no miracles?
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All the laws of universe are made by God and whenever He says I did that it refers to His laws. Or you can say He did that or it happend according to His laws is one and the same thing.
For example
5663 Have you thought of the crops that you cultivate?
5664 Is it you who grow it or are We the Grower?How a seed grows from the earth, if you want to know just goto harunyahya.com and there you can find a wonderful video about that and you would see how God makes a seed grow.
God also sometimes refer actions of believers to Himself as He did that, because whatever believers do is also based on his laws. e.g
817 So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
So whenever God says I did that it means It happend according to His laws.
Peace, Hamsa
Peace Arnold, Hamsa,
Because it His law that
3682 His command, when He wants anything, is to say to it "Be" and it is!
Yes, it is in His law that all things normal happen and it also in His law that the extraordinary things that He wills to happen can happen - miracles - that's why it is God who Created the law and all things - He shows that He is the Creator - He is NOT under the law that he created for the creatures.
Arnold, Sorry, I didn't read your book yet, thanks for requoting from it to me.
3682 and all the other ""Be" and it is" verses I already quoted. Therefore it's ALSO his law that He can make miracles - that is what you're calling intervention.
The verses about miracles I quoted are clear enough until you bring your own version of the translation to change it completely - why? - Isn't the quran clearly spelled out so that you should take His miracles/signs metaphorically to understand it? What about the people who don't have deep imagination like you try to understand the Quran? God Guides whomever He wills. The Quran is CLEAR (but the "scripture" contains both clear and unclear verses as of 37... that is another topic).
411 H.M.
412 A revelation from the Almighty, the Merciful.
413 A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a compilation in Arabic for a people who know.(And so many other occurences in the initailed chapters.)
Full respect. No offence, As for your long explanation about the "fire". Thanks for your effort. I'm sorry that it didn't convince that, fire was not fire but it was their rage instead. I tried to follow your relevant referring verses but it was never clear to me that fire would be fire of their rage. Isn't "Burn him" clear enough? Can you burn things with rage? or you burn with fire? As for the "He created the concealed sides of man with a fiery disposition" - the "fiery disposition" and "fire" is not the same thing. Can I cook a kebab with using "fiery disposition"? I can burn things using real "fire" right? This is God's law right?
Full respect. No offence, thanks for all your explanation about the "roots" of words that you tried to make it refer to other things - I'm sorry that I (like so many created on this earth) don't know arabic so much like you and I'm surely not willing to root things until it makes the clear into the unclear. As for now, I want to understand God's message clearly without all the "parenthesis" that make it appear in other ways like of the traditional translations/intrepetations. That's why I quote from the progressive muslim's translation. I'm sorry if I have too little knowledge but I still discuss all these things.
And what about the clear miracle of the birth Zachariah's son?
197 "O Zachariah, We give you glad tidings of a son whose name is John. We have not given that name before to anyone."
198 He said "My Lord, how can I have a son when my wife is infertile, and I have reached a very old age?"
199 He said "It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything."Isn't it His law that infertile and very old people can't have babies but then "It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything." so then you should try to find patches to show that it is not a miracle in all those verses?
It is not "breaking His law". Is the law on us or on Him? Surely He is not under "our" law. He can show miracles on his prophets like in so many verses in the quran including this one. Would you call Resurrection breaking his law also? And the birth of Jesus also? When God already tells it many times that He can do it "He merely says to it "Be" and it is"?
And also the Birth of Jesus
1916 And relate in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
1917 She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human being in all similarity.
1918 She said "I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are a person of faith."
1919 He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1921 He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."
1922 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.
Some examples came to my mind
You are using this forum, you can't move posts of others, but the moderator can do it right? Is the moderator breaking his law when he moves a post? No, because it is also the law of the moderator that the moderator CAN move posts. But you can't move posts because you're a user.
Thanks for discussing and sharing your knowledge with me. I apologize if any of my words are inappropriate, May God forgive.
May God Guide.
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3682 His command, when He wants anything, is to say to it "Be" and it is!
Peace Zidane,
Be and it is! is not a magic that you blink your eyes and it is ready! Just think for a second it took 6 days(time periods) in the creation of the universe. And one day of God is equal to 50,000 our years. So can you figure out now what "Be and it is" mean? It simply means whenever God say Be it starts happening according to His laws that He Himself has made. Again Be and it is, is not like magic we see on the TV.
Peace, Hamsa
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Peace RasulHamsa,
Yes, I agree. And I didn't say it was like magic we see on the TV. There's no problem with that, but there are problems throughout the quran if you don't belive that He CAN do and did it as clear miracles on the prophets. That's probably why I see that there are so many parenthesis, many roots, many metaphors added if you think that way.
May God Guide.
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Peace RasulHamsa,
Yes, I agree. And I didn't say it was like magic we see on the TV. There's no problem with that, but there are problems throughout the quran if you don't belive that He CAN do and did it as clear miracles on the prophets. That's probably why I see that there are so many parenthesis, many roots, many metaphors added if you think that way.
May God Guide.Peace brother,
I am perfectly fine with your concept of God. My God (my concept of God) DO NOT and CANNOT do anything against His laws. My God is trust worthy. Everything in the universe from a little ant to galaxies is a sign of God, The Almighty for those people who reflect on these signs.
Peace, Hamsa
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Peace RasulHamsa,
) I belive in God as what is in the Quran. It is clear and I don't try to interpret it to conclude that what was said to have happened did not happen, nor do I say that God is under the law that he created for His creatures.
May God Guide
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peace
about the burning thing, i think how arnold translated it was that they INTENDED to burn him, they didn't actually do it.
but that's also another thing. how come there are different translations?
you, arnold, translate something one way (so it appears there are no miracles)
other translators translate it another way (so it appears there are miracles)only one of you can be right.
besides, when God said He will preserve the message, is that meant that it will be preserved only in the arabic language?
because the translations are different, i don't think there are 2 different qur'ans in arabic language, are there?and hamsa, i don't know how you can say that God can not do something. i hope that's a typo.
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Peace RasulHamsa,
) I belive in God as what is in the Quran. It is clear and I don't try to interpret it to conclude that what was said to have happened did not happen, nor do I say that God is under the law that he created for His creatures.
May God GuidePeace Brother,
I do not agree that we understand God as what in the Quran. But we understand Quran (and all scriptures) according to our concept of God we get from our cultures. People who follow hadith their God (their concept of God) allows them to believe in Revelation outside Quran. People who believe in trinity their God (thier concept of God) allows them so. People who worship idols their God (their concept of God) has no problem in that, and it fits perfectly to them.
We understand the scriptures according to our concept of God we get from our cultures.
Peace, Hamsa
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I do not agree that we understand God as what in the Quran. But we understand Quran (and all scriptures) according to our concept of God we get from our cultures. People who follow hadith their God (their concept of God) allows them to believe in Revelation outside Quran. People who believe in trinity their God (thier concept of God) allows them so. People who worship idols their God (their concept of God) has no problem in that, and it fits perfectly to them.
We understand the scriptures according to our concept of God we get from our cultures.
Peace Brother,
Initially, Yes I agree with you on this. Therefore, we must then ask God to Guide us to the Straight Path. Perhaps God would then show the true unbiased understandings to us. God Guides whom He wills.
May God Guide.
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and hamsa, i don't know how you can say that God can not do something. i hope that's a typo.
Peace brother,
You missed the whole sentence, I said God DO NOT and CANNOT do anything against His laws. That is according to my best understanding of the Quran.
Wama kana alnnasuilla ommatan wahidatan faikhtalafoo walawlakalimatun sabaqat min rabbika laqudiya baynahum feemafeehi yakhtalifoona
Mankind were but one community; then they differed; and had it not been for a decision that had already gone forth from thy Lord it had been judged between them in respect of that wherein they differ.
11110 And we verily gave unto Moses the Scripture, and there was strife thereupon; and had it not been for a decision that had already gone forth from thy Lord, the case would have been judged between them, and lo! they are in grave doubt concerning it.
20129 And but for a decree that had already gone forth from thy Lord, and a term already fixed, the judgment would have been inevitable (in this world).
4214 and had it not been for a Word that had already gone forth from thy Lord for an appointed term, it surely had been judged between them.
We can go against the laws God has made for us, and we can go against the laws we have made for ourselves. But God cannot go against His laws he has made himself. God is trust worthy thats why we can put our trust and faith in Him. He is also Just. For a better understanding of the concept of God just see all the occurances of His attributes in the Quran.
Peace, Hamsa
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Peace brother,
Its all our understanding how we take it. God cannot be unjust. You take it God is unable to be unjust. Its your choice how you perceive.
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Peace Brother,
Initially, Yes I agree with you on this. ) Therefore, we must then ask God to Guide us to the Straight Path. Perhaps God would then show the true unbiased understandings to us. God Guides whom He wills.
May God Guide.Peace Brother,
I agree with you we should ask God.
Thats why Quran asks us to clean our mind (from preconceived notions) before we touch it.
5679 The Book which none but the pure of mind can touch. (Those who approach the Qur'an with minds contaminated with preconceived notions and extrinsic material, will never understand it).
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Peace all,
Zidane, the word Kun which is translated as 'Be' only refers to a certainty, a certainty it will happen, it does not give any timelimit or how it is gonna happen.
Nerspi, people have translated the Quran differently because the previous generations under the influence of the Bible and Persians has laid out the rules for them that it must be so. Sadly, the Freeminds translations still is influenced by this thinking. Rejecting Hadith does not immediately imply they do not have influenced your approach.
And I'm certainly not the only one translating it as such, translators as Ahmed Ali, Muhammed Ali, GA. Parwez, Muhammed Asad and Noorudin all say the same thing as me. Muhammed Ali already said this in 1920 in the first ever English translation by a Muslim.
Sadly, translators as Yusuf Ali and Pickthal have determined the dominant approach, which is that of the Hadith-followers. Non-Muslim translators blindly followed the Hadith explanations of the Quran as they do not care what the Quran really says.
The Quran explains itself through repeating subjects and words in different contexts so we can understood the outlines of approach. It is also of course the God's Image people have. What Rasul means is that God do not break His Promises, and thus He voluntarely limits Himself, remember, He does this out of His own Freewill and decision. He still has the power to break His Promise, but He will not as God is the most trustworthy.
See how God limits Himself
240 O Children of Israel!
Remember My Blessings that I bestowed upon you (when you
were following My Commandments). Fulfill your promise unto Me
and I will fulfill My promise unto you. Be fearful of the
consequences of violating My Commands.Now He cannot deviate from His Promise as He is the Most Trustworthy. Does this mean He doesn't have the Power? Of course He has the Power, His Ability has NEVER been questioned, it is about WHAT God Himself SAYS what He does and do.
We all have an idea what God is, but we mostly forget that God tries to explain Himself what He is, but we rarely listen. See for example how He explains His Will in the Quran and you will see that it is completely different then you thought
Article Yasha or Will of God as explained in the Quran
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LOL
But Allah never promised anyone that he can't break the laws He created
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Exactly, Ahmed. Allah is a big fat flip-flopper. He does one thing one day and then something entirely different the next. Who knows, he might end up sending all the sinners to heaven, and all the pious ones to hell! Allah can't be trusted.
And not only that, Allah acts very unfairly. He picks his favourites and allows them to perform magic tricks, and performs miracles for them to save them from fire and what not but average joes like us are completely ignored. I mean, I have never ever ever seen a miracle in my life. I prayed 24 hours a day for three weeks for it to snow in July, but it never did. God says he answers our prayers, and performs miracles, and can do anything he can, so why didn't he let it snow in July? Why doesn't it ever snow in July???
Ahmed Baghat is absolutely right. Allah is a big fat jerk. -
306 Never does Allah fail to fulfill His Promise. But most people know not.
1055 Lo! verily all that is in the heavens and the earth is Allah's. Lo! verily Allah's promise is true. But most of them know not.Yes most people do not know that!
4122 But as for those who believe and do good works We shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. It is a promise from Allah in truth; and who can be more truthful than Allah in utterance?
59 Allah hath promised those who believe and do good works Theirs will be forgiveness and immense reward.
968 Allah promiseth the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode. It will suffice them. Allah curseth them, and theirs is lasting torment.
972 Allah promiseth to the believers, men and women, Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide - blessed dwellings in Gardens of Eden. And - greater (far)! - acceptance from Allah. That is the supreme triumph.
2247 and Allah faileth not His promise
39 Allah faileth not to keep the tryst.
1331 Allah faileth not to keep the tryst.Allah's words are His Laws because He cannot go against what He says! If your God can do otherwise then you are in trouble.
Peace all, Hamsa
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In most cases does Yad refer to Ability or Strength. As for cross-reference,
2948 And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with biyameenika, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.
To translate biyameenika here as Right hand does not make sense, because if he would have written it with his left hand then they would not doubt it? It clearly refers to Strength or Ability I believe.
Peace Arnold,
To transcribe something with the RIGHT HAND in above verse means to conjure it as in?
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
Laakhathna minhu bialyameeni
6945 We should certainly seize him by his RIGHT HAND, - And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart
There are numerous other metaphoric meanings for RIGHT HAND in Qur?an; power, authority, etc?
3967 No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him On the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth will be but His handful, and the heavens will be rolled up in His RIGHT HAND Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him!
3728 They will say "It was ye who used to come to us from the RIGHT HAND (of power and authority)!"
3793 Then did he turn upon them, striking (them) with the RIGHT HAND.
Whereas LEFT HAND has opposite meanings as like those blind in faith, etc?
1771 One day We shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imams those who are given their record in their RIGHT HAND will read it (with pleasure), and they will not be dealt with unjustly in the least.
1772. But those who were blind in this world, will be blind in the hereafter, and most astray from the Path.- Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.
9018 Such are the Companions of the RIGHT HAND. - But those who reject Our Signs, they are the (unhappy) Companions of the Left Hand.
- And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
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Be and it is! is not a magic that you blink your eyes and it is ready! Just think for a second it took 6 days(time periods) in the creation of the universe.
My God (my concept of God) DO NOT and CANNOT do anything against His laws.
Peace Hamsa,
What?s the difference if instantaneous or 6 eons?
What are those physical laws which would be broken?
Do we really know physics or enough about time which is a relative illusion?And not only that, Allah acts very unfairly. He picks his favourites and allows them to perform magic tricks, and performs miracles for them to save them from fire and what not but average joes like us are completely ignored. I mean, I have never ever ever seen a miracle in my life.
Attitude leads to greater faith and blessings ? truly I?ve been blessed and thankful?
http//www.jannah.org/quran/q_ghamdi_fatiha.ram
Peace
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Peace all,
Thanks for your detailed replies.
Dear Arnold and RasulHamsa,
Thanks for your explanation about God and His laws such as in
306 Never does Allah fail to fulfill His Promise. But most people know not.
1055 Lo! verily all that is in the heavens and the earth is Allah's. Lo! verily Allah's promise is true. But most of them know not.What I understand doesn't conflict with miracles at all, as I've said, that it is not "breaking His law". Is His law on us or on Him? Surely He is not under the law we are under. So how is he breaking the law? Isn't the the two clearly different
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We want to do something (our freewill) and God lets it happen if it's under His law on us like I will to fly like superman but I can't, but then I want to walk now, then God allowed it (I just saw that it happened now - real). This is the normal things that happen.
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God wants to do something (He is capable of all things), then it happens, there is noting affecting Him (not even time which is also created, but He can will to make it gradually also right?) Like the creation of earth, creation of Adam, creation of Jesus, and all the miracles. Also, don't mixup "law" with "promise". That's why the verses quoted about God is trustworthy, he ensures us that he does the good things and in God we put our trust. Hence, the word "trust" here. He is surely not under the laws that He made for us to be under.
Brother Arnold, I read parts of your article "Yasha or Will of Allah", the part explaining about Zacheria is very interesting and doesn't conflict. But I can't find where you re-explain the birth of Jesus miracle, where is it?
I read the first Mary part which is immediately after Zacheria part, Is that the the one you explain the birth of Jesus?
I hereby quote from your article "Yasha or Will of Allah"
"The same is with Mary where she is surprised to be chosen to bare a child, while in reality she thought she would be a nun the rest of her life. She asks how can I have a child? Allah answers with that His Will, which is expressed through His Laws, gives her the possibility to leave the Temple and get married. Which she does as explained in the verses after it. Mary believed it was Allah's Will to remain a nun, but Allah says she must submit to Allah's Laws and not to man-made ones. So her surprise was because of her misunderstanding of what really Allah's Laws were."
While the verses are
1916 And relate in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
1917 She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human being in all similarity.
1918 She said "I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are a person of faith."
1919 He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1921 He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."
1922 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.
Now, where does it say Mary went to get married to have Jesus - THAT WOULD SURELY CONTRADICT WITH 359 ABOVE - or would you say the creation of Adam was also as such?
May God Guide.
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Please read my book " Evolution of Thinking" which explains the Story of Mary in detail.
And Zidane, you present exactly why people believe in miracles, because you want too, not because the Quran necessarely says so.
It is a subject that needs a lot of study on different subjects in the Quran, so give it time.