classic (literal ) translation of 2:31

unknownuser

Peace,

Ahmed Baghet please try to contain your ignorant words and dissaproving attitude of me to yourself. I've talked to you personally and I know where you stand, and how you would like to avenge yourself for me making you feel like you don't know Arabic. But please try to keep these personal feelings of yours to yourself.

Hello

What do you want me to do, approve your non sense that your promote using Allah words?, on the other hand I have never spoken to your personally, I don't know you actually, if you mean some PMs, again that is not personally, sounds like you have a problem not with Arabic

I have no personal feeling to you because as I said I dont know who your are nor you have done anyting bad to me personally , I only attack the non sense you do by manipulating the Arabic words in the Quran, Itaqqi Allah man and don't mislead others, don't you fear Allah that He will held you accountable lying about Him?

Here is what you said a while back, sounds like you got yourself red handed by telling me to keep my critics to myself

As for Layth, Ahmed Baghat and Ayman I hate to sound to critical but I have to say 'Shame on you.' You guys, if you went to religious schools, were more exposed to this and you chose to reject Cl. Arabic grammar altogether, putting yourself on shaky ground knowledge-wise, rather than challenge what they taught you with better scholarship. And showing them that they have not been fully following the scholarship that they claim to be lords over.

Godbless again,
Anwar

Mazhar

"And he taught Adam (as) the names of all things". What is the state of the mind of a human being at the time of his creation? "It is He Who brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers when ye knew nothing about any thing (shai) (ref 167. Shai (thing is one which has dimensions). Adam a.s. was also created so his condition was not different from any human being created after him. He was to be taught. Knowledge begins with the knowing of the names (codification) of things. Nothing can be stored in the memory until and unless we know or give it an "ism" i.e. name or code. After telling names of things to Adam, those things were placed before the eyes of Malaika and they were asked to name them, if they were true in their comment about Adam being granted freedom of action on earth. Their answer was "We don't have the knowledge(Ilm) about these things". Seeing a thing does not become knowledge if someone does not know its "ism" name. Knowledge means to know the name of a thing and its visual dimensions, storage in the memory which enables a man to distinguish between two things and then retrieving data from memory to narrate (Bayan, Tazkira) it.
Quran e Majeed is very elaborate on "Epistemology". Inshalla, there will be a book titled "Takhyul and Taffakar" shortly on site www.haqeeqat.org.pk and also a book "Adam aur Iblees-All time classic"

ansi

peace to all,

can i safely refer to the meaning as God taught Adam the names of the angels and asked the angels what their names were. they could not reply and He asked Adam to. Adam Named Them. To that God orderd them to subject themselves to man. This is to show us the superlativity of man over all creation. that is, not only can man Reason , but he has the capacity to name things distinctly, thereby being the repository of Knowledge . ( LAQAD HALAQANAL INSAN FI AHSAN TAQWEEM)

progod

Peace,

Maybe you have a point, ansi. I usually don't like to see man as superior to anything else (different but not superior) (I'll have to give some Quranic verses to show that). However, in the end we WERE of the best constitution, however we have to prove our loyalty to God in this life to gain back our permanent graces with Him.

Godbless,
Anwar

progod

Peace,

In addition I'd like to point the Quranic usage of banee Isra'eel and Isra'eel as the same thing. 393. I am point to this so that in addition to other clues in the Quran we can see that Adam is to banoo adam as Isra'eel is to banoo isra'eel. Humanity is Adam.

was gleening through Taajul&aroos the other day (someone else's copy that I could not borrow and I came across khalfun as 'shay'un aw shakhsun laa khaira feehi' that is Something that has no good in it, i.e. corrupt or a corruption. I will see if I can borrow this book from another source (I would really like to buy it) and get back to you on this similar meaning in the veb. Despite my ability to not double check taaj al-&aroos and lisaanul-Arab I reviewed the online version of lane. You can find the following entries for khalafa and khalufa under

http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000429.pdf

Quote
He became altered for the worse and corrupt

It was or became different from or contrary to what it was throught to be.

(speaking of milk and wine)
It was or became althered for the worse in taste, or in odor, it became bad after being long kept, what was good thereof became mixeed with other milk, it was, or became sour.

(for wine) it became bad.

It became altered in odor.

He was or became altered (for the worse) from the natural disposition of his father (khalafa &an abeehi)

(Khalufa)He became bad or corrupt.

He (a man) was or became stupid, or foolish or one who had little or no intellect or understanding or unprofitable or a frequent promise-breaker.

I think this is enough to justify khaleefat as corrupt. As fa&eel/fa&eelat is to fa&ala. As far as it being feminine this can be an instense (as khaleefat is an intense of khaleef even in its meaning of successor) or it can refer to the feminine reference to groups of people. This can be seen in the Quran 2113 Qaalatil-yahoodu and qaalatinasaaraa. For intance Israel can be refered to as huwa, hum or heya, and naasun can be referred to as heya or hum.

Godbless,
Anwar

Mazhar

?Yes I think it can be and should be understood as God taught Adam the names of all of them (the angels). If I find an example of angels as haa in the quran (which I'm sure i've seen before I'll let you know and post it here)? {Brother propgod}.

We may refer to the words of Allah to be little more careful

Wa ja'alul mala_ ikatal lazina hum iba_dur rahma_ni ina_tsa_ asyahidu_ halqahum satuktabu saha_datuhum wa yus alu_n
And they make the angels into females who are the Ibad of Ar Rehman. Did they witness their creation? Their evidence will be recorded and they will be called to account! {Ref 4319}

progod

Peace,

Bro Mazhar. To consider al-malaa'ikat feminine you would have to say 'hunna' not 'haa.' In classical Arabic haa can serve as a plural for people, and plural femine and masculine objects or ideas. For instance the plura of dhaahirat (phenonoma) dhawaahir or dhaahiraat would be refered to has haaa. Even amti&ah from mataa& (masculine) would be referred to as 'haa.' If the plural is referred to as hunna it is definitely saying that the singular is feminine but if it refers to it as haa that does not mean that the singular is feminine.
Samawaat you will find as hunna and haa. Although samaa' can be masculine or feminine. Thank you though for the good research.

Godbless,
Anwar

Mazhar

Thanks brother Anwar for explaining things for my benefit.
I have understood that ?Haa? can reflect plural for people {i.e. combination of male and female} and also for objects/ideas {combination of masculine and feminine} and have also now seen in Quran Majeed {3636;4312}.
But can Haa be used as plural exclusively for a group of males, since Allah doesn?t like considering Malaika as feminine? And if Haa is to be used as plural for people, isn?t it necessary that immediately before it there be a mention of both male and female people/objects as is the case in the aforesaid ayat, like azwaaj. I also saw that Haa has been used as plural in 2056 but it is exclusively for our ?Ayaat?.

If you advise that it is necessary that ?haa? should be preceded by group of both, then in the ayah there is mention only of Malaika and then after some time regarding their presentation the word used is ?arazaHUM?.
Are ?Kulla? included all malaika only, reflected by ?Haa? or we may take it as Allah taught the names of ?All malaika and all other things? or restrict ourselves to literal meanings "God taught Adam the names, all of them"

progod

"God taught Adam the names, all of them"

What God taught can be 'all the names' with no specification or kullahaa can specify the names of the angels. If malak is masculine or neutral then the plural is either hum or haa. It can be both. The passage doesn't say specifically 'the name of all things' or 'the name of all the angels.' But seeing Kullahaa as referring to the angels is a possiblity while 'all things' is nowhere in the passage. Just like naas can be referred to as feminine and hum in the same passage 'see 2113.' It is a choice that makes no difference, you can keep in in the plural or switch to make it feminine.

Godbless,
Anwar

Mazhar

I usually don't like to see man as superior to anything else (different but not superior)
(I'll have to give some Quranic verses to show that). However, in the end we WERE of the best constitution, however we have to prove our loyalty to God in this life to gain back our permanent graces with Him.{Brother Anwar}

Allah had directed Malaika BEFORE the creation of Adam (a..s.) to pay respects to him when he is created
Wa iz qa_la rabbuka lil mala_'ikati inni kha_liqum basyaram
?Behold! thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create Bashr?{Ref 1528}
Iz qa_la rab buka lilmala_ ikati in ni kha_liqun basyaram min tin {Ref 387}
?Behold! thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create Bashr from clay?

This is conveying an information. He then directed
Fa iza_ saw waituhu_ wa nafaktu fihi mir ru_hi faqau_ lahu_ sa_jidin
Fa iza_ saw waituhu_ wa nafaktu fihi mir ru_hi faqau_ lahu_ sa_jidin
And When I have fashioned this Bashr in due proportion and blown into him from My spirit, for that reason you shall pay him respects" {Identical 1529; 3872}

It is evident that respects were to be paid to Adam and NOT to Bashr. And it has been explained in simple terms
Wa iz qulna_ lil mala_'ikatis judu_ lia_dama
And behold We said to the angels "Bow down (Pay respects)to Adam";{Similar words 234;711;1761;1850;2016}

There is no respect for statutes of clay etc even if one is made with the hands of Allah and introduced with the name of ?Bashr?. Allah had directed for paying respects to Adam.

Then there is question/answer with Iblees. Adam didn?t receive respects from Iblees. Iblees?s point of view/contention was

qa_la ana khairum minh(u), khalaqtani min na_riw wa khalaqtahu_ min tin(in).{712}
He said "I am better than that because you created me from fire and him from clay."
Qa_la lam akul li'asjuda li basyarin khalaqtahu_ min salsa_lim min hama'im masnu_n(in).
(Iblis) said "I am not one to pay respects to Bashr whom thou created from sounding clay" {Ref 1533}
qa_la a'asjudu liman khalaqta tina_(n).
he said "Shall I bow down to one whom you created from clay?"
Qa_la ara'aitaka ha_zal lazi karramta 'alayya {Ref 1761,62}
He said "Seest Thou? This is the one whom you have honored (Karramta)above me!
Let us feel and consider our self the honoured ones. Wa laqad karramna_ bani a_dama ?And indeed We have honored the Bani Adam?{Ref 1770}.
It is for us to retain that position by acting in the manner advised by Allah or go to that position worst of creatures in the consideration of Allah. It is now our choice. Allah?s intention is to glorify us.
All praise is for Allah.

progod

Peace,

In my opinion, al-bashar, adam and even al-waraa are all names for Humanity. Adaam is a proper name for al-bashar/al-Insaan/al-ins and al-waraa (which is not in the Quran).

And so banoo adami just refers to Aadamu just as banoo isra'eela refers to isra'eelu.

I considered this at one time as well. But although we are in clay right now, al-insaan, al-bashar or Aaadamu is more than this clay and will exist after this clay. So whether the angels were told to pay respects when we were physical or before we were physical makes no difference. You are confusing the issue of bowing in devotion to physical statues with paying respects to real beings (which even the stars and sun can do as Joseph's dream shows us God bless him and keep him). When Joseph's parents sajadoo to him they may have been prostrating or they may just have been paying respects without prostrating. In Africa in some Muslim regions (the hausa) people still physically bow down (prostrate) to the king. They are just paying respects, this does not mean that they view him as God.(although I don't agree kingship). It is the Muslim view that we shall not bow to anyone who is not God as a symbolic gesture, but this is an empty gesture if we serve anything or devote ourselves to anything in a way that we are only to serve God and devote ourselvs to Him.

Godbless,
Anwar

Iyyaka

please can any one who understand Arabic explain the literal translation of WA allama adama asama...2;31.

I refer you to the link below on the influence of certain Jewish traditions in circulation (oral and/or written?) at the time of the prophet Muhammad (pbsl).
Note influence does not necessarily mean "copy and paste".

For the verse (231 and the following ones which are linked to it) which is the subject of this topic, I refer you to page 42-43 of the pdf or to the chapter "the fall of satan" of this book
http//www.dominiopublico.gov.br/download/texto/gu001493.pdf

God bless you.