Jesus, Virgin Births, Miracles, Symbolisms, cont...

[savage_carrot]

Salam thenabi...

Kyle, will answer your post later as i don't have the time to now...seeing as how i had a nice post and the pc crashed onme...must be a sign..of the heat... D

nabi...i believe that your perceptions don't make you see the point I do...does that make me or you lacking in knowledge?

You take too many of my statements and interpret them the wrong way...
let me explain more clearly...

Let's not let this be a long standing issue because we should not sink to such levels of depravity.

I assure you, now you are being overly dramatic... wink I have no intentions of letting this be a grave wound that i cannot recover from..

Firstly, i'm not going to go point by point as there is too much of a mish mash, to clarify, i'll list my belief the way i see would be more clear..

I believe that God is innately present in all of us from the start. I know this because i've experienced it, and other people must have experienced it too...I was told what He was, but when other concepts like loving mohammad and all more than God were discussed, deep down and orally i rejected this, all at the age of 6-7..meaning i had a sense and for lack of a better word, i felt Him present in me...

things were very clear then and have steadily become clearer...so this concept that children believe what they are told is true to some extent but cannot disprove that God is present in all of us from the start, and we can feel Him without preconceived notions far more then rather than later, if we reject Him then...might not be true for all...but this fact that we are born with the instictive knowledge is in my experience factual.

This innate belief/faith can grow to your benefit as long as you keep that open, and trust in God...are you saying God has not told you to trust in Him? Are you saying that God only said trust in Him after you have verified His existence? kind of a vicious circle...as we know from the book that we will not see the signs, that point to greater truths if we constantly reject...

This seal then, we put on ourselves, by God's leave after seeing everything albeit it being a slow process, of not accepting/rejecting/rebelling against the innate knowledge pointing to all the signs in the universe that scream His existence. This feeling of His closeness, is always present as God says, He is always near, only if we could understand that and not reject it...then we are good..and steadily closer to Him.

The test is to see for ourselves what the truth is, to come to God after being put in this world and given free choice. What will we choose if we are free to?

You said you were thinking/determining whether the quran is from God or not...doesn't make an iota of a difference to me as you should do what you think is best...if we need to discuss anything we can...

What do you mean by 'prove him materialistically'?

What do you mean when you say 'him'? Is God a man?

Proving Him materialistically means seeking to quantify Him, to prove without a shadow of a doubt to all that He exists.. with the facts we have at present, all of them, or some of them... No matter what we do, there will always be doubts in the mind of a disbeliever. We cannot know for sure...unless...maybe you'd like to fill in the blank here?!?

You know what i'm trying to say when i say Him...a rose by any name eh?? Why are you nitpicking? Will it make you happy if i call Him the God rather than just Him? wink

I also doubt it would take a lifetime for people to acquire 'blind faith' you are speaking of. It is always a condition of people in many enviroments/situations, whether it is with God or something they heard or read about.

This is a misquote as i meant that in your middle ages, if you have an open mind due to whatever circumstances and follow your perception, you will see the signs of God...having faith is akin to having an open mind with no prejudices or preconceived notions.

What I gather is that you believe on the premise of instinct rather than seeking knowledge for the authenticity of what you believe in. Is this correct?

What you should gather about me is what i'm saying very clearly, that i believe knowledge of God is innate/instinctive and by recognizing that, i start seeing signs all around me of Him...and my perception is heightened. Thus i start gaining more knowledge and it brings me closer to Him and the truths inherent in His universe...I really don't get what you're on about in the quote.

If i reject, this knowledge/faith/innate instinct then sooner or later i'm not going to see Him or get closer to Him, if i persist in this folly...i can always choose to redeem myself by opening my mind and letting go of preconceived notions and with reason and acceptance of instinctive knowledge, we get to where we gotta go.

I do not care if Kyle was not supposed to answer them, I simply asked if you could answer those 3 questions objectively

Testy, testy...can u answer rhetorical questions? wink Just kidding...Once again, if we reject this innate knowledge of God then no matter what you do you can't see the light, unless you can redeem yourself, by not being a consistent pain/rebel against God.

Nadia I am not attacking you, I made this clear in my opening statement and I shall reiterate, it is not my desire to attack your personhood.

I'd have appreciated it if you would not have referred to any lack of anything on my part as that just doesn't jive in an intelligent discussion...

Reject knowledge that really is not knowledge, since we do not know?

Here's where we part ways, you question God and His methods, you say we don't have knowledge when i can tell you from my own experience and many others would agree with me, that we have had these moments of closeness with God when we were kids...more clear or beautiful moments that i can't describe...which strengthened this feeling of accepting God/higher power which is oh so close to us...try to rationalize that...be my guest...keep in mind that we'll see whatever we want to..the only way we can can sure of what we are on about, is to trust in God, accept Him and ask Him to lead us on the straight and narrow!!

Thus, if there isn't a God...(not my belief) we'll still be good and if there is we've made it! Just a joke...thats what i say to my atheist friends.

You are not making sense. If faith is knowledge of God, how can it be so if you do not know?

Once again, different perceptions...i would suggest sit in a quiet place and just talk to Him...see if it makes a difference or leads you somewhere...if it doesn't work then maybe try something else...don't stop trying and you'll get closer to Him one way or the other inshAllah...there's just so much you can discuss with humans...after a certain point you gotta go it alone...as we are born so shall we leave.

And you answer by saying we must ride on instinct and that faith, or knowledge of God, means that we do not understand. Again I'm not sure where you are getting your concepts from, can you be accused of following similar verses (37) or do you really know what that means since you are obviously not those who know, you just have faith, which is not understanding? No insult intended, just bringing the food to the table.

Read the above statements, i have no wish to further spar with you...as i mentioned what faith is and how it's different from your perception...as you say i'm not obviously of those who know...i'm glad you can see the difference, can judge what is and what is not knowledge...i'm not worthy, o thou with discernment...i'm not worthy... wink just kidding...don't take it personally but i see we are coming from different places and living in different worlds...to u yours to me mine...

I'll leave you with a line from brothers in arms...i hope u like dire straits

We have just one world, yet we live in different ones...

Peace to you!

Nadia.

[marifhaq]

Dear all, Salam
Mary giving birth to jesus is very easy and simple to prove.Here is how it is possible

I was born in India,am interested in aquiring islamic knowledge.There was an islamic scholar named Sir Syed Ahmad Khan.He wrote quranic commentry amd was founder of aMuslim University.here is how virgin birth is possible. brickwall

During Mary s times,people use to take bath in ponds.No water taps in houses.now during taking bath,a man discharges due to stimulation by hand or water or by cloths,the sperm discharged remains in the pond s water,and then when Mary goes for a bath,the sperm is sucked up by her lips between her thighs,the sperm will or may cause a pregnancy.It was not a miracle,because Mary went through the 9 months of pregnancy period,could be a miricle only if Jesus was born in no time,or immediately.She did had the pangs of pain,like a regular pregnent lady.Ahmad the person who forwarded this idea was tlod by a critic,well hmmmm,it is a far flung idea,but could be possible only one in a million,he replied,so what,he claimed there are so many cases like that,but now the lady is either a muslim or christian or a jew,so such ladies when they claim becoming preg.without a husband are either murdered in cold blood,or they themselves run away from houses and would not tell so to anyone out of fear.

Dear free minders,if any one of you is interested to know,how the fire didnot burn Abraham,and how Moses crossed the sea safely but pharoh was drowmed,I have the answers.I can also prove that ,in the times of our prophet Mohammad,the great angel,use to bring quran not in verbal speech or sound only,he use to bring the quran in pieces,in the shape of written scrip in scrolls,because I have an archiogical proof from an very old item still preserved in some rich persons collections.I also some information that how Moses staff turned in a big snake.
hope you find it interesting. elektro yeah voodoo yeah