Hitting kids
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Peace,he West has taken the other extreme, peobably in response to all tht Christian dogma they went through who to this day are shouting morals, bible, morals, bible. The point is we need to adopt the scietific method in all aspects of our lives. It works everywhere. Thts wht lead us to undertand and is still leading us to understand the Quran correctly. So then taking what the Quran and the Quran Alone already states as basic laws we derive further issues be they laws or morals and all the details through rational thought and the scientific approach. Its really simple if everyone just contributes a little by the billions of ppl we have. Its when ppl get lazy n they wanna follow their Mullahs or priests tht such probs arise. GOD Bless!
The essential problem with this approach is that it is not sanctioned by the Holy Quran. Interpreting the religion from a purely scientific perspective will render a deviated religion. Science is a human source of knowledge which is derived from empirical observations, etc. But in the Holy Quran it is revealed that only Allah Taala is the Knower of the Unseen (aalimul ghaib), and there are matters of the unseen which we don't know, and will never know. For example, concerning the spirit of inspiration, the Holy Quran says The spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)" (1785)
There are many other things which only Allah Taala will ever know, such as the precise time of our death, and the hour of the Day of Resurrection. There is an inherent danger if we begin to interpret the Holy Quran based solely on our rational thought our science. We should interpret the Holy Quran as it was interpreted by the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and follow that, because he received revelation which clarified the Holy Quran as well, (i.e. the Sunnat).
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Peace "yusha",
The essential problem with this approach is that it is not sanctioned by the Holy Quran. Interpreting the religion from a purely scientific perspective will render a deviated religion. Science is a human source of knowledge which is derived from empirical observations, etc. But in the Holy Quran it is revealed that only Allah Taala is the Knower of the Unseen (aalimul ghaib), and there are matters of the unseen which we don't know, and will never know. For example, concerning the spirit of inspiration, the Holy Quran says The spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)" (1785)
JK- The verse you quoted has another interpretation also but anyways even if take this it doesnt mean wed never get to know wht it is in our lifetime. The only Being we can never fully comprhend is GOD because Hes infinite and all else is finite. Secondly we must use the scientific method to understand the Quran. Otherwise how can we undertsnad the terms it uses WITHOUT BEING BIASED? Do you see now?
There are many other things which only Allah Taala will ever know, such as the precise time of our death, and the hour of the Day of Resurrection. There is an inherent danger if we begin to interpret the Holy Quran based solely on our rational thought our science. We should interpret the Holy Quran as it was interpreted by the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and follow that, because he received revelation which clarified the Holy Quran as well, (i.e. the Sunnat).
JK- By this statement uve only taken the prob one step further. The Prophet aint alive right? ll tht u have is written pieces which are CALIMED to be from the prophet. Now once again those very writings too require an interpretation so here again wed reqire science and rational thought and using these we and many others have come to the conclusion tht most of them contain the same nonsense as the OT Bible. Here an article
http//www.y19.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51
On the other hand intepreating the Qurnaic terms by referncing to the clssical usage of the terms whilst taking into account context and grammar plus archeological findings lead to a marvellous and unbiased study of the Quran which brought many people from all parts of the world to it and the study is continuing. GOD Bless! -
If we look at the natural world all incorrect behaviour is corrected through pain.
If we eat too much it hurts, eat to little it hurts. Eat the wrong food ... it hurts alot.
Walk without looking it hurts, walk too much it hurts, too little it will hurt eventually.The punsihment for adultry etc is pain in the quran.
What does God threaten us with ...... pain.
The human is conditioned to learn in this way so badly that it is silly not to employ it to reform bad behaviour in children.
We sometimes over estimate ourseleves, thinking we are rational and reasonable beings .... ;D ... we all need a good slap from time to time.
peace.
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Salam.
Let me tell you a story.. a true one. If not mistaken, there's a chinese proverb "the more you love, the harder you beat."
I attnded chinese primary school for six years.. It is very unusually to see a teacher without her rod...
and it is also rare for students NOT to be beaten on the palm in a week.. forgot to bring your book, here, i have a gift for you.. you have 10 wrong answer? show me your palm..didn't cut your nails short? giveup I was in the 'front' class (schools in m'sia divide their students into classes based on their accumulated examination scores), yet the smart students recieve beating from time to time.. from year 1 to year six..Each time it gets harder on the palms, my friends got red/ blue black on their palm.. Imagine what the naughty and rebellious kids gets? Sure, the teachers would tell us they love us and the reasons for the hitting.. but like Malay proverb, "enter one ear, exist the other ear"... ;D
To some extend, it works for discipline but.....once we entered high school or the punishments are taken away.. ehehehe ..
or, maybe it just doesn't work on me. ;D
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If we look at the natural world all incorrect behaviour is corrected through pain.
If we eat too much it hurts, eat to little it hurts. Eat the wrong food ... it hurts alot.
Walk without looking it hurts, walk too much it hurts, too little it will hurt eventually.The punsihment for adultry etc is pain in the quran.
What does God threaten us with ...... pain.
The human is conditioned to learn in this way so badly that it is silly not to employ it to reform bad behaviour in children.
We sometimes over estimate ourseleves, thinking we are rational and reasonable beings .... ;D ... we all need a good slap from time to time.
peace.
I like your philosophising of smacking handshake
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I like your philosophising of smacking handshake
And when Sunni says men can beat their wives at a last resort?
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Peace be upon you,
Is hitting kids in Islam condoned? >(
Hitting kids IMO is just plain cruel, a slap lasts a second, the physical pain lasts a minute, but the emotional pain lasts a lifetime. '(
peaceSalam.
I'm totally against hitting kids!
Period!
Kids are to be tought why and what, not hit.
If a child does something wrong, whatever, ask him why s/he has done it. Make a dialogue with the child, find out why would a five-year old break a vase or throw ice cream on the floor or make his clothes dirty or be late for dinner or scream, ask the child, see what the answers come.
Why?
Because that way the child will think and calculate and decide if he or she will do it again, the child will see if such an activity gains anything.
If the child breaks a plate, ask him why.
If he has no answer, he will think that the action was in vein, he broke the plate for nothing, furthermore, he will notice that one member of the family has no plate to eat from at the next dinner.
Child will think.Hitting a child is wrong.
Peace.
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Hitting a child is an idiotic practice, yes. But look at the youth in the UK, a lot of them NEED to be put in their place. And the fastest way to a man's heart is with a very heavy stick.
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I agree that hitting a child firmly is not a good idea. I was abused as a child and know the emotional scarring that goes along with it. However, when talking to a child and redirection does not work, I am a firm believer that a spanking is beneficial when used sparingly. I would always give a warning, then I would place them in time out, then time out with a lecture/discussion, but if all that fails, then I would give a swat to the back of their hand (not to the point of pain, but just enough to startle them into realizing that you are not playing a game with them and that you are serious.
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Peace be upon you,
Is hitting kids in Islam condoned? >(
Hitting kids IMO is just plain cruel, a slap lasts a second, the physical pain lasts a minute, but the emotional pain lasts a lifetime. '(
peaceSalam.
True, i agree.
I'm also against hitting children, even against slapping on the wrists.
Kids are to be taught not to repeat the mistake, we need to show them where they went wrong.Today, the adults make mistakes and they expect that we won't punish them, if they say they're sorry.
When someone hurts me and tells me, i'm sorry, i tell them, don't be sorry, just don't do that again.Simple, right?
Peace.
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Peace all
I intensely doubt that i'll ever hit my kids. I am against hitting kids (unless defending yourself) and only lightly do you defent yourself )) however i have been hit before by both parents. In the worst case my mum placed a boiling tea spoon on my wrist (i did something very dangerous though) elektro which i can still make out the mark on my wrist today and that was more than 10 years ago and i remember my mum crying intensely after she did it. there was also a case where my mum smacked me in the mouth and i was bleeding and she said "you deserve it" which contrasts the first incident. But not of that has ever left any emotional scars.
I know they made a mistake but i know that they are deep down kind to me and that they love me but they have not given much thought as how to raise me.
In your case Angel, how often were your parents kind to you????
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I was hit as a kid, quite hard at times, but I turned out ok.... I think
Mind you, if I had kids I dont think I'd hit them. If it came to it, at most hit them just enough so they felt it, not hard. I'd prefer to use psychology on them, more fun that way ;D
I strongly believe in teaching children cause and effect, i.e. if they did something wrong you must explain to them why it was wrong. And generally, if they ask Qs, explain how things work etc.
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Peace,
I think hitting kids is so wrong even if I have done it many times before when my kids were younger. I regret it alot and wish it was undone.
In my case i have realized that I was the one who wasn't in good shape, i was unhappy and therefore took out the anger on the kids.
It might be the case for other parents too who hit and/or abuse their kids.
I was a young mom and i hadn't found myself and I was so childish myself so it was that we were hitting eachother as kids use to do when arguing over simple stuff.
Now 16 years after my firstborn I feel alot more mature and it might be the reason that I don't live with my kids anymore just visit them. I have found myself after so many years of just focus on their needs and my husband's needs.
So from now on I will focus on me first because if I do that and I feel good then I will do good to others as well. It's the same as the old words of wisdom quote " Love yourself and you will love other aswell".
Peace
Maria -
I have been knocked out by the things that some of you have written that your parents did to you when you were kids. For hitting I understood a couple of slaps on the buttocks not the repertoire I have seen. I was only hit once when I was a kind by my mother. She must have been very frustrated because I hadn't done something or whatever, and she slapped me on the face. That has stuck in my memory as a great injustice. I did not deserve it, she didn't make up with me or anything. And hitting on the face is humiliating. On the other hand at school I had a woman teacher who could take us kids as sparrings when she got mad. And she hit me also on some occassions, but I cannot have a bad souvenir of that and I liked her because in fact she cared and she liked us and she was affectionate, she would hugg us and listen to us and treat us not like strangers. Finally adults are not made of stone or wood and children may be real devils. Once in a year or so, they really do it on purpose, they provoke, they keep provoking, keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, annoying and going beyond every reason to drive you mad. No, it isn't that they don't understand something and they need explaining, no, they are after driving you mad, clearly. And finally when you are mad and spank their behind, pam pam, and say everything that is in your mind like in a torrent... they are happy, really happy, they love you, they hug you, they sit on your lap, they would do anything you might care to ask for, not out of fear, no, they are happy, they are with you. Now they are sure that you are a capable adult since they see that you cannot be taken for a ride and therefore they are safe in your hands. So, my take is if they want to be reassured that way, you better do it, otherwise they will not be sure that you are really capable of asserting yourself and therefore capable of protecting them. Of course I am talking about 2 to 8 years, after that I don't think it is useful or welcome or that they need it. by then they know, or if they try you it is some other way.
And the slap on the mouth of the child that told her mother a swear word was very appropriate if is done on the moment. Half an hour later won't do. I would have done that too.
Also cruelty may not involve hitting or yelling, just plain injustice, without excuses or explanation, can leave scars and sadness forever, far more than any physical gesture. And I think that in the case of Angel, as I perceive it, is the sheer injustice of they whole thing that hurts so deeply. It reminds mi in fact of what Profet Isa said in one of the gospels whoever shocked one of this little children better would be to tie a millstone round his-her neck and trow him-her into the see(something like that). Children can go happily through a lot of roughness if they are loved and hugged and squeezed and told sweet words. It is the lack of these things in fact what breaks their heart more than the presense of the others (spankings or whatever). It is coldness more than an ocassional anger what is cruel.
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I have been knocked out by the things that some of you have written that your parents did to you when you were kids. For hitting I understood a couple of slaps on the buttocks not the repertoire I have seen. I was only hit once when I was a kind by my mother. She must have been very frustrated because I hadn't done something or whatever, and she slapped me on the face. That has stuck in my memory as a great injustice. I did not deserve it, she didn't make up with me or anything. And hitting on the face is humiliating. On the other hand at school I had a woman teacher who could take us kids as sparrings when she got mad. And she hit me also on some occassions, but I cannot have a bad souvenir of that and I liked her because in fact she cared and she liked us and she was affectionate, she would hugg us and listen to us and treat us not like strangers. Finally adults are not made of stone or wood and children may be real devils. Once in a year or so, they really do it on purpose, they provoke, they keep provoking, keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, annoying and going beyond every reason to drive you mad. No, it isn't that they don't understand something and they need explaining, no, they are after driving you mad, clearly. And finally when you are mad and spank their behind, pam pam, and say everything that is in your mind like in a torrent... they are happy, really happy, they love you, they hug you, they sit on your lap, they would do anything you might care to ask for, not out of fear, no, they are happy, they are with you. Now they are sure that you are a capable adult since they see that you cannot be taken for a ride and therefore they are safe in your hands. So, my take is if they want to be reassured that way, you better do it, otherwise they will not be sure that you are really capable of asserting yourself and therefore capable of protecting them. Of course I am talking about 2 to 8 years, after that I don't think it is useful or welcome or that they need it. by then they know, or if they try you it is some other way.
And the slap on the mouth of the child that told her mother a swear word was very appropriate if is done on the moment. Half an hour later won't do. I would have done that too.
Also cruelty may not involve hitting or yelling, just plain injustice, without excuses or explanation, can leave scars and sadness forever, far more than any physical gesture. And I think that in the case of Angel, as I perceive it, is the sheer injustice of they whole thing that hurts so deeply. It reminds mi in fact of what Profet Isa said in one of the gospels whoever shocked one of this little children better would be to tie a millstone round his-her neck and trow him-her into the see(something like that). Children can go happily through a lot of roughness if they are loved and hugged and squeezed and told sweet words. It is the lack of these things in fact what breaks their heart more than the presense of the others (spankings or whatever). It is coldness more than an ocassional anger what is cruel.
I didn't read the rest of the post. But I agree that coldness is more cruel then spanking.
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In your case Angel, how often were your parents kind to you?
when they felt like it, when i was younger that was not very often.
they were just crap parents.
they have improved over the years though.
my younger siblings don't have to put up with half as much as what i had to put up with.
I think hitting kids is so wrong even if I have done it many times before when my kids were younger. I regret it alot and wish it was undone.
In my case i have realized that I was the one who wasn't in good shape, i was unhappy and therefore took out the anger on the kids.
It might be the case for other parents too who hit and/or abuse their kids.
yeah my parents have said that they regret it.
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Peace be upon you,
Is hitting kids in Islam condoned? >(
Hitting kids IMO is just plain cruel, a slap lasts a second, the physical pain lasts a minute, but the emotional pain lasts a lifetime. '(
peaceSalam.
Respectfully.As soon as i saw this topic i just had to answer
I am 100% against hitting children and women, i'm against yelling at them, i am also against spankiong kids as well.Peace.
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This thread has brought tears to my eyes.
Children should be treated with loving kindness, and mercy for their trivial mistakes,
they just got here! Compassion is remembering what it was like to be small, and to be bossed around by big people.
One should seek knowledge of child development to understand. There is plenty of good parenting information out there. I mean, books and websites, with techniques and researched information way beyond the concept of "occassional hitting".
Indeed, there are severe punishments in our religion, but surely children are not going to commit Adultry? Or steal anything more than some crayons out of the drawer?--Perhaps to draw you a picture, because they trust you, because you don't hurt them. Instead, you show them.
Doesn't God show you? He brings situations into play, makes you recognize the signs, causes the lesson to manifest.
Doesn't God show mercy and give you space to learn? Or do notice lightning bolts flying from the sky every time someone breaks a rule? Patience!
They are helpless and depend on you, especially for love--keep that in mind as your choosing how hard to strike.
