Translation of THUMMA
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Peace all,
This is mostly directed to all you arabic proficient people out there.
The issue is all about the translation of THUMMA in relation to some "creation verses".
- It is written in the quran (2559) that the Earth and Heavens were created in 6 days/periods.
- If you read about this in other certain verses (419-12), the count of days of creation amounts to 8 instead of 6, and this is one of the favorite things by anti-quran people, to point out in order to show that the quran contains contradictions and therefore is unreliable.
However, I heard a lecture by this guy Dr Zakir Nike from India saying that this contradiction arises when you translate all the THUMMA in those verses as THEN. He said that THUMMA can also be translated into something like SIMULTANEOUSLY or MOREOVER. This would make the two extra days (making it 8 ) a PART of the 6, and NOT 2 extra. (similar explanation here http//www.submission.org/answering-Islam.htm#confusion)
So, can someone verify this for me How many translations are there of THUMMA? Are there more meanings than THEN?
thank you
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If the word refers to periods, then clearly periods have no fixed length. If God refers to a multiple of periods, i.e. 2 periods, 6 periods, then that means 2 stages, 6 stages, etc. Nowhere does it say it has to be days - we obviously know the world is not created in days (unless Islam = Last Thursdayism?).
So God can refer to a "period" as many times as he likes, they do not have to be the same length in every verse.
Maybe someone has a better explanation...
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Peace OPF
yea, true, the yawms could be thought of as having any length... so if one yawm can be of a different length than the next yawm (it won't be very logic though!) then any number of yawms can equal any other number of yawms, just like 60 min would equal 1 hr which would render it 60 yawms = 1 yawm. I really don't believe this though. It makes no sense at all.
Actually, the issue was not about yawms and their length or even their number, but rather about thumma and this word's different meanings.thanx for the input though!
(Z)ulf
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http//www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=article&aid=65
Here you are...
Keep in mind the Quran is somewhat timeless - i.e. "a yaum that which is 1000 years of your reckoning", etc...
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peace zulf
God created heavens and earth in six days, meaning big bang , and then created earth / our solar system in two days, here is the explanation
Science says that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and that the universe is 13.5 billion years old. This places the age of Earth at one third the age of the universe (4.5 bln/13.5 bln = 1/3). . The Quran says that in God's Throne time Earth is 2 days old while the Heavens and Earth and everything in between(big bang and this universe) are 6 days old
We created the heavens and the Earth and all what's between them in six days, and We were not touched by fatigue.
25-59 He is the One who created the heavens and the earth, and everything between them, in six days, then assumed all authority. The Most Gracious; ask about Him those who are well founded in knowledge
Say "Is it that you deny Him who created the Earth in two days? And you claim others to be equal to Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds
i hope you got it now.
siki
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Siki, I would most surely be wary of that interpretation. Using "yaum" in the "period of time" sense and hence as "stages" seems a more logical explanation for two reasons.
Look at this http//www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/cutting/ageuniv.htm (maybe the people who plotted that are blind, but there isn't enough data there and it doesn't show a curve, that shows a steady increase to a sharp jump - but this is irrelevant)
People have been arbitrarily (well, not so, but in this sense, yes) declaring the age of the universe to be some random number for millenia. Just because 3*4.5 = 13.5 does not mean the Quran means that.
I think you got that from speed-light.info - I would take everything from there with a pinch of salt.
The other, is that supposing the Quran is indeed timeless, and we do not know the time it is invalid - i.e. the day of judgement, we CANNOT say that because 4.5 * 3 = 13.5, the verse refers to that specifically. For all you know, we may survive for an additional 10 billion years with ridiculously advanced technology and an insatiable thirst for resources (i.e. alien invasion!!!), and that definition would be completely invalidated - (13,5 + 10)/(4.5 + 10) = 1.62. In other words, absolute rubbish.
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Dear opf
peace brother/sister
i kinda agree with you, however at this point in time , the above mentioned explanation makes sense to me,
your critique of 10 billion years down the line is incorrect , as that statement held good at the time of its revelation(1400 years ago)
regards
siki
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But if the Quran is to be timeless, then that cannot hold!
Of course, that is pure conjecture.
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Correct, but there may be a time when the "revelation time" is forgotten P.