Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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AOA all
48;24
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Free minds translation, or check any other translation. Not Arabic speaking but the word Mecca seem even obvious to me. Is this another pagan conspiracy?
regards
bravo
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stillearning you aren't paying attention... tanveer is trying to tell you that every word except makkah is being translated when the word makkah should be translated along with the rest.
so of course you see "mecca" in that translation because it hasn't been translated as it should be
anyways y'all enjoy facing your brick. have fun! P
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AOA Aoron
Your fellow new sectist has been repeating again & again that there is zero evidence of Mecca in the Quran...Of course I must have misunderstood him unlike you
stillearning you aren't paying attention... tanveer is trying to tell you that every word except makkah is being translated when the word makkah should be translated along with the rest.
Very kind, perhaps you will be kind enough to point this out where he made this specific point.
so of course you see "mecca" in that translation because it hasn't been translated as it should be
Feel free and educate us with your translation.
anyways y'all enjoy facing your brick. have fun!
'( Off course when dealing with such intellect an knowledge like yours.
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Wow, winner!
It does say Mecca in the transliteration and all...
Edit Arabic script also.
God knows how this is explained apart from the obvious.
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Wow, winner!
It does say Mecca in the transliteration and all...
Edit Arabic script also.
God knows how this is explained apart from the obvious.
Yes, now we have found the Mecca in the quran as well, lets see how we translate it now...interesting quest.....hehehe
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AOA Aoron
who the hell is Aoron?
Your fellow new sectist has been repeating again & again that there is zero evidence of Mecca in the Quran
well you know there are alot of things tanveer and i disagree on so i wouldn't go jumping the gun and calling us fellows or new sectists
and i would venture to guess that he was referring to mecca the city, not makkah the word... but feel free to twist his words if you like, it's up to you... and something between you and him for you two to deal with
Feel free and educate us with your translation.
feel free to actually be sincere in your desire for knowledge or don't ask me to explain things to you when you aren't going to listen anyways... what's the point?
anyone who is that interested can get themselves a dictionary and go over the possible meanings and decide which they feel best suits the situation.
Off course when dealing with such intellect an knowledge like yours.
off course when dealing with a potential candidate for dental surgery such as yourself
anyways if you're that stuck to your belief then have at it, i don't post here for the benefit of the likes of you anyways )
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48;24
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Free minds translation, or check any other translation. Not Arabic speaking but the word Mecca seem even obvious to me. Is this another pagan conspiracy?
regards
Z The silliness of it all...I would advise our fellow pagans to at least become aquainted with the arguements proposed by Ayman, Tanveer, and others pertaining to "Mekka" before venturing off into strawman/ignorance land.
I know, its difficult to read stuff that doesn't agree with one's "father's beliefs" but, trust me, its better than looking like a fool.
Based on the etymologicial, lingusitic, and archeological evidence, the word "Mekka" in verse 4824 should be translated as "destruction" or a "wearing down"..
Ayman In the classical Arabic dictionaries, the word "maka(t)" mainly means "destruction/wearing down", among other meanings. It is listed in classical Arabic dictionaries under either MKK or MK.
Al-Mohit lists it under MKK, the meaning given is destruction and wearing down which is consistent with the context of standoff in 4824. It also lists the meaning of TMKK as an adversary's insistence on something, which is also consistent with the standoff in 4824.
Lisan Al-Arab lists it under MK and the meaning of MK(t) is given as "destruction" and TMK as "destroy".
Al-Wasit lists it under MK, the meanings given are sucking everything out, insisting on revenge from an adversary, and the thing, which is worn down or destroyed.
Al-Ghani lists it under MKK, the meanings given are sucking, insisting with demands on an adversary -
Peace all,
Thank you brother Zeljko for the explanation.
In Arabic language, proper names are not capitalized. So how can one differentiate a common noun from a proper name ? If the meaning of the word fits in the context, then it cannot be a proper name.
Any word whose meaning makes sense in the context MUST be understood as a common noun. On the other hand, proper names are meaningless labels that don't reflect the truth about what is being described. For example, when talking about the administrator of this website, Layth is a proper name. However, if I say ""lyth" is the king of the jungle and he preys on weaker animals" then this is most likely a common noun meaning "lion".
The common NOUN meaning of "makka" as "destruction/wearing down/insistence on the adversary" fits perfectly in the context of 4824. Hence it cannot be a proper name. The pagan hypocrites hijacked this common noun from al-qur'aan and renamed one of their towns containing their pagan shrine to match this common noun some time after the death of the Prophet. The fact that the common noun "makka" fits in the passage in al-qur'aan is enough proof that present day Mecca is a fraud.
Following is the translation of 4824 using Classical Arabic dictionaries and the context of war to translate the word "makkat"
- And it is He who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of destruction/wearing down after that He gave you the victory over them. And The God sees all that you do.
Please see the following for details about "makka"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9281.0
The building named as Masjid Al-Aqsa is a similar example. It was built by the Umayyads at the end of the 7th century, many years after the death of the Prophet and hence even the staunchest of sectarians are forced to admit that it cannot be "al-masjid al-aqsa" mentioned in al-qur'aan.
From archeological evidence, we have many examples of approximate stone cubes whose height is larger than the other dimensions (like the so-called Kaaba) bearing the name Dhu Al-Shaara and not the alleged name Kaaba. This confirms that, like the other stone cubes found elsewhere, the black stone cube in what is presently called Mecca was named Dhu Al-Shaara and not Kaaba.
The name was changed from Dhu Al-Shaara to Kaaba to match the common noun "kaaba" (base) in al-qur'aan. This way, the pagan practice of spinning seven times could be resumed while pretending to be following al-qur'aan.
The fact is that we know from archeological evidence that the Nabataeans celebrated the festival of the birth of Dhu Al-Shaara. We have manuscripts of letters written by Epiphanius the bishop of Salamis, Cyprus in the 4th century AD describing cults with mother-gods such as the Egyptian, Greek, and Nabataean cults. It is interesting that he described the birth celebrations of Dhu Al-Shaara as culminating with circumambulation seven times around the inner sanctuary of the pagan temple. For example please see Langdon, S., Semitic Mythology, The Mythology of All Races, Vol. V. Boston Archaeological Institute of America, Marshall Jones Company, 1931.
Pagan is as pagan does.
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Peace Warner,
There is an indirect connection. The "kaaba"/base is "albayt alharaam" (597). "Al-masjid al-haraam" is the inviolable institution of obedience to The God's laws and the physical building for that institution is "albayt alharaam" (see 2196, 597, 919, 4825).
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AOA
4824And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do."Mekka" in verse 4824 should be translated as "destruction" or a "wearing down"..Ayman In the classical Arabic dictionaries, the word "maka(t)" mainly means "destruction/wearing down", among other meanings. It is listed in classical Arabic dictionaries under either MKK or MK.
So lets replace with other alleged meaning(s)
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of destruction, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Or
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of wearing down, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
I know, its difficult to read stuff that doesn't agree with one's "father's beliefs" but, trust me, its better than looking like a fool.
Hands against them in the interior wearing down...DOES NOT AT ALL SOUND STUPID OR FOOLISH DOES IT.
regards -
Salaam stillearning
The problem with the translation you provide is the word (interior) which is not the equivalent of the Arabic word " ba6n", literally, "belly" front. It is usually used in opposition to " Dhahr back". This is not the word used for "cities/towns/...In Arabic you do not say biba6n almadeena if you want (inside/in the interior). In fact "qalb" which is literally heart, is used with towns to mean "city center".
biba6n is more logical to mean confront/confrontation than interior.
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Salaam bro,
Hands against them in the interior wearing down...DOES NOT AT ALL SOUND STUPID OR FOOLISH DOES IT.
hehehe....hold your horses bro.... need to see every word!
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of destruction, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
You are very close, the word you didn't tranlate is "bi batni". I think makkata=destruction does fit in the context, I have seen the lexicon for "batni" and found many meanings, I dont know which one fits the best here. Lets see anyone could help me here.
4824
Transliteration Wahuwa allathee kaffa aydiyahum AAankum waaydiyakum AAanhum bibatni makkata min baAAdi an athfarakum AAalayhim wakana Allahu bima taAAmaloona baseeran
Salaam
Thanks sis, It does make sense. I was writing while you relplied...hehehe
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Salaam Samia
I am not an Arab or an Arab sholar and did not provide the translation but was using the means provided by those who claim Mecca does not mean Mecca. When any one with any semblance of an intelligence can see that the verse is referring to a place called Mecca. But then why accept the obvious when the ridiculous is will do.
off course when dealing with a potential candidate for dental surgery such as yourself
I might a potential candidate but. If the intelligence you have shown so far is reflected in the rest of your life then no doubt you are on first name terms with your dental surgeon.
Salaam Rasulhamsa
Bro all I ask is keep read the posts with an open mind that you have displayed so far. Please dont be seduced by those who think being intelligent is to be simply different no matter how ridiculous. Just read the posts and see how often the new sectist make statements without any evidence and then simply refuse to readdress the point. Take care.
regards -
peace stillearning
only one verse in quran refers to mecca (4824) and the word could very well mean destruction.
another verse (3.96) refers to becca, and everyone says its mecca. Bizarre argument of those saying that no falsehood enters quran. But valid for the 19ers, as there code relating to the occurence of "b" fits ...i am not an arab either, nor an arab scholar, but i might consider myself more of a "stillearning" than you seem to do when you say
When any one with any semblance of an intelligence can see that the verse is referring to a place called Mecca.
or how can you be so sure ?lk
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Rajah wrote
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.Is this Prayer of Abraham and Ismail still unanswered??
If these prayers are been answered then KAABA in MECCA is the Place and Surely Abraham and ISmail have built it.TAnveer's Translation
2127 And as Ibraheem raised the foundations FROM/MIN the house with Ismaeel "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."
Ok even if we take your translation still the question remains the same, combining it with second verse
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful
My question was, is this prayer of Abraham and Ismail been answered??
Tanveer
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town in Arabia called Mecca prior to the 8th century CE.TAnveer
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town called Mecca or the so called Kaaba during the time of revelation of al-qur'aan.I am clearly understanding your agenda, but will not allow you to make fool of innocent youngsters
Infact it is you who has no evidence for your arguments and I have presented to you many and am going to present it to you again
Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian of 1st century BC who wrote Bibliotheca Historica, a book describing various parts of the discovered world. The following lines are the English translation of Greek quoted by Gibbon from the book of Diodorus Siculus (Diodorus of Sicily) describing the 'temple' considered to be the the holiest in the whole of Arabia.
And a temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians
It is interesting to know that Claudius Ptolemy of Alexandria, mathematician and astronomer, flourishing about a century after Pliny, undertook to make an atlas of the habitable world. He was not a descriptive geographer, and his book was intended to be no more than a commentary on his maps. He enumerated some hundred and fourteen cities or villages in Arabia Felix.
For example, Dumaetha, placed by Ptolemy just outside the northern boundary of Arabia Felix, must be the mediaeval Arabian Daumet, which is today the chief village of the great oasis of Jauf. Hejr, famous in the "times of ignorance" as the seat of a kingdom, and now Medayin Salih, is Ptolemy's Egra. His Thaim is Teima, now known for its inscriptions to have had temples and some sort of civilization as far back as 500 BC. It is the Tema of Job. In Lathrippa, placed inland from Iambia (Yambo), we recognize the Iathrippa of Stephan of Byzantium, the Yathrib of the early Arab traditions, now honoured as El Medina, the City of Cities.
G E von Grunebaum says
Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabian foundation created around a sanctuary
Besides these, Francis Peter Edwards has also mentioned in his writings the existense of Mecca as a holy place before Muhammad's time.
You have been proven wrong!
Similarly in the pre-islamic poetry there is also mention of the city.
Dr. Ahmed Shafaat in his article " Hajj; Piligrimage to Makkah" notes
- In ancient Arabic dialects the sounds "b" and "m" were interchangeable, so that Makkah was also sometimes called Bakkah. The Qur'an uses here the archaic Bakkah instead of the more usual Makkah in order to emphasize the very ancient character of the city.
The interpretation of the valley of Baca as a "the valley of weeping" makes sense because of the distress which Hagar(P) underwent when she was left with Ishmael(P) in the barren desert with no means of living.
The two interpretations of Baca, viz., "lack of stream" and "the valley of weeping" appears to fit in the context of pilgrimage to Bakkah, the older name of Makkah where the Ka'bah is situated. Ka'bah has been a place of reverence by all Arabians before the Christian era as we have seen earlier.
So what do you say?
As usual "this is hearsay" Ok if it is why don't you answer as stilllearner has been asking from you since long?
- Where is the Bayt located mentioned in Quran?
- What is your proof for it?
Although this is a useless and fruitless debate going on but still it is our duty to tell the truth.
Actually your argument is so senseless and childish that just to spend time and effort seems useless.
May be if One on One Thread could be started you or those against you could be exposed within few posts, If you will, I can present myself, if you think i am not good enough you can choose AhmadBahgat if he has time and is willing that will be interesting. -
But then why accept the obvious when the ridiculous is will do.
Salaam SL
The obvious is the meaning known for "ba6n" and its usage. The rediculous is to put a meaning and a usage that does not exist, just to make it fit with a preconception. If you do not know Arabic, this is not an excuse. Search dictionaries...Hans Wehr, and even better, Lane's Lexicon.
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For example, Dumaetha, placed by Ptolemy just outside the northern boundary of Arabia Felix, must be the mediaeval Arabian Daumet, which is today the chief village of the great oasis of Jauf. Hejr, famous in the "times of ignorance" as the seat of a kingdom, and now Medayin Salih, is Ptolemy's Egra. His Thaim is Teima, now known for its inscriptions to have had temples and some sort of civilization as far back as 500 BC. It is the Tema of Job. In Lathrippa, placed inland from Iambia (Yambo), we recognize the Iathrippa of Stephan of Byzantium, the Yathrib of the early Arab traditions, now honoured as El Medina, the City of Cities.
G E von Grunebaum says
Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabian foundation created around a sanctuary
What was the name given by Ptolemy for "Mecca" ?
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What was the name given by Ptolemy for "Mecca" ?
May be it was skipped from Raavi's mind.
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Rajah, can I see your sources please? I see citations but no references? I'd love to read them.