists or for such rapists who killed the female after raping her. Would you still see stoning to death barbaric? May be you Quran aloners and these traditionalists have understood the situation wrong?
Just curious!
With Respect, Hamsa
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May be the stoning to death was practiced for the rapists or for such rapists who killed the female after raping her.
It isn't reserved only for rapists apparently.Would you still see stoning to death barbaric?
The question in this discussion isn't if stoning to death is barbaric, the question imo to ask is, why is another punishment for adultery (stoning to death) being practised by people who claim to follow the quran when the punishments for adultery are already laid out therein, given that the emphasis on the quran being the criterion is also therein.May be you Quran aloners and these traditionalists have understood the situation wrong?
I don't think anyone is infallible, no matter what labels they have on them. When people have differing views, it's beneficial to analyse the sides and see which is more logical given the evidence.
My husband related this anecdote that took place at his uni recently. Apparently MIT has some really cool professor's. This guy is talking about "axioms of rationality" in his class (sensible statements of consistency among the preferences), goes on about how if someone doesn't choose them to be stupid. There is a pause in which no one says anything, then he goes, "I can't use that word in these hallowed halls of knowledge, therefore we can just call them irrational".
Moral of the story is, whatever beliefs and/or system one picks should be well thought out, have consistency in it rather than contradictions. The mind has to be utilised to analyse it from all angles and eventually picking one that is the most rational with the least amount of contradictions or best of all none. Surprisingly, this is what the quran itself asks from the reader, to verify for themselves and follow the best(1736, 3918 etc). Many times the sentences are constructed in a manner forcing us to use logic to reason through the statements made and when we superimpose those statements onto the bigger picture. It sharpens our minds and this is what I found to be one of the coolest aspects of the quran.
edit to add
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Peace all,
OK, what do you people think about the rapists? May be the stoning to death was practiced for the rapists or for such rapists who killed the female after raping her. Would you still see stoning to death barbaric? May be you Quran aloners and these traditionalists have understood the situation wrong?
Just curious!
With Respect, Hamsa
peace be upon you hamza
personaly,and i think its logical to think that stoning its way too torturous for a soul,of course the addrenaline doesnt let u feel the pain so intense,but it doesnt go just there,it affects those executing the punishment,they all go crazy and the minds change from that day,generation to generation with the same barbaric punishments only makes them savage animals.
the best way is a good ol tree and a long rope,let those who go over the limits hang from it.
i saw the video and for a second i lost hope on humanity,although all the time i think we can do better but not before a change, a revolution.and if the humans do not change i hope God makes the human race disapear for ever,even if theres a 50% who is not like that.God almighty knows best.
peace be upon you all and may God punish the wrong doers.
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AOA all
Moral of the story is, whatever beliefs and/or system one picks should be well thought out, have consistency in it rather than contradictions. The mind has to be utilised to analyse it from all angles and eventually picking one that is the most rational with the least amount of contradictions or best of all none. Surprisingly, this is what the quran itself asks from the reader, to verify for themselves and follow the best(1736, 3918 etc). Many times the sentences are constructed in a manner forcing us to use logic to reason through the statements made and when we superimpose those statements onto the bigger picture. It sharpens our minds and this is what I found to be one of the coolest aspects of the quran.
Good to see there is still some intelligence and logic in this forum.
regards -
peace yusha,
how will you explain this verse bro?
24 3. The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.
if the punishment for fornication is death by stoning, then why does God commands the believers, not to marry fornicators confused....how can believers marry those who are already dead by stoning? confused
peace
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peace yusha,
how will you explain this verse bro?
24 3. The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.
if the punishment for fornication is death by stoning, then why does God commands the believers, not to marry fornicators confused....how can believers marry those who are already dead by stoning? confused
peaceIn that particular Verse Nikah doesn't refer to marriage but the sexual relations. See Lane for different meanings of Nikah. http//www.studyquran.co.uk/
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In that particular Verse Nikah doesn't refer to marriage but the sexual relations. See Lane for different meanings of Nikah. http//www.studyquran.co.uk/
I think it means marriage, mainly because of the last sentence in the verse "and it is forbidden to the believers".
Fornication is forbidden to the believers whether with zani, idolator or anyone else .
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I think it means marriage, mainly because of the last sentence in the verse "and it is forbidden to the believers".
Fornication is forbidden to the believers whether with zani, idolator or anyone else .
Peace sis Samia,
According to my understanding, act of adultery is forbidden to believers. People who follow their desires only they can do such an act wheather male or female. And following our own desires is also a form of shirk which is prohibited to believers.
And also if a person has committed adultery it doesn't mean he/she cannot repent and come to the right path and will remain adulterer whole his/her life. So such prohibition doesn't match with forgiveness of God. How would you explain that?
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Has anyone seen Yusha lately? Maybe he/she (dont know P ) has gotten sick or on vacation.
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Peace LP,
Its just because no one is willing to buy any crap on this forum. So why not try somewhere else. )
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Kind of reminds me of this one philosophy forum I became an administrator on that had a really big spam problem because no one got on. So I was constantly banning people and deleting posts. Then I discovered that there were about 100 IP adresses who used the "Guest" username and thought that this is where all the spam comes from. I banned every single one of the IP adresses. The next day I learned that I accidentally banned myself. I felt so stupid.
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peace rasulhamsa,
In that particular Verse Nikah doesn't refer to marriage but the sexual relations. See Lane for different meanings of Nikah. http//www.studyquran.co.uk/
Thank you for your input, ?marriage or sexual relation??
(As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement. 24 2.
The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. 24 3.
going by your definition of nikah in this verse, I will rephrase my question
If stoning to death is the punishment for the unchaste according to yusha.
Then, how can God forbid the believers from having SEXUAL RELATIONS with those who logically should have been already dead by stoning? it doesn't make any sense.
further in the same sura it is stated
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity these are not affected by what people say for them there is forgiveness and a provision honorable. 2426.according to my understanding this verse supports 243 ?...men of purity are for women of purity and vice versa.... it can't be for sexual relation but marriage.
peace
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Peace Agentxxx,
As for I could understand about the stoning to death is it might have been the practice for the rapist who has also killed the female after raping her. For such an animal stoning to death fits perfectly. Otherwise I agree with you that for adulterer and adulteress Quran only mentions flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes and not a death penalty.
further in the same sura it is stated
Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity these are not affected by what people say for them there is forgiveness and a provision honorable. 2426.according to my understanding this verse supports 243 ?...men of purity are for women of purity and vice versa.... it can't be for sexual relation but marriage.
The verse 2426 doesn't refer to marriage but as simple as mentioned in the following verses
971 And the believers, men and women, are friends one of another.
8 74. And those who disbelieve - they are friends one of another.For 243 I would again say that you cannot make a law that an adultere/adulteress would remain the same whole his/her life and cannot repent and come to the right path. God is merciful, He is not unjust, so such a prohibition would end up a bizarre situation in the society, think for a second yourself what situation comes to your mind that if a person have come to the right path after committing zina but still he/she cannot marry anyone but to the adulterer/adulteress.
Peace, Hamsa
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peace rasulhamsa,
For 243 I would again say that you cannot make a law that an adultere/adulteress would remain the same whole his/her life and cannot repent and come to the right path.
Bro I thinks there is a misunderstanding? I never said or suggested that the unchaste can?t repent and come to the right path?
And those WHO WHEN THEY COMMIT AN INDECENCY OR DO INJUSTICE to their souls REMEMBER ALLAH AND ASK FORGIVENESS FOR THEIR FAULTS-- and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) DO NOT KNOWINGLY PERSIST IN WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. 3135.
(As for) these-- their reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them, and excellent is the reward of the laborers. 3136.
The only point I was trying to make was, that the verse 243 makes it clear , death by stoning as a punishment for fornication is not supported by quran.
I can?t even remember how many times I have repented through out my life? And I don?t know how many time in the future I will err???I try my best to keep myself on the right path, or stay as close as possible, but I have understood that as an average humane being, greed/temptations/emotions have/will sometimes made me swerve from the right path.
Forgiveness and mercy of the almighty are the attributes that inspire me to mend my ways and immediately get back on the right track after realizing my swerve.
peace