Secularism or Islam?
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Peace,
Can you please elaborate, with examples, on this faith-based punishment, quoting verses of quraan as evidence?
I only need one quote- There is no compulsion in deen.
This suggests to me that you cannot force anyone to follow Islam. People choose it on their will.
The only faith based judgement I refer to is if a muslim is to steal/be stolen from by a non-muslim, or a non-muslim killing or being killed by a muslim.
Al-Islam is a way of life while Secularism is another way of life.
I completely agree, but assure me 100% that the current Turkish Government will bring in pure Al-Islam.
Oh that's great!! someone expresses a contrary opinion and you wish them to leave and go to Saudi. The thing about democracy is that everyone has a right to their own beliefs, opinions, live with it, you're supposed to be a free country. Well maybe Turkey is evidently not. In my opinion if your Army does have a coup AGAIN, you're no worse than Saudi Arabia!! I have a right to my opinion, I know you won't be happy with what I've said!
It's very simple logic. The majority of people in my country want secularism, they don't want Sharia. Those that do, I'm showing them that they can migrate (as per the Quran) to Saudi Arabia where their Sharia is already implemeneted.
Your comparison between USA and T?rkiye is hilarious. Every counrty has its special conditions. 95% of population in T?rkiye is sunni muslim
95%?????????????????????
Incorrect. Turkey's population is around the 70 million mark. There are 20-30 million Alevi Turks, Alevi's are Shiite.
Turkey's laws, regarding some religous bans are probably out of date. The banning of such things as the headscarf, was implemented to move Turkey completey away from the caliphate (in the 1920s). Maybe freedom (for the headscarf) should be granted (from an outsiders perspective), but I don't want it, nor would I agree with it.
not because I'm against someone else's own opinion, but rather because the fundamentalists (in Turkey), who once they get their way, try to IMPOSE it onto others through VIOLENT AND PHYSICAL means.
As I said, for an outsider it's fine, but for someone who knows the ins and outs of the country then it's not fine.
Is wearing a hijab at university as an example such a great threat to your republic?
Oh most definitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See what I said above, you are an outsider and do not know the ins and outs of the country. These fundamentalists IMPOSE their beliefs onto others. they form their own 'ghetto's' and are violent to women who are not covered, violent to people who choose to drink alcohol.
Understanding has been shown by the Turkish republic many times to these people, but yet these people have always showed violence to other people.
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Can you please elaborate, with examples, on this faith-based punishment, quoting verses of quraan as evidence?
Peace,
I only need one quote- There is no compulsion in deen.
This suggests to me that you cannot force anyone to follow Islam. People choose it on their will.
The only faith based judgement I refer to is if a muslim is to steal/be stolen from by a non-muslim, or a non-muslim killing or being killed by a muslim.
The one verse you qouted is irrelevant.
As for the stealing, where did you get this notion? This might be shari3a law (I am not sure), but definitely not in the qur'aan (That's why I asked for evidence from the qur'aan). Look at verse 538 and see if there is any mention of faith.
Punishment for murder is treaty-based, not faith-based, 492
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We need to understand what the prophetic mission was. What was the porphet's job desrciption before answering the question of Islam and Secularism. Just doing everything the Quran says is not Islam or a real reading of the Quran. I will deal with this issue based on the prophetic mission in my next post about that since we are moving too fast. First lets define what is Islam, and the best way to know that is to look at what the Quran tells us about the porphetic misson and the purpose of the Quran.
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95%?????????????????????
Incorrect. Turkey's population is around the 70 million mark. There are 20-30 million Alevi Turks, Alevi's are Shiite.Selam
You are also incorrect, 99% of pupulation in T?rkiye are muslims, and when you look at sects that you can see 82% of them are sunni muslims, and %5.73 of them are Alevi-Shiite. When you estimate from these percentages, you can find a population of maximum 5 million Alevi-Shiite in T?rkiye not 20 million. -
Selam
You are also incorrect, 99% of pupulation in T?rkiye are muslims, and when you look at sects that you can see 82% of them are sunni muslims, and %5.73 of them are Alevi-Shiite. When you estimate from these percentages, you can find a population of maximum 5 million Alevi-Shiite in T?rkiye not 20 million.PEace,
yeah yeah yeah
Alevi's are shiite, not sunni. I wouldn't really classify them as shiite either. Alevi, religion and culture stems from shamanism.
Those 'official' stats released by the Turkish Government are a complete joke.
Many Alevi's don't reveal that they are alevi because of fear for the life. In the past and EVEN TO THIS DAY, Alevi's are freely murdered for the 'crime' of being Alevi.
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Although I would love to live in a just society that follows Islam in every facet of our lives, but as history shows humans are weak and are incapable of implementing Islam into society, so as a result I side with seperation of religion and state. Islam should be a path individuals strive to walk. A collective just cant manage it.
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To me; Quran teaches us to be more secular than secular..
If Secularism eq Separation of Religion Authority and State
And Islam eq NO AUTHORITY IN RELIGION (No Rahbaniyah System, No Priestly/Clerical System)
Then ISLAM = More Secular than Secularism
Due to NON EXISTENCE OF RELIGION AUTHORITY
(No Sanhedrin, Catholic Church, Majlis Ulema and other self-proclaimed religion authority)It is that simple...
So Secularism or Islam?
Answer Islam
Which is More Secular than SecularismSalam
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peace jafar,
To me; Quran teaches us to be more secular than secular..
If Secularism eq Separation of Religion Authority and State
And Islam eq NO AUTHORITY IN RELIGION (No Rahbaniyah System, No Priestly/Clerical System)
Then ISLAM = More Secular than Secularism
Due to NON EXISTENCE OF RELIGION AUTHORITY
(No Sanhedrin, Catholic Church, Majlis Ulema and other self-proclaimed religion authority)It is that simple...
So Secularism or Islam?
Answer Islam
Which is More Secular than Secularismi agree bro.
peace
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Easy agentxxx,bmbmm and all.
Secularism to me means not allowing supernatural/religious and/or unprovable laws/theories/policies to be implemented in human affairs against the consent of the people or the rightful representatives/upholders of justice...
No clear human rights may be overturned or overlooked because of 'supposed divine law' or so called religious rights...
Many of the imams/mullahs and islamic/religious academics are incapable of running a large populace of people peacefully or sucessfully... -
Peace to you as well agent...Nice to see you posting again... bravo sun peace How is life?
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Peace,
I think some of the people here have differences in their definitions of Secularism. Some see it as Anti-religion rule, others as rule allowing freedom of religion on the basis of allowing everyone civil rights. I think Rumi best described it by talking about different froms of secularism, American(allowing freedom of religion with limits to civil rights abuses), Turkish (trying to bann or do away with religion to create a secular image and culture(sounds more like how communism did things to me) etc.
We should be more specific and state that the Quran promotes freedom of religion, and democracy in the sense of consulting the people (you need the people's consent) i.e. Ashooraa.
Lastly, everyone here is speaking about Islamic states based on the Quran. However, I think here is a problem with this concept of an Islamic state. The Quran only calls for the believers to judge between themselves by the Quran and it outlines how we should deal with those who don't believe in the Quran. So, the Quran calls for an organization of believers, who work for each others betterment and establish themselves and a way to defend themselves for their success, material and spiritual. The Quran never tells its believers to rule over others. And that is what a state does. A state is like a little empire that rules over all. Some of you guys are vouching for an Islamic State when at best what the Quran calls for is an Islamic Organization or Brotherhood (rather a Quranic Organization or Brotherhood in which members are free to choose if they want to belong or not), providing for itself, bettering itself and being capable of defending itself. Not a state. We have no right to rule over others with the Quran or any other law. We can only give them asylum if they ask for it, and charity if they need it. When they attack us or try to hurt us we are to treat them as the Quran tells us to treat our enemies.
(which is not just to go slaughter them. The Quran tells us what to do if they fight us, if they repent and show no aggression, truces etc. etc.)Godbless,
Anwar -
Some of you guys are vouching for an Islamic State when at best what the Quran calls for is an Islamic Organization or Brotherhood (rather a Quranic Organization or Brotherhood in which members are free to choose if they want to belong or not), providing for itself, bettering itself and being capable of defending itself. Not a state. We have no right to rule over others with the Quran or any other law. We can only give them asylum if they ask for it, and charity if they need it. When they attack us or try to hurt us we are to treat them as the Quran tells us to treat our enemies.
(which is not just to go slaughter them. The Quran tells us what to do if they fight us, if they repent and show no aggression, truces etc. etc.)Good answers brother... bravo
I cannot agree with you more...Salam
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Maybe 1736 advocates secularism....I mean secularism involves not following or making as law/legislating that of which you have no solid knowledge of.....?