Kaaba again - destroy idols
-
Peace all,
I posted this a while back and it seems like a good time to post it again.
Any person who claims to be a submitter while he/she is a disbeliever, idolater or rejecter becomes a hypocrite. Many people who are not believers/submitters call themselves believers/submitters and deceive others. These are the hypocrites. The God says the following about them
29 They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing.
4142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving themThe God says He will protect the muslims and mumins from the hypocrites, and tells us how to deal with them
864 And if they wish to deceive you, then God is sufficient for you. He is the One who supported you with His victory and with the believers.
3349 And do not obey the rejecters and the hypocrites, and ignore their insults, and put your trust in God; God suffices as an advocate.The hypocrites will not be able to survive for long
3361 If the hypocrites, and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread lies in the city do not refrain, then We will let you overpower them, then they will not be able to remain as your neighbours except for a short while.
The God tells us how we can recognize the hypocrites. Following are the criteria by which we can identify them
3168 And to let those who are hypocrites know, that they were told "Come fight in the cause of God or defend," they said "If we knew how to fight we would have followed you." They are closer to disbelief then they are to belief. They say with their mouths what is not in their hearts, and God is aware of what they conceal.
461 And if they are told "Come to what God has sent down and to the messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you strongly.
4142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they attend to the contact-method, they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not remember God except very little.
968 The hypocrite men and women, they are to each other. They order evil and deter from good, and they close their hands. They forgot God, so He forgot them; the hypocrites are the wicked.
632 When the hypocrites come to you they Say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
638 They are the ones who Say "Do not spend on those who are with the messenger of God, unless they abandon him!" And to God belongs the treasures of the heavens and the Earth, but the hypocrites do not comprehend.
Based on the above criteria, the hypocrites can be identified easily and even if they call themselves muslims/mumins they will not be able to fool anyone.
-
Peace
See, this last post is precisely making my point. This attachment to a cubic stone structure is leading some to call others names, and the worse name of all in Islam, hypocrite!
Really if this love for a cubic stone is making you so extreme in your discourse, you might be careful with being brandished an idolater.
Read the Quran better, especially the section where Allah tells some of Mohammed (pbuh) contemporaries that if they consider the watering of the Masjid AlHaram more important than Belief in Allah and His Prophet, then they are surely very misled.
Brothers, let us have some perspective here...
Salam
Noble -
TAnveer
29 They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing.
4142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving themThe God says He will protect the muslims and mumins from the hypocrites, and tells us how to deal with them
So you mean to say from last 1400 years the only MUSLIM AND MUMINS are AYMAN AND DESCIPLES. Strange very strange.
Not from an intelligent fellow like you, just because if some one does not agree with your' s or Aymans argument on logical and reasoanble grounds you call him or her hippocrite, I am not believing this! -
Its always dangerous and cultish when someone uses verses to justify the hypocrisy/unbelief of others......
Are all sunnis/shiahs doomeed or hypocrites tanveer?
ps; what is the difference between 'brick/idol worship' and 'book (quran/clergy/academics.) worship'? -
Peace All
Yes this is a very controversial issue... I think it also has to do with our viewing things and concepts has evolved (maybe not for the better) compared to the Prophet's folks.
For starters there is the influence of Greek Philosophy and Logic (espoused by the West) thanks to the Muslims by the way who preserved it for them...
That being said Scientific Method is a good tool to prove or disprove statements.
Archeology and Anthropology are good ones, and as I said before, if it were allowed, I am extremely curious what the digging in Makkah will show up... They will never allow it though...
What is sure is that Allah commanded the Muslims to pray towards a Qiblah (an analysis says Jerusalem, then Makkah, then Jerusalem), as evidence there are old mosques of the seventh and eighth centuries that are directed towards Jerusalem.
Since there is no clear cut names in The Quran at where the Qiblah is, and that Allah clearly states that to please the Prophet He chose for him a Qiblah that he will be happy with, it might be a matter of choice for the Muslim Community to choose their Qiblah.
Since they chose Makkah, then Makkah it is.
Still there are some rules, and among those clearing it and purifying of idols, which might include removing the black stones and destroying the Cube, the Qiblah is a location, not a building. -
Peace all,
Wow, and here I was thinking people are not paying any attention to the signs from The God ! So alhamdulillah there is still hope !
After posting The God's words over and over again and noticing some people not considering them enough proof, I decided to post the signs on hypocrisy. They were not directed at anyone specifically but meant to serve as a reminder in general and a jolt to reality, and directed at only those people who say they are "muslims" yet refuse to accept The God's signs as proofs.
Some people keep asking for proofs and when the clear proof is given to them directly from The God's words, it is not enough. I wonder why such people keep calling themselves "muslims" brickwall
-
Salam Hajir
I actually believe that you are a woman, sorry if you are not, I just found you very kind as most women are (this is from FFI not in here), anyway, yes it is hard in here due to the amount of allegations they spew, however believe me mate it is so easy to slam dunk them if you know the Quran and its language well, most in here dont even talk Arabic and just follow english translation that they feel comfy with, so take the passenger seat and watch for a while, but please step in to drive if you feel you can give me a hand or give other sincere Muslims like Ra-jah, Quraishi, and StillLearnung, (i'm sure there are more but can't recall their names), just keep in mind that they dont use haidth in here, so no hadith evidences should be used, however I agree with you heart and soul that there numerous great teachings and explanations in the hadith, what I have learnt from my internet debate that is going for at least 4 years thatsimply never use the hadith as a source of evidences in debates with Muslims or non Muslims, we can use the hadith if two Muslims just having a discussion and both of them agree about the morals and principals in the hadith as well agree that many of the hadith is corrupt
Tale care
Salam Ahmed, I am your brother in Islam. However I take it as a compliment that you found me a kind person; you should talk to my wife and convince her of this fact angel
There are five pillars to Islam and it's sad that this enemy within has started to tackle Jihad and now Hajj. Then they go out of their way to make sense of Hajj and come up with stupidest explanations that can only satisfy themselves. Here is a verse that fits them well
- When it is said to them "Believe as the others believe" They say "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
-
Salaam,
- When it is said to them "Believe as the others believe" They say "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
Beautiful verse, MashaAllah. These people are also
218 Deaf, dumb and blind of Reason! They will not return to begin their journey in the right direction.
Allah has also said about such people
822 The worst of creations in the Sight of Allah are those deaf, those dumb who do not use their intellect
May God give some wisdom to all of us.
-
Peace
For me quite the opposite, I think there is a great improvement in this Forum.
First there are not as much of these promises of hell-fire from some who do not agree with others.
Still there is still room for betterment...
So boys and girls, be nice to one another )
What we see sometimes is that there is a misconception about this forum... It is actually meant to reflect what happens in real life, with people of different opinions, interests, creeds, discussing and asking information about God Alone Quran Alone worship.
This enemy within is a laughable tirade from brothers who are frustrated that their views are not accepted.
What is worrying is that step by step this intransigence, thinking that we know it all lead to the kind of violence we see between Muslims and Muslims, Muslims and non-Muslims.
If you are so sure about your views, there is no need for spewing reams after reams of threats.
Also what do you expect, this is a web-site that do not accept the legitimacy of Hadith as being source of Law, and that The Quran is enough as it is...
What is amusing is that in the time it was revealed, the opposite was happening as people were saying The Quran was too long, and asking why the revelation was not just one sentence long, instead of one book long...
Now it seems the Muslims of the 200 years after Mohammed died decided that the Book The Quran was too short and needed many volumes of Hadith to complement it...
What you also notice is that there is an elaborate and lengthy set of excuses to justify why that is. I, for one look at it as a con, like the apologetists in Christianity justify the Trinity...
Allah's Deen is simple, but the Sectarians like to make it obscure and complex, with hundreds of rituals and practices...
The enemy within, here there is not, because this is about worshiping Allah alone using Quran alone
Mohammed is but only a Prophet, several Prophets passed out before him... If he were to be slain or killed, will you turn on your heels to your old ways? -
Peace Nabster,
Still there are some rules, and among those clearing it and purifying of idols, which might include removing the black stones and destroying the Cube, the Qiblah is a location, not a building.
An idol is something that people revere and assign to it some sort of power or make it special as far as our obligation ("deen" goes.
Per 2226, the house is a place where no partners are setup with the god (this is not a specific location).
What makes the location special? Are the rocks, dirt, water or air there somehow special or holy? Idols include special buildings or even special "locations". Focusing on a location never guided anyone. We can only focus on the truth from our Lord.
Peace,
Ayman
-
hajirfm - i don't know who you are talkin to, your brother in islam ahmedbahgat is apparently no longer with us
stupidest explanations hey? bshwfk ywm aldyn when god can judge between us - i'm sure he'll be real happy about you chopping verses and applying them willy nilly to whomever you encounter P
enjoy yourself )
-
Salam Ahmed, I am your brother in Islam. However I take it as a compliment that you found me a kind person; you should talk to my wife and convince her of this fact angel
There are five pillars to Islam and it's sad that this enemy within has started to tackle Jihad and now Hajj. Then they go out of their way to make sense of Hajj and come up with stupidest explanations that can only satisfy themselves. Here is a verse that fits them well
- When it is said to them "Believe as the others believe" They say "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
Salaam hajirfm
Referring to the verse you are quoting. Who are the "others"? How and in what do they believe according to God (not to you)?
-
Per 2226, the house is a place where no partners are setup with the god (this is not a specific location).
What makes the location special? Are the rocks, dirt, water or air there somehow special or holy? Idols include special buildings or even special "locations". Focusing on a location never guided anyone. We can only focus on the truth from our Lord.
Peace Ayman,
Do you agree with Wahhabists turning the place into a giant parking lot?
The destruction of Mecca Saudi hardliners are wiping out their own heritage
http//news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article304029.ece
-
Peace dude,
No I do not agree turning any place of archaeological / anthropological/ historical interest into a parking lot.
In this case the so-called Wahabbists are most certainly concerned about what these remains will show and that their lies be exposed...
It will be a great shame if we are denied a study of those remains...
Medinah I cannot dispute we have records of it with Mohammed implementing an Islamic State.
As for Makkah, it is far from obvious. If the place was so important why did Mohammad chose instead to live in Madinah. -
TAnveer
So you mean to say from last 1400 years the only MUSLIM AND MUMINS are AYMAN AND DESCIPLES. Strange very strange.
Hi all
Please elaborate, i quite don't get it. He never said that word for word. I mean, talk straight people. Don't go around in circles.
Peace all
-
Peace Nabster,
An idol is something that people revere and assign to it some sort of power or make it special as far as our obligation ("deen" goes.
Per 2226, the house is a place where no partners are setup with the god (this is not a specific location).
What makes the location special? Are the rocks, dirt, water or air there somehow special or holy? Idols include special buildings or even special "locations". Focusing on a location never guided anyone. We can only focus on the truth from our Lord.
Peace,
Ayman
You mentioned 2226. How do you understand 'baytee' (My house)? God refers to something as 'My house'. Also how do you understand 171. God describes Masjid Al-aqsa as 'whose precincts We did bless'. Did God bless the rocks, dirt, water or air? Also how do you understand 2012 where Moses is ordered to take off his shoes because he was in the 'sacred' valley Tuwa. What was sacred about Tuwa? The rocks, the dirt, the water or the air? How do you understand 901 and 951-3.
-
Is it possible that it was sacred because it
is a place where no partners are setup with the god
?
-
Salam
I wonder what will happen to someone who will smash to pieces the footprints of Ibrahim and shatter to bits the black stones claiming they are idols?
What do you think? And what will be the implications for the Hajj and Islam?
This question is being proposed as an exam question in an RE exam in the UK. (RE = Religious Education)Salam.
And who would dare to cause that?
Sometimes i ask myself the same question, what would happen if someone did something really awful like .... well, i don't wanna give ideas, but it would start a war, a world war, an universal war, the war that would be equal to a flood from the beginning.Peace.
-
Brother Alan
What are you on about? Of course it was destroyed several times, and we didnt notice any floods...
Come on, do you really believe that what they say are the foot-prints of Abraham are really his foot-prints?, after over maybe 10,000 years? Use your intelligence and common sense here...
Again there is no mention in the Quran that Qiblah has to have a specific structure, or that you must have Ibrahim footprints near it, or that you must cover it with a black cloth or again that you have black stones (supposedly coming from Paradise) you keep in enclosures to be kissed by people, and all the other rituals such as stoning of the devil, circumbulating seven times around it...
The only way we will ever get to the bottom of this is if we are allowed to make archaeological excavations around and in the site. Or maybe they are scared of what we will find (and they are), same as the Israelis are hiding the archeological results of what they have found in the caves of Khumran (Imran, the community of Zakariah Mary mother of Joseph)...
Now for your sake you need to be very careful as your post shows an unhealthy attachment to a place and a building that is as close to idol worship as close can be...