Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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Raj-ah, again, what do you make of this
009.107
YUSUFALI And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.
PICKTHAL And as for those who chose a place of worship out of opposition and disbelief, and in order to cause dissent among the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His messenger aforetime, they will surely swear We purposed naught save good. Allah beareth witness that they verily are liars.
SHAKIR And those who built a masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Messenger before; and they will certainly swear We did not desire aught but good; and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.009.108
YUSUFALI Never stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure.
PICKTHAL Never stand (to pray) there. A place of worship which was found upon duty (to Allah) from the first day is more worthy that thou shouldst stand (to pray) therein, wherein are men who love to purify themselves. Allah loveth the purifiers.
SHAKIR Never stand in it; certainly a masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it; in it are men who love that they should be purified; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.009.109
YUSUFALI Which then is best? - he that layeth his foundation on piety to Allah and His good pleasure? - or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? and it doth crumble to pieces with him, into the fire of Hell. And Allah guideth not people that do wrong.
PICKTHAL Is he who founded his building upon duty to Allah and His good pleasure better; or he who founded his building on the brink of a crumbling, overhanging precipice so that it toppled with him into the fire of hell? Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR Is he, therefore, better who lays his foundation on fear of Allah and (His) good pleasure, or he who lays his foundation on the edge of a cracking hollowed bank, so it broke down with him into the fire of hell; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.009.110
YUSUFALI The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
PICKTHAL The building which they built will never cease to be a misgiving in their hearts unless their hearts be torn to pieces. Allah is Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR The building which they have built will ever continue to be a source of disquiet in their hearts, except that their hearts get cut into pieces; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.009.111
YUSUFALI Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise) they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded that is the achievement supreme.
PICKTHAL Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.
SHAKIR Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.Now fit this above context into the verse below and it makes a lot of sense - Abraham raised the foundations of Islam, piety, the fath with a prayer.
002.125
YUSUFALI Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
PICKTHAL And when We made the House (at Makka) a resort for mankind and sanctuary, (saying) Take as your place of worship the place where Abraham stood (to pray). And We imposed a duty upon Abraham and Ishmael, (saying) Purify My house for those who go around and those who meditate therein and those who bow down and prostrate themselves (in worship).
SHAKIR And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.002.126
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"
PICKTHAL And when Abraham prayed My Lord! Make this a region of security and bestow upon its people fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day, He answered As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey's end!
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim said My Lord, make it a secure town and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the last day. He said And whoever disbelieves, I will grant him enjoyment for a short while, then I will drive him to the chastisement of the fire; and it is an evil destination.002.127
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer) "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
PICKTHAL And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed) Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing002.128
YUSUFALI "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL Our Lord! And make us submissive unto Thee and of our seed a nation submissive unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful.
SHAKIR Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.Now, consider the context of the verse - who it's addressing
002.122
YUSUFALI O Children of Israel! call to mind the special favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message).
PICKTHAL O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures.
SHAKIR O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations.Do Jews and Christians run around a black cube and kiss stones in Mecca?
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Warner
A sample article from the ?Encyclopaedia of the Qurn? at Brill Online. The article deals with some important aspects of the modern day hajj and its contradictions. Find the article at http//www.brillonline.nl/public/pilgrimage#content#content
The article, Normative Communitas and the Struggle for Religious Legitimacy in Pilgrimages to the Second Temple by Dr. Jackie Feldman on the ancient Jewish pilgrimage to the Temple brings out many similarities to the Hajj in the Quraan and the ancient Jewish pilgrimage.Find the full article at the following link
www.netours.com/jrs/2003/forum/off-track/pilgrimage-2nd-Temple1.htm
REJECTED! on the basis of your following quotes
Warner
Since Britannica says Mecca is Bakkah, it has to be. Great argument. Why don?t you forward the Quraan to these world bodies and get their opinion that it is Gods words. Look up in Britannica for Abraham, Jesus, crucifixion and other numerous issues and you will know how good their research is. Britannica even gives you the place of Jesus? crucifixion. Britannica is not a research organization to verify scientific and archeological facts. Your blind following of books other than the Quraan has made you believe in Britannica without question. It is sad you chose Britannica to explain the Quran.
I do not dilute what I study in the Book of Allah with man made books and fabrications
For those who are blind and led astray by the shaitan they can not see or understand the book of Allah. They will defend their falsehood using Britannica or any source. And devil will help them and protect their sources and Allah will protect His message.
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Salaam Rajah
I have not given the links of two articles as evidence or in support of any view or argument and the articles are not quoted to interpret the Quraan.
They are only to read and gain knowledge. The article from "Encyclopedia of the Quran" raises many credible contradiction on the sunni pilgrimage which proves the sunni bilgrimage
is trash just like trash you raise in your posts. -
Warner
They are only to read and gain knowledge. The article from "Encyclopedia of the Quran" raises many credible contradiction on the sunni pilgrimage which proves the sunni bilgrimage
is trash just like trash you raise in your posts.Warner
For those who are blind and led astray by the shaitan they can not see or understand the book of Allah. They will defend their falsehood using Britannica or any source. And devil will help them and protect their sources and Allah will protect His message
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl brickwall brickwall elektro
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Dear OPF
the verses you just brought as a proof for your argument or aymans argument are actually telling another story. One of the problem with Quran Alone persons is that they pick up some verses and start building whole building of ideas on it, without studying the Quran as a whole.
The verses are from Surah "Toaba" the surah talks about City "MADINA" therefore it is certain that the SUrah was revealed in MAdina and not at MAkkah. The Surah is talking about Mushrakeens, Munafeqeens, and Kuffar. In this Surah I have seen the anger of Allah displayed not like in any other Surah. Actually Allah is showing his anger over some who did not accompanied Muhammad on a War, Physically and Financially, (This further confirms that this Surah is revealed in Madina as there was no war before migrating), and those who have built a Mosque in Madina, but there are minds are not yet Muslim, they are actually inclined towards Shirk.
The connection you are trying to built between these ayats and the "Bayt" in Makkah is not there.Let us see
And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.So some people build a mosque in Madina but their intentions are not good,
a) they want to disunite the Believers
See how Allah looks at some who is trying to disunite Muslims? What about those who say Build where ever you want;ANYWHERE further disuniting Muslims.
b) they want to use that very Mosque, as a conspiracy place for some one who has warred against Allah and his Messanger afore time.
Here Allah is telling Prophet to take caution against these Munafeqeens.Never stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and God loveth those who make themselves pure
a) Allah warns the Prophet not to satnd in that Mosque which is built in Madina becuase of following
i) It is to disunite Muslims
ii) It will be used as conspiracy against the Prophet and Allah
iii) Infidelity
b) Instead Allah tells that the A masjid that is established on the basis of righteousness from the first day is more worthy of your praying therein. In it, there are people who love to be purified. GOD loves those who purify themselves.
If we look within the context of whole Surah; I think Allah is refering to Masjid-i-Nabvi here which is in Madina, which is established from the first day on the basis of righteosness.Which then is best? - he that layeth his foundation on piety to God and His good pleasure? - or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? and it doth crumble to pieces with him, into the fire of Hell. And God guideth not people that do wrong.
Allah tells us that the Masjid built by Prophet is best, when both are compared.
What important here is that Allah compares two "Mosques", and not "Bayt" with Mosque.Try to read it with this point of view.
Hope You will understand; nice try though.
Therefore these Ayats in have nothing to do with the "Bayt" located in Makkah.Do Jews and Christians run around a black cube and kiss stones in Mecca?
I have discussed this in detail in previous posts.
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From my meager knowledge of Arabic, I can at least know that Al-Madinah can also be "The City", literally. Now, Madinah was changed to the name "Madinah" in 630 (if we trust the Islamic sources, which I don't but playing devils advocate...) - http//lexicorient.com/e.o/madina.htm. The name only was changed from Yathrib or Lathrippa at that time. Prior to that, "Medinatun Nabi" was the nickname for it. How can you actually say that "The Quran is referring to a nickname of a city the prophet is residing in" when there is already a widely established common noun in place? Where else in the Quran does God suddenly directly reference a city? I see tribes like Sodom being referred to, but their cities? No.
Now, using common sense
009.101
YUSUFALI Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk they are obstinate in hypocrisy thou knowest them not We know them twice shall We punish them and in addition shall they be sent to a grievous penalty.The verse is quite clear. It's a contrast between the desert Arabs in the... desert, and the desert Arabs in the city. Why change the meaning of "medina" from "city" to "Medina", something that according to Islamic history happened in the last 2 years of the prophet's death? According to Islamic history, in this period, he was supposed to be lying at home in bed ailing from a Jewish woman's cursed sheep. Now, that's what I call commandeering an army.
So some people build a mosque in Madina but their intentions are not good,
a) they want to disunite the Believers
See how Allah looks at some who is trying to disunite Muslims? What about those who say Build where ever you want;ANYWHERE further disuniting Muslims.
b) they want to use that very Mosque, as a conspiracy place for some one who has warred against Allah and his Messanger afore time.
Here Allah is telling Prophet to take caution against these Munafeqeens.When you build a physical house, that automatically creates a rift between those who wish to take the verses at face value, and those who wish to take the verses according to hadith. If you don't, this verse simply becomes an example, or a parable. If you do, it's effectively an executive order - do not stand in that mosque.
Onto the next part - 9109. I'm not sure what verse you are reading, but that verse is comparing foundations, not mosques. It is contrasting a mental/spiritual foundation to a physical foundation, albeit a shaky one. Last I checked, my house's foundations are of bricks and mortar - not "piety". If my house was built on "piety", I would be killed by "gravity". This of course, clicks neatly into place when we observe that Abraham rased the foundations of this house mentally - with a prayer.
002.126
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"
PICKTHAL And when Abraham prayed My Lord! Make this a region of security and bestow upon its people fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day, He answered As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey's end!
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim said My Lord, make it a secure town and provide its people with fruits, such of them as believe in Allah and the last day. He said And whoever disbelieves, I will grant him enjoyment for a short while, then I will drive him to the chastisement of the fire; and it is an evil destination.002.127
YUSUFALI And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer) "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
PICKTHAL And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed) Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing002.128
YUSUFALI "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL Our Lord! And make us submissive unto Thee and of our seed a nation submissive unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful.
SHAKIR Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.Click, click, click. Foundations raised, from what? Piety.
Try to read it with this point of view.
Oh, I have, and I did, until I realised it was based on foundations on an undermined sand-cliff, ready to crumble to pieces. It almost crumbled into peces taking me down with it, but I was guided )
And of course, the verses have nothing to do with Makka - you are 100% correct on there. The verses address any medina, any city )
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...... Where else in the Quran does God suddenly directly reference a city? I see tribes like Sodom being referred to, but their cities? No.
I can understand what you are saying, but that is expected from those who realy donot study history, or REad Quran verse by verse through root method.
Ignorance is no excuse I think.Al-Quran
Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with Ad, (The people of) Iruma, possessors of lofty buildingsI just do not want to be hard on you, but please take care when you assert some thing from Quran.
SAMIA
Salaam Rajah
Do you know of any mosque built in "Medina" during the life of the Prophet other than his mosque?
I was missing you. Thanks for posting.
Yes! at least two
One the Mosque Zarar, which is talked about in the verse and Mosque Qubaa.
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SAMIA
I was missing you. Thanks for posting.Yes! at least two
One the Mosque Zarar, which is talked about in the verse and Mosque Qubaa.
I am flattered
What mosque "qubba"? Is it also mentioned in the qur'aan?
How do you know about them? It seems that I am quite ignorant about some "facts". I mean, I honestly never heard of them before. Blame it again on our education system ;D -
Samia
What mosque "qubba"? Is it also mentioned in the qur'aan?
How do you know about them? It seems that I am quite ignorant about some "facts". I mean, I honestly never heard of them before. Blame it again on our education systemI can understand the taunt hidden in your post! but that is OK, as you are Quran "ALONE".
See dear
Quran does not mention NEw York, neither Green Land, Nor Argentina
It also doesnot mention Mount Everest, it does not mention Mount Fuji
Quran doesnot mention Caleopetra, and many others by nameQuran doesnot mention many things which are in fact there, but they actually exist.
Why we call the Cults narrow minded ? this is the prime reason.You like many ignorants of Quran Alone sect think that "Allah" shared with some Arabs of the Muhammad's time a consipiracy against "Allah".
"Allah" by purpose used the words/names "MakKATA" "MAdina" "Arafat" "Mazdalfah" "SAfa" "MArwa" "Ummahtul Wst" "ze zarh" and many others on purpose so that the later Arabs can build a whole new "BAYT" and Religon of their own basing on these hints provided.
Now offcourse it is not impossible to bring these kind of thinkers back to Islam but you can see how difficult it is.
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Salaam Rajah
My statements you quoted are not mutually exclusive. Also you can add the following statement to the list
?I thank Allah for giving me the strength to make sincere effort to choose fact from fiction, truth from false hood and also I thank my Lord for giving me the strength to be strong enough to question hearsay and established ideas and practices and not to follow them blindly even though the majority supports it.?
C?mon Rajah, this is unforgivably stupid even by your standards. You have not answered any of my questions in all the previous posts but you have started making faces at me as a last resort.
About reading other literature on a subject specifically on the Quran I do oppose that someone should not read or gain knowledge from other sources. I reject when someone tries to establish an explanation on the Quraan based purely on an outside source. For instance when you say Mecca is Bakka since according to Britannica it is such. God does not rely on Britannica to explain what He did not explain in His book.
I have not used the articles I posted as a support for any view. The articles raise questions and highlights contradictions.
I suggest you answer the contradiction highlighted by me and in the articles without being evasive.
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Samia
I can understand the taunt hidden in your post! but that is OK, as you are Quran "ALONE".See dear
Quran does not mention NEw York, neither Green Land, Nor Argentina
It also doesnot mention Mount Everest, it does not mention Mount Fuji
Quran doesnot mention Caleopetra, and many others by nameQuran doesnot mention many things which are in fact there, but they actually exist.
Why we call the Cults narrow minded ? this is the prime reason.Even though I said honestly I never heard of them?
With the anology you draw for this mosque and the three above examples, I understand that it is eiter actually there so I may visit it and see it, or there is archeological evidence that proves its existence; did I correctly understand you?You like many ignorants of Quran Alone sect think that "Allah" shared with some Arabs of the Muhammad's time a consipiracy against "Allah".
How is this related to my question? And what does it mean anyway?
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I can understand what you are saying, but that is expected from those who realy donot study history, or REad Quran verse by verse through root method.
Ignorance is no excuse I think.Al-Quran
Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with Ad, (The people of) Iruma, possessors of lofty buildingsI just do not want to be hard on you, but please take care when you assert some thing from Quran.
Thanks, I actually just googled "Iram" and found this
Studies since the early 1990's, mainly led by Juris Zarins, the archeologist that was part of Clapp's original team, indicate that Ubar refers to a region and a group of people, not to a specific town. Ptolomy's second century map of the area clearly labels "Iobaritae". There was a tribal group of people, the Iobaritae or the Ubarites, who lived in the area, and the Shisur site is one of probably three or four major centers from that period. Whether it is Ubar or not is irrelevant from that perspective as it was clearly a key site along the incense caravan route at the edge of the great Empty Quarter.
So any other direct references to cities?
Allah-ho Akbar! )
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"Allah" by purpose used the words/names "MakKATA" "MAdina" "Arafat" "Mazdalfah" "SAfa" "MArwa" "Ummahtul Wst" "ze zarh" and many others on purpose so that the later Arabs can build a whole new "BAYT" and Religon of their own basing on these hints provided.
Allah commanded "A NEW RELIGION" built by THE ARABS for THE ARABS????
The Quran disagree with you brother..
"He decreed for you the same religion (ArabicDien) decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Jesus and Moses You shall uphold this religion (ArabicDien) do not divide it."
4213Although you do admit that this BAYT and rituals are "A NEW RELIGION BUILT BY THE ARABS".
I am becoming more convince and seeing more and more evidence of the truthfulness of this verse
The Arabs (al-arabu) are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent upon His messenger
997Salam
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OPF
Thanks, I actually just googled "Iram" and found this
Quote from http//home.hetnet.nl/~lilian_jan_schreurs/oman/Ubar.htm
Studies since the early 1990's, mainly led by Juris Zarins, the archeologist that was part of Clapp's original team, indicate that Ubar refers to a region and a group of people, not to a specific town. Ptolomy's second century map of the area clearly labels "Iobaritae". There was a tribal group of people, the Iobaritae or the Ubarites, who lived in the area, and the Shisur site is one of probably three or four major centers from that period. Whether it is Ubar or not is irrelevant from that perspective as it was clearly a key site along the incense caravan route at the edge of the great Empty Quarter.So any other direct references to cities?
Before I give you any other refrences, let us see what are the sources of Dr.JZ
Following is the actual interviewNOVA Are you still confident that you found Ubar?
JZ There's a lot of confusion about that word. If you look at the classical texts and the Arab historical sources, Ubar refers to a region and a group of people, not to a specific town
OPF don'y be Childish! do you actually understand what above paragraph is saying?
Do you started believing in Arab historical sources, If Yes? then Thanks Allah the Puzzle is solved, The Bayt in MAkkah is the real BAYT. Case Closed.
But if NO? thenThe Qur'an says that Irum was a city inhabited by the tribe of 'Ad. Arabic tradition holds that the tribe of 'Ad were the great-grandchildren of Noah; the Quran, however, does not maintain this. It was a rich and decadent city, filled with wicked people who dabbled in the occult
Have you noted what your Lord did to `?d?
The people are Ad
Of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillarsQuran clearly tells us thatfrom the city/place of Irum
The like of which were not created in the (other) cities
who built buildings as no where else.
Example
The Americans of New York, build buildings like no other city has ever build.This means Americans are group of people and the city/place where they build these buildings is New York.
Please see this detailed article about the city from National Geographic Magazine, which says that the name of the city was mentioned in inscriptions.
So even if Ubar is the name of region/city/place where buildings were built, Quran exactly mentions that Name.
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Well, what was it that proved this city to be the city of the people of ?Ad mentioned in the Qur?an?
Right from the moment remains started to be unearthed, it was understood that this ruined city belonged to ?Ad and of Iram?s pillars mentioned in the Qur?an, because among the structures unearthed were the towers particularly referred to in the Qur?an. A member of the research team leading the excavation, Dr. Zarins, said that since the towers were alleged to be the distinctive feature of Ubar, and since Iram was mentioned as having towers or pillars, this then was the strongest proof so far that the site they had unearthed was Iram, the city of ?Ad described in the Qur?an. The Qur?an mentions Iram as follows;
Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the 'Ad (people),-
Of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillars,
The like of which were not produced in (all) the land? (Surat al-Fajr -
OPF
Before I give you any other refrences, let us see what are the sources of Dr.JZ
Following is the actual interviewNOVA Are you still confident that you found Ubar?
JZ There's a lot of confusion about that word. If you look at the classical texts and the Arab historical sources, Ubar refers to a region and a group of people, not to a specific town
OPF don'y be Childish! do you actually understand what above paragraph is saying?
Do you started believing in Arab historical sources, If Yes? then Thanks Allah the Puzzle is solved, The Bayt in MAkkah is the real BAYT. Case Closed.
But if NO? thenThe Qur'an says that Irum was a city inhabited by the tribe of 'Ad. Arabic tradition holds that the tribe of 'Ad were the great-grandchildren of Noah; the Quran, however, does not maintain this. It was a rich and decadent city, filled with wicked people who dabbled in the occult
Have you noted what your Lord did to `d?
The people are Ad
Of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillarsQuran clearly tells us thatfrom the city/place of Irum
The like of which were not created in the (other) cities
who built buildings as no where else.
Example
The Americans of New York, build buildings like no other city has ever build.This means Americans are group of people and the city/place where they build these buildings is New York.
Please see this detailed article about the city from National Geographic Magazine, which says that the name of the city was mentioned in inscriptions.
So even if Ubar is the name of region/city/place where buildings were built, Quran exactly mentions that Name.
The first fallacy is assuming that "classical Arab historical sources" and "classical texts" are the same "classical Arab historical sources" and "classical texts" that define Makka to be the house of Allah. Now, "Classical Arab historical sources" is evidently a physical construct, because unless the author was poorly versed in English, that's the only thing it can mean when contrasted with "classical texts".
The second fallacy is assuming I disregard "classical texts" wholesale - I don't. You have the wrong person. It's true that I disregard certain unreliable, word-of-mouth "classical texts", however.
The third fallacy is writing your own source. In this case, you cite the Quran, and conveniently place in brackets "(city of)". No, that doesn't work. Unless the verse specifically says "city of", you, or any "prominent scholar" have no authority to place "city of" in brackets. Don't write God's book with your own hands.
Anyway, enough diiversion from the original argument.
The predominant Sunni school of thought is that it's better to be safe than sorry. For instance, we go from "forbidden to you is adultery" to "When a man and woman are together alone, the third with them is Shaitan" (I seem to remember some story about Aisha being alone and a great scandal, according to "classical texts", care to reflect on that?), and "A woman wearing perfume is a whore".
Hence, God telling us "A foundation of piety is better than a foundation of crumbly sand" (NOTE THE CONTRAST BETWEEN PHYSICAL AND MENTAL/SPIRITUAL), can therefore, with the same logic, translate to "Mecca is a city of evil, stand not therein, it is better that you pay pilgrimage to a house of which the foundations are based on piety".
Even without the "classical text" thought, that would still stand because of the contrast between physical and spiritual made quite clearly in that verse.
The 'Ad did not die simply from the collapse of a water source
051.039
YUSUFALI But (Pharaoh) turned back with his Chiefs, and said, "A sorcerer, or one possessed!"
PICKTHAL But he withdrew (confiding) in his might, and said A wizard or a madman.
SHAKIR But he turned away with his forces and said A magician or a mad man.051.040
YUSUFALI So We took him and his forces, and threw them into the sea; and his was the blame.
PICKTHAL So We seized him and his hosts and flung them in the sea, for he was reprobate.
SHAKIR So We seized him and his hosts and hurled them into the sea and he was blamable.051.041
YUSUFALI And in the 'Ad (people) (was another Sign) Behold, We sent against them the devastating Wind
PICKTHAL And in (the tribe of) A'ad (there is a portent) when we sent the fatal wind against them.
SHAKIR And in Ad When We sent upon them the destructive wind.051.042
YUSUFALI It left nothing whatever that it came up against, but reduced it to ruin and rottenness.
PICKTHAL It spared naught that it reached, but made it (all) as dust.
SHAKIR It did not leave aught on which it blew, but it made it like ashes.051.043
YUSUFALI And in the Thamud (was another Sign) Behold, they were told, "Enjoy (your brief day) for a little while!"
PICKTHAL And in (the tribe of) Thamud (there is a portent) when it was told them Take your ease awhile.
SHAKIR And in Samood When it was said to them Enjoy yourselves for a while.051.044
YUSUFALI But they insolently defied the Command of their Lord So the stunning noise (of an earthquake) seized them, even while they were looking on.
PICKTHAL But they rebelled against their Lord's decree, and so the thunderbolt overtook them even while they gazed;
SHAKIR But they revolted against the commandment of their Lord, so the rumbling overtook them while they saw.051.045
YUSUFALI Then they could not even stand (on their feet), nor could they help themselves.
PICKTHAL And they were unable to rise up, nor could they help themselves.
SHAKIR So they were not able to rise up, nor could they defend themselves-Physics question for you, Rajah. Can a house built on mud withstand 500kmh winds and still stay standing? Or to rephrase, do the mud huts in the satellite pictures look as if they've been slapped around by hurricane force winds, or do they look as if they've been left to rot for several thousand years, similarly to the Greek cities?
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Salaam Rajah
My statements you quoted are not mutually exclusive. Also you can add the following statement to the list
?I thank Allah for giving me the strength to make sincere effort to choose fact from fiction, truth from false hood and also I thank my Lord for giving me the strength to be strong enough to question hearsay and established ideas and practices and not to follow them blindly even though the majority supports it.?
This statement is much better and rational then your previous statements. Even though you donot seem to follow what you just said.
C?mon Rajah, this is unforgivably stupid even by your standards. You have not answered any of my questions in all the previous posts but you have started making faces at me as a last resort.
Before you call any one stupid just take a look at yourself first! It is hard to digest when a person who has posted most irrational and substandard posts when compared with others calls anyone stupid. Last resort? what the hell you are talking about?
About reading other literature on a subject specifically on the Quran I do oppose that someone should not read or gain knowledge from other sources. I reject when someone tries to establish an explanation on the Quraan based purely on an outside source. For instance when you say Mecca is Bakka since according to Britannica it is such. God does not rely on Britannica to explain what He did not explain in His book.
Now this is stupidity
I never said that Mecca is Becca because Britannica said it, I quoted a reference, about which you said the followingWarner
Quote
For those who are blind and led astray by the shaitan they can not see or understand the book of Allah. They will defend their falsehood using Britannica or any source. And devil will help them and protect their sources and Allah will protect His messageAnd you are not even ashamed of it.
I have not used the articles I posted as a support for any view. The articles raise questions and highlights contradictions.
Whenever you quote an article, reference which supports your view, it means automatically that supports your view. Don't try to play.
I suggest you answer the contradiction highlighted by me and in the articles without being evasive.
Yes! I will try to.
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Samia
Even though I said honestly I never heard of them?
With the anology you draw for this mosque and the three above examples, I understand that it is eiter actually there so I may visit it and see it, or there is archeological evidence that proves its existence; did I correctly understand you?Well; i felt that some one knowldge able like you cannot be unaware of these two mosques I mentioned.
Mosque Quba is still there
It was built When the Prophet emigrated to Medina, he first landed at BaniAmr binAwf and stayed in Quba for three days. So he built a mosque there, hence the first mosque built in Medina.
The distance from the Prophet`s Mosque to Quba Mosque (Masjid Qubaa) is 3.25 Kilometers.
You can visit it any time.The second Mosque we are talking about which is been mentioned in the above verses was widely known as Mosque of Hypocrites and was destroyed by prophet.
Verses 107-110 refer to a mosque which had been constructed by some members of the Banu Ghanam tribe. It was alleged that rather than using this mosque for Islam, these men were using it as a sort of speak-easy where they conspired against Muhammad.Quote
You like many ignorants of Quran Alone sect think that "Allah" shared with some Arabs of the Muhammad's time a consipiracy against "Allah".How is this related to my question? And what does it mean anyway?