Was the term "daraba" sneakily turned to "beating" by hypocrites?
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Peace all,
I checked online Arabic dictionaries and found that there wer many Arabic terms which could be sued for "beating". Egs are "nbd, khfq, hzm, rd(as verbs) and "rfqat, trqa" as nouns. Taken from
http//www-old.ectaco.com/online/diction.php3?lang=3&q=1 &refid=316&rfr_id=4363344&rqt_id=21045632&pa gelang=23&word=beat&direction=1&x=44&y=17
Yes "daraba" was also included amongst the verbs BUT it could be, and according to the latestreaearch done on the Quranic context in which it uses this term, the trans "beat" does not make any sense at all. Could it be that this word NEVER meant beating/to beat, just like sallu never meant to pray or malak never meant angel or adam never meant a signle mythical first human, BUT that all this was introduced by Christians and Jews through thir Bible? Sure seems like it. Even now in Arabic countries Christians/Jews/"Muslims" use the term "sallu" as to pray/bless but does it mean tht? Once again it seems the very ones whor degrading the Quran or pting out how cruel it is seemingly themselves changed the meanings of terms. What utter hypocrisy.P.s If so we should try and BAN the term "daraba" to be sued for beatings. Its not right to pollute a language and it is dangerous as it defames the most rational scripture on earth without jusitfication.
GOD Bless!
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Peace all,
I checked online Arabic dictionaries and found that there wer many Arabic terms which could be sued for "beating". Egs are "nbd, khfq, hzm, rd(as verbs) and "rfqat, trqa" as nouns. Taken from
http//www-old.ectaco.com/online/diction.php3?lang=3&q=1 &refid=316&rfr_id=4363344&rqt_id=21045632&pa gelang=23&word=beat&direction=1&x=44&y=17
Yes "daraba" was also included amongst the verbs BUT it could be, and according to the latestreaearch done on the Quranic context in which it uses this term, the trans "beat" does not make any sense at all. Could it be that this word NEVER meant beating/to beat, just like sallu never meant to pray or malak never meant angel or adam never meant a signle mythical first human, BUT that all this was introduced by Christians and Jews through thir Bible? Sure seems like it. Even now in Arabic countries Christians/Jews/"Muslims" use the term "sallu" as to pray/bless but does it mean tht? Once again it seems the very ones whor degrading the Quran or pting out how cruel it is seemingly themselves changed the meanings of terms. What utter hypocrisy.P.s If so we should try and BAN the term "daraba" to be sued for beatings. Its not right to pollute a language and it is dangerous as it defames the most rational scripture on earth without jusitfication.
GOD Bless!
You and people like you pollute the language. The first meaning of the verb 'dha-ra-ba' is 'to beat'. Yes it can have other meanings too but this is the first meaning that any arab gets out of the verse. God is not playing games with us. If he meant it to be anything else (and what does it mean according to you?) He could easily use another verb to avoid confusion? Didn't God know that the vast majority of arabs would understand that as 'beating'? Are you saying that god was incapable of using a word that would be not be misunderstood by the majority for the past 1400 years. And then the ummah had to wait 1400 years for brilliant people like you and other confused poeple on this forum to translate the Quran for us? This forum is not even funny anymore.
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Peace "hajirfm"
You and people like you pollute the language. The first meaning of the verb 'dha-ra-ba' is 'to beat'. Yes it can have other meanings too but this is the first meaning that any arab gets out of the verse. God is not playing games with us. If he meant it to be anything else (and what does it mean according to you?) He could easily use another verb to avoid confusion? Didn't God know that the vast majority of arabs would understand that as 'beating'? Are you saying that god was incapable of using a word that would be not be misunderstood by the majority for the past 1400 years. And then the ummah had to wait 1400 years for brilliant people like you and other confused poeple on this forum to translate the Quran for us? This forum is not even funny anymore.
JK- Yes this the first meanings MODERN Arabs get out of this term because much of the Arabic langauage has been polluted by judeo-christian myths as well otherwise sallu wouldnt mean "to pray/bless". Its silly n is not what the root means. Similar is the case with daraba. GOD wants us to use the scientifc method in order to understand the Quran, not mere reliance on hearsay. If you think modern arabic would make you understand the Quran, then you must be out of your mind since even sectraian islamic "scholars" deny tht. GOD Bless!
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Hey JK if you donot mind, please read the verse, throughly not being impressed by or feeling guilty by Non-muslim propoganda
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For God is Most High, great (above you all).
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Why "lightly" in brackets? Why should I not use my GOD-GIVEN right to beat the living pulp out of my wife? How dare you intervene with the Message of God.
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I have four things that I'd like to say concerning this thread and how some people are going about it
First of all, the defintion of beating or striking Is Not the ONLY meaning given for the root word DaRaBa. I believe it says something about a person who will focus exclusively on that defintion, whether they are Muslim justifying them beating their wives or a non-Muslim sticking to that defintion to try and prove that the quran is a book of horror and crime.
Secondly, if DaRaBa had a Main meaning to focus on, I would think that it would be the defintion utilised most often in the dictionaries and lexicons of Classical Arabic. Based on my studies of DaRaBa in The Dictionary of the Holy Quran by Abdul Mannan Omar and Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon, it appears that the definitions utilized most often are leaving/journeying/quitting something or walking away from a thing AND citing parables to illustrate examples of a point of view. If you have access to them, please also see Lisan Al 'Arab and Muheet-Al-Muheet.
Thirdly, there are Other Words in Arabic which categorically mean to beat, strike, hurt, inflict pain, etc. and nothing else. There are other words in Arabic which mean these things Primarily and Most Oftenly. For example, see the root word JaLaDa (of which a derivative is used in 242).
Lastly, a book is sometimes only as good as it's reader. Whatever disposition a person has will determine HOW he understands the quran. His moral convictions will determine what he will get from it and how he will interpet it. More importantly, it will determine which definitions of any given word he will gravitate to and seek to uphold. Having said that, I wish to remind everyone of 37 and how GOD has explained this situation to us in that particular verse.
Regards,
Damon. -
'A book is only as good as its reader'.........Never have truer words been spoken........ elektro We see what we THINK we see,not always what we SHOULD see........
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Salaam all
(And last) beat them (lightly);
Why do we have this additional (lightly) when it is not there in the original verse? In fact, when this verb is used, it is demonstrated with force and mighty, and without mercy; plus it has to show what part to strike or with what, not just "strike/beat"
850 "And if you could see when the "malaa'ika" take the souls of those who disbelieved, they smite their faces and their backs..."
(same thing repeated in 4727)
812 "So strike above the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes"
47 4 "So when you meet the disbelievers smite the necks"
2793 "Then he turned upon them striking with force/the right hand"
These are all the examples in the qur'aan for this verb in the meaning the traditionalists allude to. Is God degrading women to this level? Mind you, there is no description of this husband in this verse as someone who is humble and worthy of the obedience of his wife, so it is an open licence to any husband, even a drunken, an arrogant, a schizophrenic... to smite and strike.
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hajirfm-God is not playing games with us.
JK-GOD wants us to use the scientifc method in order to understand the Quran.
hehehe....what is that verse where God says if there were more than one gods there would have been confusion.
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I have four things that I'd like to say concerning this thread and how some people are going about it
First of all, the defintion of beating or striking Is Not the ONLY meaning given for the root word DaRaBa. I believe it says something about a person who will focus exclusively on that defintion, whether they are Muslim justifying them beating their wives or a non-Muslim sticking to that defintion to try and prove that the quran is a book of horror and crime.
Secondly, if DaRaBa had a Main meaning to focus on, I would think that it would be the defintion utilised most often in the dictionaries and lexicons of Classical Arabic. Based on my studies of DaRaBa in The Dictionary of the Holy Quran by Abdul Mannan Omar and Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon, it appears that the definitions utilized most often are leaving/journeying/quitting something or walking away from a thing AND citing parables to illustrate examples of a point of view. If you have access to them, please also see Lisan Al 'Arab and Muheet-Al-Muheet.
Thirdly, there are Other Words in Arabic which categorically mean to beat, strike, hurt, inflict pain, etc. and nothing else. There are other words in Arabic which mean these things Primarily and Most Oftenly. For example, see the root word JaLaDa (of which a derivative is used in 242).
Lastly, a book is sometimes only as good as it's reader. Whatever disposition a person has will determine HOW he understands the quran. His moral convictions will determine what he will get from it and how he will interpet it. More importantly, it will determine which definitions of any given word he will gravitate to and seek to uphold. Having said that, I wish to remind everyone of 37 and how GOD has explained this situation to us in that particular verse.
Regards,
Damon.Is Quran a clear book or not? If it is a clear book then why an arab speaker has to consult a dictionary to know what a very ordinary and popular word like 'dha-ra-ba' means in the Quran? Why didn't god also send down a dictionary with Quran because if you send a code to me without the key I wouldn't be ablet o read it and your message is not complete.
You people claim to be smart and following logic and reason but you are only following your conjectures. Your faith is weak and you can't accept what God has sent down so clearly. So you have started to misinterpret what Quran says to satisfy yourselves. You only fool yourselves. This is what the jews and christians did and you are following their footprints.
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so if it came right down to it you would be ok with your sister's husband striking her?
Your logic is amazing. So if something doesn't feel good to you, you reject it? What if your brother commits murder and he has to face the death penalty? Are you going to be against death penalty? You can't negate god's laws based on your feelings. If my sister's husband beats her, it will hurt my feelings but if that's going to save their marriage then be it. He has no right to beat her for just any reason. There must be a reason that is meaningful and defendable and secondly the beating can't be too harsh as all of scholars of Islam have established it shouldn't leave any marks. Finally if my sister thinks her husband is not being fair and goes beyond the limit and beats her for no reason then we go to the next level which is assigning referees from both families. And if that doesn't work then god has allowed divorce to take place after all these steps are taken.
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Is Quran a clear book or not? If it is a clear book then why an arab speaker has to consult a dictionary to know what a very ordinary and popular word like 'dha-ra-ba' means in the Quran?
Almost any word has more than a meaning. The choice of the right meaning, even if it is not the "popular" clarifies the sentence. The ability to choose the right meaning has to do with logic and reasoning, not just the knowledge of the different meanings/aka usage of a dictionary. A legal document may contain very ordinary words, but if you think that they have the ordinary meaning, the sentence will be meaningless. Legal dictionaries do not just contain technical terms. They also contain very ordinary words where a remote meaning is always used. This is a legal verse. Every word should be scrutinised, otherwise the whole verse will have many holes, and will call for adding words to twist it towards a specific meaning.
Now, let's rephrase this verse applying "ordinary" meanings
All men are guardians over all women, because God gave some men strength and money (ability to spend). The women who are God fearing keep the secret, those whom you fear to be disobedient preach them, desert them in bed and beat them. if they obey you, seek no more annoyance.
The flows in this understanding
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How can any man be the guardian of any woman, irrespective of whether he is a believer or not (the verse speaks of all men and all women)?
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What about the other "some" who were not priviledged with strength nor money? Are they also gurdians?
- If yes, what is the use of mentioning these privileges in connection with gaurdianship?
- If no, this contradicts the main statement (All men are guardians over all women
This is just to show the flows in taking words at their very popular meaning from the very beginning of the verse.
Let's solve this and see who is gurdian over whom, maybe we wont need to look up a dictionary for the remaing part!!
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peace samia
your above post is disappointing. Anyway , could you come up with a better meaning of the word , which fits in the context?
siki
Why were you disppointed? Can you elaborate?
I was responding to the principle of "ordinary words" and why we should use a dictionary for them. And I am giving an example of another "ordinary" word which, if used with its "ordinary" meaning" will throw us, from the beginning of the verse, into a contradiction. In my understanding, this word, and not "daraba" is the main problem.
Besides, I see that Damon gave all the other meanings of the word "daraba" from the dictionary, and which fit better in this context; and in my previous post, I gave all the occurances of the word "daraba" in the qur'aan. If you have more to say about this word, please do.
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Peace,
I thought that we had already concluded years ago that Daraba does not mean "to beat" in the context of 434. To seperate or to leave would seem to be the more appropriate.
I'm studying Classical Arabic at the university level and I can assure you most linguists are in agreement with this explanation. Modern day Arabs do not speak the language spoken in the Qur'an.