2:282 A female witness is ? a man?
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Peace bro Rumi,
I make this conclusion that women are more likely to err from the verse because it says
If you could not find the other man Then one man and two woman. One may ask WHY two women God! WHY NOT ONE?? Thats why the answer is given in the verse itself very clearly
If one errs the other remind her.
You can also notice from the verse that in the witness priority is only the men. If it happend that you could not find the other man only then you can ask two women to be witness.
As for your other question that where are proofs of women are more likely to err. So Quran is enough proof for me, I dont need any stamp of the scientists on facts of the Quran. But I know the differences in male and female brian are scientifically proved.
Salaam all, Hamsa
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Salaam sis Samia,
And if not?
There are different believes, people think that we need to ask both whatever is the case. But I think it depends on the situation if one doesn't err and both parties are agreed with her then there is no need to ask the other, but if someone ask for the more verification then of course the court can ask the other why not?
And if a male witness errs?
There can be thousand more ifs and buts with every law of Quran thus we should only try to obey the commands of God and should try not to follow the footsteps of people of Moses. They always raised such questions to Moses to avoid those commandments.
Peace all, Hamsa
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Peace all,
The actual witnessing is only of one woman of the two and thus it is a one to one ratio as far as the actual testimony is concerned.
Please see the following article
http//free-minds.org/women/2to1.htm
Excerpts from the above
The answer is obvious the key difference between men and women is their physiology. Women give birth and men don?t, women must rest for a lengthy period after child birth while men don?t, women as mothers must suckle their children while men don't, women have menstrual cycles which incapacitate their movement somewhat while men don?t. These differences exist as a matter of physical fact and have nothing to do with intelligence or will.
Other than 'future financial transactions' listed in 2282, the testimony of 1 woman = 1 man as can be seen
"If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way." (Verse 415)
"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after for such men are wicked transgressors;-" (Verse 244)
In-fact, there is even one instance where the testimony of a woman OVERRIDES that of a man!
"And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth; And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie. But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie; And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth." (Verses 246-9)
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Peace all,
Due to her responsibilities she is more likely to err than a man that is why the other woman is necessary for the issue of witness.
Thanks bro tanveer,
It does make sense. The confusion was the wrong translation of the word 'Tudhil'.
Due to her responsibilities she is more likely to 'Tudhil' than a man that is why the other woman is necessary for the issue of witness.
May God increase us in knowledge.
peace
Hamsa.
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Peace Nerspi, Hamsa,
You are welcome brothers.
Bro Hamsa, thanks for your explanation.
May The God guide us all to the truth.
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Salaam sis Samia,
There are different believes, people think that we need to ask both whatever is the case. But I think it depends on the situation if one doesn't err and both parties are agreed with her then there is no need to ask the other, but if someone ask for the more verification then of course the court can ask the other why not?There can be thousand more ifs and buts with every law of Quran thus we should only try to obey the commands of God and should try not to follow the footsteps of people of Moses. They always raised such questions to Moses to avoid those commandments.
Peace all, Hamsa
bravo
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There can be thousand more ifs and buts with every law of Quran thus we should only try to obey the commands of God and should try not to follow the footsteps of people of Moses. They always raised such questions to Moses to avoid those commandments.
Peace bro hamsa
yes we should try to obey but in order to do just that we have to do some questioning. And i think that the footsteps we should try to avoid is those of satan....if we just needed to hear and obey, why did god not only give us, but told us that we should use the ears, the eyesight and the brains ?
lk
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should try not to follow the footsteps of people of Moses. They always raised such questions to Moses to avoid those commandments.
This is a very dangerous advice, that's not to ask. People of Moses did not ask about something they could not understand, or something that could have more than one meaning. Moreover, the message in chapter 2 is not (do not ask questions), but (do not complicate the simple tasks commanded by God, or you will be in great agony).
However, we have in chapter 18, the very same Moses being advised not to ask, yet he kept asking a question after another, because he could not understand the wisdom of God. Did God blame him for that? No.
We can ask as much as we want until we understand and be satisfied.
And instead of addressing the "many ifs and buts" , why don't you just address my (2 ifs)? I think they are legitmate questions.
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Tanveer, Thank you so much for your insight AND thank you for providing the link, I had not realised that this topic has been featured on the site.
Peace all,
The answer is obvious the key difference between men and women is their physiology. Women give birth and men don?t, women must rest for a lengthy period after child birth while men don?t, women as mothers must suckle their children while men don't, women have menstrual cycles which incapacitate their movement somewhat while men don?t. These differences exist as a matter of physical fact and have nothing to do with intelligence or will
Other than 'future financial transactions' listed in 2282, the testimony of 1 woman = 1 man
In-fact, there is even one instance where the testimony of a woman OVERRIDES that of a man!
This is what I've been trying to point out to brother Hamsa. The words of a woman does not mean less, it is not because she is prone to err but of other reasons, as since other verses have pointed out where the consequences and actions of crimes truely show that her testimony is equal to that of a man, the rule of 4 witness needed is irrespective of sex.
As for your other question that where are proofs of women are more likely to err. So Quran is enough proof for me, I dont need any stamp of the scientists on facts of the Quran.
Hamsa, Like I've maintained and have stated before the Quran does not state that women are likely to err, there is no proof even within the Quran. Just because Quranic law with regards to future financial transactions states that a woman is to be provided with another sister IF she errs, is NOT the same as saying she is prone to erring! As I see it, the Quran dictates that women are to provided with this privilege over men, a service to less her burden perhaps for whatever reasons, it does not say she is less capable as a witness, that she NEEDS the second witness because she is less competent. I'm repeating myself brother Hamsa and so are you. I don't think we understand each other.
Salam.
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It is meaningless to suggest that a woman is half a man. The matterr relates to a particular business transaction and refers to a particular situation where two men are not available for witnessing the deal. Ordinarily women do not like visiting public and private places alone as they feel shy and embarrassed being alone female amongst few men. Two sisters were present and they explained freely to Musa alaih issalam but when one came to invite him to home she came feeling shy and reluctant, as explained in Alqasas 23-25. In the particular situation a woman not related to men who are party in the deal would not be interested to become a witness at a business place in the presence of four men (two dealing men, one Katib, writer of agreement, fourth witness). But it has been made obligatory to become witness.Therefore it would have been against the human rights of a woman to compell her become a witness in a deal she is not interested/concerned in as it is against her Psyche. Therefore two women. In the Court witness is only one. The other is to facilitate her companion if she forgets something. It is the will and discretion of the other to accept or reject. The court cannot interfere otherwise the witness of both will become meaningless and void.
I invite read a Book entitled Paiker Iffat o Haya at www.haqeeqat.org.pk which has discussed this matter in detail quoting from the entire Quran e Majeed.