Natural disasters
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if God got involved personally in everybody's lives it would defeat the purpose of US living this life and if he gets involved in one person's life then he must get involved in everybody else's life, which again defeats the purpose of us living the life
exactly.
And please remind me why god is testing innocent children and babies with suffering,death and disease ?
ps; who is running the world,god or 'nature'?children that suffer are not being tested. adults are. mainly the ones who can help.
God created nature to work a certain way, He doesn't have to change it just because some humans are a bit uncomfortable.
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Why do the children suffer then if they are not being tested?
The buck stops with god,he designed the laws so he 'knew' the consequences.....
I think religion dents the humanity of some people.......
ps; i dont need any god to hold my hand,especially a non-existant one,half the world gets on with life with no belief and they dont need holding hands either.....The ones who believe are no beter off,and on many occasions much worse off due to their supernaural assumptions on life. -
Why do the children suffer then if they are not being tested?
AGAIN do only children suffer on a daily basis? why are the children you only care about? i love children too and hope no harm is done to them either but you are picking and choosing
in order for their to be good there has to be evil, if everything is as rosy as you hope there wouldn't be any 'good' because everything would be 'good'
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Im saying children so you cant counter with 'oh they must have lived a life against gods rules'.....Obviously all people can suffer,and their suffering is not to be discounted either.....
who says there has to be great evil for their to be good to appreciate? What about a milder contrast? Cant god do that? Is his contrast the most efficient he can muster? -
Obviously all people can suffer,and their suffering is not to be discounted either
sure... but you specifically pointed just their suffering to make a point, thats not being objective
well you are saying God doesnt exist, so if he doesnt exist 'nature' isn't really working out is it?
who says there has to be great evil for their to be good to appreciate?
imagine if there was no evil to begin with ...all you know is good... you couldn't appreciate good because thats all you knew
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Salam,
Natural disasters are mainly a consequence of human actions (e.g. global warming). Sure, God knows about it and can stop it if He wants to, but humans must see what damage they're doing mustn't they?
And not everyone dies when a disaster happens. Some migrate, some suffer, some die! some turn to God! It is up to God. No one dies before his/her time.
You?ve seen the examples of recent diseases like Sars and bird flu! Mad cow disease happened because humans fed the cows pellets with meat in them??? So, it is all human?s fault (and Satan?s).
If you think God does bad things to people, then you don?t know God. God is most merciful. He tests us to see our faith and steadfastness! If you thank Him regardless of everything and believe that everything in life is prewritten and you maintain strong faith and steadfastness then you have no problems.
God wants some these things to happen so people can wake up to themselves and submit to Him and stop worshipping their egos or money etc. Other times God shows you people in worse situations that you, so you can think about your blessings and thank Him. And God will also see your reactions to these situations! Do you donate? Do you help?
We have examples in the Quran of Messengers suffering from disbelievers and from God testing their faith. Did they curse or become disbelievers? No, they didn?t. They maintained faith and steadfastness until God saved them. Put God in your heart and just do the best you can. Things that are out of your control you should submit to God and trust Him (that?s why you?re Muslim). God can do anything and everything.
Salam. peace
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Why does an all-merciful/powerful God allow natural disasters to occur (please don?t say it is divine retribution or a test coz that is not a satisfactory answer).
Since god created the earth, don't ya think he did a pretty bad job on it? >Salam.
Dear sister, why do you think disasters are happening in Los Angeles (mudslides), Africa (poverty and hunger and diseases), ...?
I mean, how come not in Europe?
Maybe because Los Angeles needs to be cleaned so that new people can come and pray ONLY to The GOD instead to a USD?
Now, i don't know why would The GOD allow those kids in Africa to die of hunger and allow my countrimen in Slovenia to throw food into garbage cans but i'm sure of this there is a good reason for it and i guess we'll have to wait for Judgment Day to find out. Some will suffer then, some will smile.Peace.
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Natural disasters are mainly a consequence of human actions (e.g. global warming). Sure, God knows about it and can stop it if He wants to, but humans must see what damage they're doing mustn't they?
'peace4life', I'd be hardpressed to believe that natural disasters such as tsunamis, hurricanes, avalanches, thunderstorms, etc., are fashioned by humans. These are forces of nature.
God wants some these things to happen so people can wake up to themselves and submit to Him and stop worshipping their egos or money etc. Other times God shows you people in worse situations that you, so you can think about your blessings and thank Him. And God will also see your reactions to these situations! Do you donate? Do you help?
Sometimes "blessings" become nightmares!!!
We have examples in the Quran of Messengers suffering from disbelievers and from God testing their faith. Did they curse or become disbelievers? No, they didn?t. They maintained faith and steadfastness until God saved them. Put God in your heart and just do the best you can. Things that are out of your control you should submit to God and trust Him (that?s why you?re Muslim). God can do anything and everything.
I believe that sufferings from disbelievers is an overstatement. Disasters arising from human intervention, innovation, neglet or misuse are not natural per se, and can be controlled.
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Peace Genteel, all,
Disasters arising from human intervention, innovation, neglet or misuse are not natural per se, and can be controlled.
Interesting, I was thinking about this just yesterday and arrived at a different viewpoint, atleast for the moment. Hear me out...humans, coming from nature, are thus "natural". Hence, all that intervention and stuff is part of the natural world. Even things that we call "synthetic", are not really synthetic because humans have never created anything from scratch.
If animals could think like us (not saying that they can't), would they be saying "look at these un-natural creatures destroying our earth", or would they say, "look at the way nature is changing via human beings?"
Peace,
Tay -
Dear Tay,
Interesting, I was thinking about this just yesterday and arrived at a different viewpoint, atleast for the moment. Hear me out...humans, coming from nature, are thus "natural". Hence, all that intervention and stuff is part of the natural world. Even things that we call "synthetic", are not really synthetic because humans have never created anything from scratch.
Your point is well taken and while I certainly concede that humans are ?natural?, my views are rather bent towards the very fact of being what is natural and unnatural in an elusive or better put, capturing the terms. What I mean by natural is what exists and happens without any interferences or innovations by humans themselves and vice versa. In other words, externalities whence nature takes its own course, such as forces of nature (tsunamis, earthquakes, thunderstorms, etc.) including but not limited to gravitational pull, age, time, death, natural formations and so forth as given, that are beyond human?s control and are not human interventions nor innovations.
If I understood you correctly, you are saying that everything is directly or indirectly in relations to all that exists, thereby whatever human intervention or innovation is a part of nature, am I right?
If animals could think like us (not saying that they can't), would they be saying "look at these un-natural creatures destroying our earth", or would they say, "look at the way nature is changing via human beings?"
I honestly can't speak for the animals but I wish I could understand them, like in the case of "Dr. DoLittle".
Peace!
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Peace Genteel,
Your point is well taken and while I certainly concede that humans are ?natural?, my views are rather bent towards the very fact of being what is natural and unnatural in an elusive or better put, capturing the terms. What I mean by natural is what exists and happens without any interferences or innovations by humans themselves and vice versa. In other words, externalities whence nature takes its own course, such as forces of nature (tsunamis, earthquakes, thunderstorms, etc.) including but not limited to gravitational pull, age, time, death, natural formations and so forth as given, that are beyond human?s control and are not human interventions nor innovations.
I'm with you. I was just throwing it out there to see where it went.
If I understood you correctly, you are saying that everything is directly or indirectly in relations to all that exists, thereby whatever human intervention or innovation is a part of nature, am I right?
Yes and no. We (humans) find ourselves in the very unique position of being self-aware, in that, we know we're a part of the natural world, and we understand that the natural world works harmoniously, yet we have the choice to either jump in line with nature or completely obliterate it. So, yes, we are "natural", but we have the ability to self-destruct and effect the entire mechanism.
That brings to mind the many qur'anic references to seeing the signs in nature. Isn't harmony and balance the key, afterall?
I honestly can't speak for the animals but I wish I could understand them, like in the case of "Dr. DoLittle".
That makes 2 of us
Peace,
Tayp.s. I saw a roadkill today - thought it was an opossum or groundhog. But no, it was a red fox! In NJ! I knew they were here I just never saw one in the wild. I was delighted and sad at the same time.
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Peace Genteel,
I'm with you. I was just throwing it out there to see where it went.
Hmmm, for a minute I thought you were sweating me out but now that I'm relaxed to tie in. )
Yes and no. We (humans) find ourselves in the very unique position of being self-aware, in that, we know we're a part of the natural world, and we understand that the natural world works harmoniously, yet we have the choice to either jump in line with nature or completely obliterate it. So, yes, we are "natural", but we have the ability to self-destruct and effect the entire mechanism.
Certainly I agree with you that humans are species of our natural world, just like any another living creature. But can humans or any other living creature control "natural phenomenon", such as the forces of nature? If humans built homes and manufactured bombs, would you call it "natural" without intervention or innovation?
p.s. I saw a roadkill today - thought it was an opossum or groundhog. But no, it was a red fox! In NJ! I knew they were here I just never saw one in the wild. I was delighted and sad at the same time.
I've seen possums in my backyard as close as 3 feet. Groundhogs, red foxes, bears and large cats only in zoos but heard in news their traveling vacations in suburban and hilly inhabited areas, ready to devour humans and some of their livestocks for meals. We humans must be zesty for them. eat
peace
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Peace Genteel,
But can humans or any other living creature control "natural phenomenon", such as the forces of nature?
Control? I doubt. But manipulate? I think, if not already, then certainly soon enough. I recall reading somewhere about some treaty between the US and some other superpower that included an agreement "not to manipulate the weather against each other". There was speculation (and still is) that US scientists drop certain chemicals into clouds to trigger thunderstorms. It's really not that far-fetch since once we figure out how something works, it's not too long before we can duplicate it. I think the success rate of triggering lightning at the research centers is something like 70%.
If humans built homes and manufactured bombs, would you call it "natural" without intervention or innovation?
That's the thing, really. I mean where do we draw the line as to what's a natural innovation and what's not? Ravens have been known to carry walnuts up to power lines, drop them in front of cars, wait for the cars to drive over them and crush the shell, and then merrily fly down to reap the rewards.
I've seen possums in my backyard as close as 3 feet.
Yuck!! I hate those bastards. Plus, they can't see all that well. I was out in my yard one night and this one opposum was headed straight for me. I had to stomp real hard on the ground to make him aware that I was there. They got nasty fangs and a nasty "don't-come-near-me-because-I'm-dead-and-decomposing" aroma, if you get too close.
Groundhogs, red foxes, bears and large cats only in zoos but heard in news their traveling vacations in suburban and hilly inhabited areas, ready to devour humans and some of their livestocks for meals. We humans must be zesty for them.
I saw a bear last year. That was amazing. I have a groundhog in living underneath my backyard. He's pretty cool. We play poker sometimes ;D But I never heard of any cats round my neck of the woods. A few years back some dude living a few blocks from my house had his pet seized. Apparently, he went to a flea market in PA and picked up a "kitten" which turned out to be a cougar cub. Yeah, 150lbs later and people weren't too thrilled about it - although he swore it got along well with his kids. Go figure.
Peace,
Tay -
Hi Tay,
Control? I doubt. But manipulate? I think, if not already, then certainly soon enough. I recall reading somewhere about some treaty between the US and some other superpower that included an agreement "not to manipulate the weather against each other". There was speculation (and still is) that US scientists drop certain chemicals into clouds to trigger thunderstorms. It's really not that far-fetch since once we figure out how something works, it's not too long before we can duplicate it. I think the success rate of triggering lightning at the research centers is something like 70%.
but why would anybody want to do that?
I remember those conspiracy theories were people were claiming that America caused the tsunami by putting a bomb in the ocean.
They seem to far-fetched coz there is not logical reason to why anybody would want to do that.
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Peace Angel,
but why would anybody want to do that?
The same reason people make bombs that can level entire cities. It used to be because nations wanted any and all advantages possible over their "enemies". Nowadays, I'm afraid, it's all about keeping the military industrial complex alive and kicking.
I remember those conspiracy theories were people were claiming that America caused the tsunami by putting a bomb in the ocean. They seem to far-fetched coz there is not logical reason to why anybody would want to do that.
I never heard that. But, I wouldn't put it past any world leader.
Peace,
Tay -
Agree with tay on the fact that humans are a part of nature and not really synthetic, we are the only species that can work with or against the environment with some degree of foresight,effect and technology. How can one really say that humans are the only ones out of harmony with the rest of nature? I mean a dog that humps your leg,or a lion that kills defenseless wildebeest young,are they in touch with harmony,gods laws and peace?
'Nature' is just indifferent to us humans in some ways,and nature doesnt claim to be representing our best interests or be all/merciful or some such thing.
My post highlighting the plight of children and babies suffering is showing that 'god' is seemingly letting these things happen and not intervening in many cases,which doesnt exactly show him in a merciful and/or all-powerful light....
I dont think you need to go through tremendous life threatening adversity or death/suffering to learn about life,you can learn through mild adversity,intellect and the experiences of others.....And im yet to understand what the babies and youngsters learn from these trials in which they as the younger and weaker are the main sufferers... -
Enquirer, it depends on what you percieve God as. Presumably, you would think that God is some dude in the sky who acts and reacts as he sees fit. But clearly the view is more pantheistic than anything, because God does not manifest himself in the way you expect - as a humanlike entity.
Personally, I find nothing wrong with a pantheistic view, because if God is all-powerful, there should be no such problem. In other words, what we percieve as "God" might not be "God" but his effects & creation, in a manner similar to Abraham declaring the sun, then the moon must be God. We can't really talk about the unseen, just follow the wisdom therein.
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Peace enquirer, all,
Eq, I think your point is well-made and I agree with you in a sense. If we perceive God as an interfering or meddling creator (read miracles), then your point about justice and mercy is well-served. To save even one person from harm and not anyone else is unjust and unmerciful.
It is my understanding that the mercy of God and his justice is to be found, not delivered. In other words, it's always there for anyone to grab hold of at any point in their lives. Free-will is a big deal. It's not about simply making little choices regarding everyday occurrences such as whether or not to eat pork. Free-will is massive, governing the entirety of mankind, from the beginning, and until the end. We are at this point in life because of choices we've made as a species.
Can disease be wiped out?
Can famine be eliminated?
Can wealth be dispersed evenly?
Can education be equal across the board?Go back far enough and you'll find that we caused what we are, and we can fix it if we choose.
Peace,
Tay -
Easy Tay. I concur partly. However,the problems we have as a society now mainly come from our inexperience of how to run a society,we are still learning this,though have come an awful long way in some quarters. I dont believe man is wholly responsible as regards social inequality,and we might not have the means/power to achieve total social equality either. Many of the reasons the earth/humans suffer at present are beyond fixing by human intervention,just as 100 years ago we couldnt sew limbs back on.....Some of our problems are related to us appearing in an environment which was present before us,we didnt choose earth to live on with all its positive points and negative points for supporting life... Humans evolve,learn and progress,and i hope we will address these inequalities as soon and as best as we can,within our limitations and our human nature....
Finally,i suggest that 'god' like the term 'society' is in fact not a 'real' entity but an umbrella term for all the myriad forces/laws that exist,this is why its misleading and contradictory to say god knows all or is all-powerful....Yes all the forces combined are all-powerful when taken metaphorically,but in reality they are not one distinct force,nor do they act or even 'think' as one force....This i believe is the fatal flaw of monotheism,and the fatal reason for me not seeing any proof for this one god....
ps; when we say society say such and such,is there a real single distinct seperate entity called 'society' saying something or is it the interaction of a myriad though finite number of the members of this society making a statement?