Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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Peace bro Tanveer,
Thanks for your reply, however both of my questions are not answered, without a wahy no one can know there is a one Creator THE GOD, not everyone believes in a god so compass doesn't work. For the first question its not showing any sarcasm please read the Arabic text and see the context as well.
Lets see how others interpret it.
Salaam
Salaam Hamsa
Why, without wahy one cannot know there is one God? They do, and did, they may not know a god they can't perceive. Warners usually tell them who God is, not just there is God. People worshiped nature or its components, people, statutes...all this show that the concept of a god could be there. Warners come to clarify and correct this concept. they can even believe in another life (Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Incas, old Africans religions...).
I do not see any contradictions in these verses.
In fact, my problem is different I do not know how the prophet was sent to people to whom no warner was sent before. This contradicts the fact that he was sent to the whole world whether they had warners before or not.
This could also be the basis of Christians (or at least Copts in our region) who believe that Muhammad was sent to people who did not have a Warner before, but since they have one (or two) they are not concerned. They believe in Muhammad as (our) warner, and Jesus as (their warner).
So, was the prophet sent to people who were warned before or not? Why?
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Salaam Samia
Why, without wahy one cannot know there is one God? They do, and did, they may not know a god they can't perceive. Warners usually tell them who God is, not just there is God. People worshiped nature or its components, people, statutes...all this show that the concept of a god could be there. Warners come to clarify and correct this concept. they can even believe in another life (Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Incas, old Africans religions...).
So you mean people are born with a raw/wrong concept of god and prophets come to correct it? Also I said THE GOD and not gods. People always believed in gods and prophet came to tell them that there is only one GOD creater of everything and everything belongs to HIM. The people of prophet had the same concept they believed everything belongs to Allah. Also It is very clear in the verse they said, our forefathers are also promised the same.
I do not see any contradictions in these verses.
I am sorry but followers of hadith also see no contradiction in hadith and you know it very well.
In fact, my problem is different I do not know how the prophet was sent to people to whom no warner was sent before. This contradicts the fact that he was sent to the whole world whether they had warners before or not.
This as well.
This could also be the basis of Christians (or at least Copts in our region) who believe that Muhammad was sent to people who did not have a Warner before, but since they have one (or two) they are not concerned. They believe in Muhammad as (our) warner, and Jesus as (their warner).
Does it matter what christian believe?
So, was the prophet sent to people who were warned before or not? Why?
Prophet was sent to everyone, and quran also asks people of the book to believe in quran.
Thanks for your reply.
Salaam
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So you mean people are born with a raw/wrong concept of god and prophets come to correct it? Also I said THE GOD and not gods. People always believed in gods and prophet came to tell them that there is only one GOD creater of everything and everything belongs to HIM. The people of prophet had the same concept they believed everything belongs to Allah. Also It is very clear in the verse they said, our forefathers are also promised the same.
Salaam Hamsa
Well, if you mean if people need "wahy" to believe in God; I would say yes, with exceptions.
I am sorry but followers of hadith also see no contradiction in hadith and you know it very well. This as well.
So, the analogy is that, hadithists think there are no contradictions in hadiths, but there are, and I see there are no contradictions in these verses but there are?
Then that's your problem, not mine. Try to figure out how verses of the qur'aan are contradictory.Does it matter what christian believe?
Did I say it does, or this is what you understood from an example I used to explain what I meant? It seems the example did not work.
Prophet was sent to everyone, and quran also asks people of the book to believe in quran.
So, what about the verses you quoted saying that he was sent to people to whom warners were not sent before?
If you believe he was sent to everyone, and you have no problem with verses you quote, what was your question then?
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In fact, my problem is different I do not know how the prophet was sent to people to whom no warner was sent before. This contradicts the fact that he was sent to the whole world whether they had warners before or not.
So, was the prophet sent to people who were warned before or not? Why?Hello Samia
For the question that is puzzling you, here is my take on it
Let's say today is 1/1/2007, in about 150 years or less from now about 1/1/2150, every single human on earh will be replaced, i.e. all 7 billions (or whatever the number is ) who are living right now in every inch on earth MUST BE DEAD in about 150 years, so the whole earth population will be replaced with no expception to any human, that means the Quran statement is 100% accurate because the last menssenger that was sent to the people was about 500 years prior, so the people who was living at Mohammad time, NEVER EVER RECEIVED A WARNER
Salam
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Then that's your problem, not mine. Try to figure out how verses of the qur'aan are contradictory.
I am trying to undertand them, however haven't seen any satisfying reply. May God help.
Did I say it does, or this is what you understood from an example I used to explain what I meant? It seems the example did not work.
Yes I couldn't get.
So, what about the verses you quoted saying that he was sent to people to whom warners were not sent before?
I dont know.
If you believe he was sent to everyone, and you have no problem with verses you quote, what was your question then?
Yes, I believe prophet was sent to everyone, but what those verses mean I dont know.
salam
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Salaam,
It seems quite logical that the people of prophet actually didn't receive any warner before, but they said 2383 Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime;. Unless its not a lie, their forefathers received warners not them, but what about this
366 That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.
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Salaam,
It seems quite logical that the people of prophet actually didn't receive any warner before, but they said 2383 Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime;. Unless its not a lie, their forefathers received warners not them, but what about this
366 That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.
I understand it as "they were warned, but did not listen to the warning, so they were not warned". In Arabic, I do not think there is a verb as "yuntatharu" which would give this meaning, so the same verb is used for the passive and the participle.
The verses that follow made me think of this understanding367 they deserved the punishment as they do not believe.We put around their necks iron collars reaching to the chins....
Then there is the example (3613) of the man who advised his people to accept what the messengers came to tell them....
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Salaam
I understand it as "they were warned, but did not listen to the warning, so they were not warned". In Arabic, I do not think there is a verb as "yuntatharu" which would give this meaning, so the same verb is used for the passive and the participle.
The verses that follow made me think of this understanding367 they deserved the punishment as they do not believe.We put around their necks iron collars reaching to the chins....
Then there is the example (3613) of the man who advised his people to accept what the messengers came to tell them....
Why dont you take literal meanings? I am thinking how can I udnerstand these verses if I take literal meanigns and dont look at history of hadith and without adding my own words?.....
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Peaple of prophet didn't receive any warner before him. 2846, 323
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Their forefathers also didn't receive any warner. 366
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People of prophet said, their forefathers received the same promise. 2383 (if they are not lying I dont know)
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They already believed in Allah as creator and Lord of everything in the earth and heavens. az-Zukhruf (43) 9, Soorah az-Zukhruf (43) 87 and Soorah al-Ankaboot (29) 63. 2385-91
May God guide.
Thanks
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Salaam
Why dont you take literal meanings? I am thinking how can I udnerstand these verses if I take literal meanigns and dont look at history of hadith and without adding my own words?.....
Just how I am not taking literal meaning? And who is adding words or looking at history of hadith? I explained what I understood and why, from the verses that follow. Anyways, thanks for your input.
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Salaam Hamsa
I think the Messenger was sent amongst the predominantly Arabic speaking pre dominantly Nabataean people living east of the Jordan River and the Peninsula. The reason for using ?pre-dominantly? in both accounts being there were Arabic speaking Jews and Christians and Aramaic/Greek speaking Nabataeans. I think whoever who was not a Jew or a Christian was known as a gentile and the Messenger was sent amongst them. The Nabateans, with the large Jewish Population living amongst them and the influence of Christianity backed by the powerful Roman Empire and also due to contacts between the Arabs and the Romans would be familiar with the teachings they refer to as promises. The promise people say they received does not mean that there has been a Warner or Messenger sent by Allah amongst them. The concepts of these promises are in the teachings of Judaism and Christianity as well.
The verses do not say the Messenger was only for his people.
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Just how I am not taking literal meaning? And who is adding words or looking at history of hadith? I explained what I understood and why, from the verses that follow. Anyways, thanks for your input.
I have just asked the question and not really added anything, but thanks to you sis that you explained, though I am not in agreement at the moment. I'll have to see other occurances where prophet talk to his people and I let the quran explain itself.
Thanks again.
Salaam
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Salaam Hamsa
I think the Messenger was sent amongst the predominantly Arabic speaking pre dominantly Nabataean people living east of the Jordan River and the Peninsula. The reason for using ?pre-dominantly? in both accounts being there were Arabic speaking Jews and Christians and Aramaic/Greek speaking Nabataeans. I think whoever who was not a Jew or a Christian was known as a gentile and the Messenger was sent amongst them. The Nabateans, with the large Jewish Population living amongst them and the influence of Christianity backed by the powerful Roman Empire and also due to contacts between the Arabs and the Romans would be familiar with the teachings they refer to as promises. The promise people say they received does not mean that there has been a Warner or Messenger sent by Allah amongst them. The concepts of these promises are in the teachings of Judaism and Christianity as well.
The verses do not say the Messenger was only for his people.
So is history important to well explain the verses of quran? How can we understand those verses if we dont use history at all?
Salaam
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Salaam Hamsa
Good question. Most of these things are in the Quraan. Ummieena should mean Gentiles. Also see the verse ?..Two people were given the book before us?.? The Quraan mentions of Allat, Uzza and Manat which is the Nabataean pantheon and about giving daughters to Allah. There are many verses which puts all these things together and possibly what is not inportant for us is left out.
Also there can be certain things we can not prove if people childishly start arguing for instance that Egypt was in America and Pharaoh was an ex-president of USA.
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Ummieena should mean Gentiles.
Salam bro
Can you please elaborate regarding the above statement?, what Gentiles means excatly?
Thanks
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Until Messiah Ayman and his followers in the 21st century realised that every Muslim had been completely duped and Kabba & Mecca had no connection and Mohd neve did Haj in Mecaa and it was all a conspiracy. Exactly who, where and when this conspiracy tooke place the EVIDENCE IS ZERO. But eh so what why let this minor matter get in the way of Messiah Aymans thoeries based on Quranic verses which have very little to do with the point he is making. Yet Messiah's followers are convinced that every interpertation of the Quran is wrong other than his.
Nice; very nice.
Agentxxx
As you can see the YOU in 2846 and the HE in 2847 is not Moses but Mohammad.
And the words ?you were not there? is to indicate that the prophet was informed of the past events by Wahi.
So? What did I wrote? do you even read the post before responding?
AgentXxx
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raj-ah Therefore Quran correctly says "So you can warn a people who received no warner before you" (to tell them the story of Moses).According to your interpretation Warning is just telling the story of Moses
This quote of yours further assures you did not read my post, or you did not understand it.
You are just trying to put words in my mouth, What I said is thisThe story of Moses and Pharoh is being explained to the Arabs/Meccans through Muhammad so they may get lessons from this story.
This is not only place where Allah has used this way of speech, for example in Surah Hood, in Surah Imran 44 and Surah Yousaf 102, similar type of wording is used please read them carefullyBut in this particular Surah Allah is telling the story of Moses through Muhammad to the Meccans, therefore Warning in this particular verse is regarding MOSES and To Meccans.
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Raj-ah-Abraham rebuilt/rennovated the Kaaba that is in Mecca as ordered by Allah, and was inviting the People of Allah to the house of Allah.For what? did god just ordered him to rebuilt and then get out of there for good, never to return again.
For piligrimage; and Abraham assinged his Son there and left because he was assigned somewhere else.
Also read this by AhmadBahgat
Also mate, Ibrahim was never caled Rasool in the Quran, he was only called Nabi as far as I remember, i.e. Ibrahim was never sent to any people with a message from God, He was only a Nabi, i.e. He was to tell the people (no specific people) around him about God and the JD, no laws to follow
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Tanveer
There is ZERO evidence of existence of Mecca during the revelation of the qur'aan.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of the so called Kaaba in Mecca during revelation of the qur'aan
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.Is this Prayer of Abraham and Ismail still unanswered??
If these prayers are been answered then KAABA in MECCA is the Place and Surely Abraham and ISmail have built it.The best speculation a sincere and logical person can come up with is that Ka?ba was undoubtedly established and Hajj instituted some time during the the visit of Abraham to Mecca. There is, in fact, evidence that can prove this speculation. For example, the examination of pre-Islamic Arab poetry.
"Mecca," is the word, "makorba," or "temple." The religion of the pre-Islamic Arabs was a mixture of Bedouin polytheism, Judaism, and a little bit of Christianity. The pre-Islamic Arabs worshipped three goddesses, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, who were all daughters of one god, Allah?this one god was probably derived from the monotheistic religions of Judaism and Christianity. Mecca was the center of this religion with its Ka'ba, or "Cube," which served as the temple for the religion.This exactly tallies with what Quran tells us; The religon of Abraham has been corrupted and people had made daughters of Allah, therefore you (Muhammad) have been sent to bring them back to the original.
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Hajj - The pilgrimage to Mecca required of every Muslim at least once in his life.
Haji - 1. A Muslim who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca. 2. In the Near East, a Christian who has made a pilgrimage to the Holy Sepulcher at Jerusalem.
(The Reader?s Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary)
Therefore the concept of Piligrimage is not so unique among Muslims. As some of brothers are so impressed by Westeren and non muslim propganda they have started their own version regarding this, we should look in to matter further deeply
It is curious that the concept of hajj pilgrimage is no longer known in the Western Judeo-Christian traditions, although as pointed out by the definitions quoted at the beginning of this article, a pilgrimage with a similar name is still practiced by the Eastern Christians.
These are some of the prophets whom GOD blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping.After them, He substituted generations who lost the Contact Prayers (Salat), and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.
Most of them forgot the actual teachings and stopped HAjj and Salat and other duties. They for got what is written in BIble
How lovely is Your dwelling place, O Lord Almighty! My soul yearns, even faints for the courts of the Lord; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young a place near your altar, O Lord Almighty, my King and my God. Blessed are those who dwell in Your house; they are ever praising You. Blessed are those whose strength is in You, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with blessings...? (Psalm 841-6)
This psalm is also known as the psalm of the pilgrimage. It seems to reflect the children of Israel?s ancient longing for the House of God that their patriarch Abraham had built in Baca (Becca), and their ancient practice of making a pilgrimage there. In a sense, it confirms what historian Ibn Ishaq wrote in the 8th century AD about the ancient Jews who used to make a pilgrimage to their patriarch Abraham?s temple in Mecca, centuries before Ibn Ishaq?s time. They stopped the practice when the inhabitants of the city turned into ?unclean polytheists.? Their setting up of idols around the Ka?ba, and the blood which they shed there, presented an insurmountable obstacle for them (Guillaume, op.cit., p.9).
The Holy Scriptures of the Jewish Publication Society retained the name Baca, but used ?the highways? instead of ?pilgrimage? (although still in the context of the road to pilgrimage). The crucial passage is now read ?Happy is the man whose strength is in Thee; in whose hearts are the highways. Passing through the valley of Baca...? The New American Bible?s 1977 edition of the Catholic church, on the other hand, kept the word ?pilgrimage? but translated the proper name ?Baca? using its secondary meaning ?the mastic tree.? The passage read ?Happy the men whose strength you are! Their hearts are set upon the pilgrimage. When they pass through the valley of the mastic trees,....? and its true meaning is irreparably lost.
Indeed, in Arabic and Hebrew, the word becca/baca also means ?the mastic or the balsam tree.? Another meaning of the word is ?the overflowing tears.? These two meanings fit the description of Mecca as well. Mecca is a place where these evergreen trees are found in abundance (the Meccan balsam is a well known name in pharmacopeia). Furthermore, the commemoration of God?s Name - and God alone - during hajj, truly brings tears to many a pilgrim?s eyes.
Needless to say, the most reliable source from a Muslim?s perspective is the word of God in the Quran. Historical records also supported the Quranic assertions that the concept of one God, as well as the salat, hajj, fasting and charity practices of Abraham were apparently preserved by his descendants from Ismail. This could have been one of the reasons, and certainly God planned everything, that the Final Testament - the Quran - was sent down to complete the religion of Abraham through Muhammad of Arabia, who came from Ismail?s line.
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Also mate, Ibrahim was never caled Rasool in the Quran, he was only called Nabi as far as I remember, i.e. Ibrahim was never sent to any people with a message from God, He was only a Nabi, i.e. He was to tell the people (no specific people) around him about God and the JD, no laws to follow
Salam
Peace
Er..
I believe a Prophet is automatically a Messenger but a Messenger is not necessarily a Prophet... ( a bit off topic, worth noting though ) -
Peace all,
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.Is this Prayer of Abraham and Ismail still unanswered??
If these prayers are been answered then KAABA in MECCA is the Place and Surely Abraham and ISmail have built it.This is clear proof how some people are twisting and distorting The God's words for their desires.
Firstly, the word is "bayt"/house and NOT "shrine". Shrine is a pagan tample containing pagan idols.
Secondly, the relevant sign NEVER says that Abraham raised the foundation of the house, but CLEARLY says that Abraham raised the foundations FROM/"MIN" the house. It is "qawa3id MIN/FROM albayt", not "qawa3id albayt".
2127 And as Ibraheem raised the foundations FROM/MIN the house with Ismaeel "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."
Thirdly, nowhere does al-qur'aan say that the house is in Mecca, but CLEARLY says "bibakkata" (396). The God does not make typos, unlike some people who believe so.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town in Arabia called Mecca prior to the 8th century CE.
Since Abraham lived many centuries prior to the 8th century CE, then he couldn't have been to a town called Mecca.
The best speculation a sincere and logical person can come up with is that Ka?ba was undoubtedly established and Hajj instituted some time during the the visit of Abraham to Mecca.
Subhanallah, He makes Rajah accept from his own words that he is SPECULATING !!
6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
There is, in fact, evidence that can prove this speculation. For example, the examination of pre-Islamic Arab poetry.
What is considered pre-islamic poetry has been CLEARLY proven to be POST-QUR'AANIC INVENTIONS. Please see the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8182.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9527.0
"Mecca," is the word, "makorba," or "temple."
More evidence of clear cut twisting !! The word used in al-qur'aan is "makkata" meaning "destruction", and has nothing to do with the so called Mecca or "makorba" or "temple". There is ZERO evidence of the existence of a town called Mecca prior to 8th century CE, and this name was hijacked from the common noun "makkata" from al-qur'aan later on.
There is also no evidence in al-qur'aan of the house being in Mecca. According to the qur'aanic evidence, the so calld Kaaba in Mecca does not meet ANY requirements of "albayt alharaam" and thus cannot be what is mentioned in al-qur'aan.
Mecca was the center of this religion with its Ka'ba, or "Cube," which served as the temple for the religion.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town called Mecca or the so called Kaaba during the time of revelation of al-qur'aan.
This exactly tallies with what Quran tells us; The religon of Abraham has been corrupted and people had made daughters of Allah, therefore you (Muhammad) have been sent to bring them back to the original.
The religion of Abraham has indeed been corrupted. Evidence of this corruption is the so called Kaaba in Mecca, in the form of a black cuboid idol which symbolizes the pagan idols and the stone in a dilated vulva shaped enclosure symbolising the crown of the newborn fertility goddess coming out of a dilated vulva, and the "foot print idol", and the pagan rituals of mindlessly spinning seven times around those idols and kissing them.
All this has NO BASIS from al-qur'aan and clearly indicates a continuing love for those filthy pagan idols and rituals. These pagan practices were incorporated into the islamic system ater the death of the Prophet by the pagan hypocrites and it is degrading and insulting to the Prophet to insinuate that he must have sanctioned these filthy pagan practices.