no miracles?
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Peace "AB",
Hello
I don't undersrtand what you are saying exactly, so the plural Ayat means verses but the singualr of it Aya does not mean a verse?
Is that what you are saying?
JK- Yes i could not find, being consistent, any place in the Quran where it uses the singular term "ayat" to mean a verse of the Quran. GOD Bless!
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Peace "AB",
JK- Yes i could not find, being consistent, any place in the Quran where it uses the singular term "ayat" to mean a verse of the Quran. GOD Bless!
Hello
That is not the answe bro
what I;m saying is this
you consider the plural word Ayat to mean verses
how come the singualr does not mean a verse?
this is not Arabic man, this is a language you made up to server your own desires
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this is not Arabic man, this is a language you made up to server your own desires
What do you mean? You can't find in Arabic a plural which means something (or more) but the singular does not mean that "something" or at least not one of the other meanings?
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Peace,
Is it not so that the plural "Tawwaab" means relenting, while the singular "Taibun" means repenting?
Nadeem
Hello
what is Tawwaab exactly?, isn't one of the properties of Allah?, it does not look plural to me, do you think Tawwaab "" is plural?
Now what Tawwaab has to do with Taibun ""?
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What do you mean? You can't find in Arabic a plural which means something (or more) but the singular does not mean that "something" or at least not one of the other meanings?
hmmm, i didn't say any of the two options above, here what I said again
"this is not Arabic man, this is a language you made up to server your own desires"
is there any other options?
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Peace All,
Sorry for interrupting the "ayat" discussion.
Dear Arnold,
Thanks for your explanation - after reading your post I came to understand from ways you explain possibly "how" the "miracle" might have actually happened as what happens "rarely" on earth. Yes, maybe that was "how" it happened (but that's merely a guess anyway) - but not "why". All things it can only "happen" by God's leave
659 And with Him are the keys to the unseen, none know them except He. And He knows what is in the land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls except with His knowledge; nor a seed in the darkness of the Earth; nor anything moist or anything dry; all is in a clear record.
and also
2169 We said "O fire, be cool and safe upon Abraham."
2170 And they wanted to harm him, but We made them the losers.Indeed, all things it can only happen by God's leave - so there's no "chance" - so there's no "rare". It's happening by God's leave as in the above verse "We made them the losers" - not "chance". God made the "miracle" thing happen in order to "We made them the losers". Therefore, His prophet's don't need "chance" to help them, right?
By the way, how would you explain this 2169 as not a miracle?
The miracle's explanation is probably
2117 Initiator of heavens and Earth, when He decrees a command, He merely says to it "Be" and it is.
359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.
3682 His command, when He wants anything, is to say to it "Be" and it is!
4068 He is the One who gives life and causes death. And when He decides upon anything, He simply says to it "Be" and it is.
Therefore, I would not think that the explanation for miracles are "no miracle" or Tidewinds or chance.
Full respect to you, no offence. I also never knew about Tidewinds, I sincerely thank you for sharing your knowledge. I just ask to know different views and ideas from different people on earth. I'm not saying that I'm right or concluding anything because only God knows best.
May God Guide.
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Peace All,
In continuation to my previous post
250 And We parted the sea for you, thus We saved you and drowned the people of Pharaoh while you were watching.
God parted the sea for them, whatever the way of "how" it was parted, but it was done by God so "thus We saved you" - clearly God saved them and not the chance of occurance of some "rare" thing. For me, I think that this is a "miracle". What you think?
May God Guide
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Peace All,
In continuation to my previous post
250 And We parted the sea for you, thus We saved you and drowned the people of Pharaoh while you were watching.
God parted the sea for them, whatever the way of "how" it was parted, but it was done by God so "thus We saved you" - clearly God saved them and not the chance of occurance of some "rare" thing. For me, I think that this is a "miracle". What you think?
May God GuideAll the laws of universe are made by God and whenever He says I did that it refers to His laws. Or you can say He did that or it happend according to His laws is one and the same thing.
For example
5663 Have you thought of the crops that you cultivate?
5664 Is it you who grow it or are We the Grower?How a seed grows from the earth, if you want to know just goto harunyahya.com and there you can find a wonderful video about that and you would see how God makes a seed grow.
God also sometimes refer actions of believers to Himself as He did that, because whatever believers do is also based on his laws. e.g
817 So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
So whenever God says I did that it means It happend according to His laws.
Peace, Hamsa
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Peace Zidane,
Rasulhamsa has already answered it correctly. As for the rest. Mankind has freewill, let's say the Children of Isreal would not cooperate that fast, they would have missed the phenomena and thus could not have crossed the sea, then Allah would show them a different way, as His possibilities are endless.
God parted the sea has He created the Laws for that, same that He also makes the leaves of a tree fall. It is not God randomnly intervening in His Creation by spliiting a sea at the moment He wants too, that is not necessary as His possibilities are endless, He can make use of His Creation in the way He created it.
God's Will is expressed through Revelation and His Laws in Creation, God explains this in the Quran, please read my article on the subject
Yasha or Will of Allah explained by the Quran
And we already had explained 2169, but here it is again for you
2168 They said "Burn him, and give victory to your gods if you will do anything."
2169 We said "O fire, be cool and salaman upon Abraham."
The key here is salaman which comes from salima, meaning to be in sound condition, well, without blemish, safe and sound, immunity, to preserve, peace, paradise, perfect and many more. Through the Laws of Nature we know that fire can never be cool when it comes to burning carbon fuel with oxygen. So this refers to the fire of the peoples rage on Abrahams defiance against their man-made idols.
In the Quran, Iblis is also described as being like fire. one of the important clues is verse 2137, where the term; KHULIQAL insanu MIN ajal, literaly means; He created man out of haste. Whereas the clear understanding is Man has been created with a tendency to be hasty and looking for instant gains or results. Such is the case with KHULAQAL jaanna MIN marijin MIN naar; He created the concealed sides of man with a fiery disposition(fire) when Iblis is described. Iblis is called a shaitan, jinn and malikah. Shaitan comes from shaat which is a long rope, and shaitan thus means anything that is distanced from God and progress. Jinn means something not perceived by human senses or concealed by borders as time, horizon or position, it was used for kings, as they are not seen by the common people, for nomads as they travel and live outside the cities so their lifestyle makes them not seen, it was used for insects, people who were special as for example a lover or a genius, it was used for legends as they are concealed by time. Emotions were also considered Jinn, concealed, as they were beyond grasp of the psyche and can only be experienced at the moment while your limbs are seen. Malikah comes from malik and means something in control and authority. Iblis comes from balasa and means someone desperate, deprivation, hopelessness , frustration, Person of desperate character, struck dumb with despair. In 712 it refers to having false pride and thinking to be superior over other things. It is created to err in 716. It is the desperate side created inside man which has control and power over us, and will not bow to us, to help us reach a higher stage of existence. It is concealed from senses, jinn, and is far from progress and Gods goal for humanity, shaitan, and is like a fire. These are all descriptions of mans selfish desire and emotions. So the fire of Abraham is the rage of his people.
They wanted to throw Abraham into a real fire, but in verse 2170 it says
2170 And whereas they schemed against him, We made them the true losers.
The same is said in 3798
3798 But as they schemed against him, We brought them low.
They were humiliated, which showed they couldnt carry on with their plan in killing Abraham, in 2924 it says that God rescued Abraham. This rescue is accomplished to travel away from his people as told in verse 2171. Thus the correct understanding is
2924 (Abraham explained these facts to his people) but their only answer was, "Kill him or burn him alive!" But Allah saved him from their fiery rage. Behold, in this story there are signs for believers (such as, when people have no sensible answers, they resort to threats and violence 2168, 3796-97).
2168 The priesthood of the temple (in their vested interests) instigated the masses, "Burn him alive and uphold your gods if you are going to take any action!"
2169 But We said, "O Fire! Be you cool, and security for Abraham." (The fire of their rage was cooled down in time 2924-26, 3788-89).
2170 And whereas they schemed against him, We made them the true losers. (They failed to value a man of his stature).
2171 And We rescued Abraham and (his nephew and close companion) Lot to the land that We blessed for all people. (They migrated from their homeland of Ur in Mesopotamia, today's Iraq, to Syria-Palestine that was blessed with a long line of Prophets).
Please read my book "Evolution of Thinking" which discusses most stories on the Prophets and their deeds
http//19.org/index.php?arnold
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All the laws of universe are made by God and whenever He says I did that it refers to His laws. Or you can say He did that or it happend according to His laws is one and the same thing.
For example
5663 Have you thought of the crops that you cultivate?
5664 Is it you who grow it or are We the Grower?How a seed grows from the earth, if you want to know just goto harunyahya.com and there you can find a wonderful video about that and you would see how God makes a seed grow.
God also sometimes refer actions of believers to Himself as He did that, because whatever believers do is also based on his laws. e.g
817 So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
So whenever God says I did that it means It happend according to His laws.
Peace, Hamsa
Peace Arnold, Hamsa,
Because it His law that
3682 His command, when He wants anything, is to say to it "Be" and it is!
Yes, it is in His law that all things normal happen and it also in His law that the extraordinary things that He wills to happen can happen - miracles - that's why it is God who Created the law and all things - He shows that He is the Creator - He is NOT under the law that he created for the creatures.
Arnold, Sorry, I didn't read your book yet, thanks for requoting from it to me.
3682 and all the other ""Be" and it is" verses I already quoted. Therefore it's ALSO his law that He can make miracles - that is what you're calling intervention.
The verses about miracles I quoted are clear enough until you bring your own version of the translation to change it completely - why? - Isn't the quran clearly spelled out so that you should take His miracles/signs metaphorically to understand it? What about the people who don't have deep imagination like you try to understand the Quran? God Guides whomever He wills. The Quran is CLEAR (but the "scripture" contains both clear and unclear verses as of 37... that is another topic).
411 H.M.
412 A revelation from the Almighty, the Merciful.
413 A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a compilation in Arabic for a people who know.(And so many other occurences in the initailed chapters.)
Full respect. No offence, As for your long explanation about the "fire". Thanks for your effort. I'm sorry that it didn't convince that, fire was not fire but it was their rage instead. I tried to follow your relevant referring verses but it was never clear to me that fire would be fire of their rage. Isn't "Burn him" clear enough? Can you burn things with rage? or you burn with fire? As for the "He created the concealed sides of man with a fiery disposition" - the "fiery disposition" and "fire" is not the same thing. Can I cook a kebab with using "fiery disposition"? I can burn things using real "fire" right? This is God's law right?
Full respect. No offence, thanks for all your explanation about the "roots" of words that you tried to make it refer to other things - I'm sorry that I (like so many created on this earth) don't know arabic so much like you and I'm surely not willing to root things until it makes the clear into the unclear. As for now, I want to understand God's message clearly without all the "parenthesis" that make it appear in other ways like of the traditional translations/intrepetations. That's why I quote from the progressive muslim's translation. I'm sorry if I have too little knowledge but I still discuss all these things.
And what about the clear miracle of the birth Zachariah's son?
197 "O Zachariah, We give you glad tidings of a son whose name is John. We have not given that name before to anyone."
198 He said "My Lord, how can I have a son when my wife is infertile, and I have reached a very old age?"
199 He said "It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything."Isn't it His law that infertile and very old people can't have babies but then "It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything." so then you should try to find patches to show that it is not a miracle in all those verses?
It is not "breaking His law". Is the law on us or on Him? Surely He is not under "our" law. He can show miracles on his prophets like in so many verses in the quran including this one. Would you call Resurrection breaking his law also? And the birth of Jesus also? When God already tells it many times that He can do it "He merely says to it "Be" and it is"?
And also the Birth of Jesus
1916 And relate in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
1917 She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human being in all similarity.
1918 She said "I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are a person of faith."
1919 He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1921 He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."
1922 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.
Some examples came to my mind
You are using this forum, you can't move posts of others, but the moderator can do it right? Is the moderator breaking his law when he moves a post? No, because it is also the law of the moderator that the moderator CAN move posts. But you can't move posts because you're a user.
Thanks for discussing and sharing your knowledge with me. I apologize if any of my words are inappropriate, May God forgive.
May God Guide.
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3682 His command, when He wants anything, is to say to it "Be" and it is!
Peace Zidane,
Be and it is! is not a magic that you blink your eyes and it is ready! Just think for a second it took 6 days(time periods) in the creation of the universe. And one day of God is equal to 50,000 our years. So can you figure out now what "Be and it is" mean? It simply means whenever God say Be it starts happening according to His laws that He Himself has made. Again Be and it is, is not like magic we see on the TV.
Peace, Hamsa
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Peace RasulHamsa,
Yes, I agree. And I didn't say it was like magic we see on the TV. There's no problem with that, but there are problems throughout the quran if you don't belive that He CAN do and did it as clear miracles on the prophets. That's probably why I see that there are so many parenthesis, many roots, many metaphors added if you think that way.
May God Guide.
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Peace RasulHamsa,
Yes, I agree. And I didn't say it was like magic we see on the TV. There's no problem with that, but there are problems throughout the quran if you don't belive that He CAN do and did it as clear miracles on the prophets. That's probably why I see that there are so many parenthesis, many roots, many metaphors added if you think that way.
May God Guide.Peace brother,
I am perfectly fine with your concept of God. My God (my concept of God) DO NOT and CANNOT do anything against His laws. My God is trust worthy. Everything in the universe from a little ant to galaxies is a sign of God, The Almighty for those people who reflect on these signs.
Peace, Hamsa
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Peace RasulHamsa,
) I belive in God as what is in the Quran. It is clear and I don't try to interpret it to conclude that what was said to have happened did not happen, nor do I say that God is under the law that he created for His creatures.
May God Guide
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peace
about the burning thing, i think how arnold translated it was that they INTENDED to burn him, they didn't actually do it.
but that's also another thing. how come there are different translations?
you, arnold, translate something one way (so it appears there are no miracles)
other translators translate it another way (so it appears there are miracles)only one of you can be right.
besides, when God said He will preserve the message, is that meant that it will be preserved only in the arabic language?
because the translations are different, i don't think there are 2 different qur'ans in arabic language, are there?and hamsa, i don't know how you can say that God can not do something. i hope that's a typo.
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Peace RasulHamsa,
) I belive in God as what is in the Quran. It is clear and I don't try to interpret it to conclude that what was said to have happened did not happen, nor do I say that God is under the law that he created for His creatures.
May God GuidePeace Brother,
I do not agree that we understand God as what in the Quran. But we understand Quran (and all scriptures) according to our concept of God we get from our cultures. People who follow hadith their God (their concept of God) allows them to believe in Revelation outside Quran. People who believe in trinity their God (thier concept of God) allows them so. People who worship idols their God (their concept of God) has no problem in that, and it fits perfectly to them.
We understand the scriptures according to our concept of God we get from our cultures.
Peace, Hamsa
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I do not agree that we understand God as what in the Quran. But we understand Quran (and all scriptures) according to our concept of God we get from our cultures. People who follow hadith their God (their concept of God) allows them to believe in Revelation outside Quran. People who believe in trinity their God (thier concept of God) allows them so. People who worship idols their God (their concept of God) has no problem in that, and it fits perfectly to them.
We understand the scriptures according to our concept of God we get from our cultures.
Peace Brother,
Initially, Yes I agree with you on this. Therefore, we must then ask God to Guide us to the Straight Path. Perhaps God would then show the true unbiased understandings to us. God Guides whom He wills.
May God Guide.
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and hamsa, i don't know how you can say that God can not do something. i hope that's a typo.
Peace brother,
You missed the whole sentence, I said God DO NOT and CANNOT do anything against His laws. That is according to my best understanding of the Quran.
Wama kana alnnasuilla ommatan wahidatan faikhtalafoo walawlakalimatun sabaqat min rabbika laqudiya baynahum feemafeehi yakhtalifoona
Mankind were but one community; then they differed; and had it not been for a decision that had already gone forth from thy Lord it had been judged between them in respect of that wherein they differ.
11110 And we verily gave unto Moses the Scripture, and there was strife thereupon; and had it not been for a decision that had already gone forth from thy Lord, the case would have been judged between them, and lo! they are in grave doubt concerning it.
20129 And but for a decree that had already gone forth from thy Lord, and a term already fixed, the judgment would have been inevitable (in this world).
4214 and had it not been for a Word that had already gone forth from thy Lord for an appointed term, it surely had been judged between them.
We can go against the laws God has made for us, and we can go against the laws we have made for ourselves. But God cannot go against His laws he has made himself. God is trust worthy thats why we can put our trust and faith in Him. He is also Just. For a better understanding of the concept of God just see all the occurances of His attributes in the Quran.
Peace, Hamsa