Who are the true believers? please vote.Thanks.
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Salaam Lobster,
And I agree with mz, serving god is all about bringing it's attributes to this world. Anyone who is kind, generous, merciful, even for a moment, is truly god's servant for that moment.
I disagree with what you said above, I believe in the following verse;
GOD does not hold you responsible for the mere utterance of oaths; He holds you responsible for your innermost intentions. GOD is Forgiver, Clement.
So if the intentions were in your above scenario it is in the cause of Jesus or Muhammad then that person is not God's servent. And one can tell what ones intentions are using our minds, eyses and verifying what one is doing;
Crucial Advice
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
Kind Regards
Ijaz
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Salaams Ijaz,
Such is GOD's guidance, with which He guides whomever He chooses from among His servants. Had any of them fallen into idolatry, their works would have been nullified.
689 is talking about the prophets , wouldn?t that be slightly different for a layman. Especially if the layman does it as a mere lip service.
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YUSUFALI And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias all in the ranks of the righteous
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YUSUFALI And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot and to all We gave favour above the nations
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YUSUFALI (To them) and to their fathers, and progeny and brethren We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.
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YUSUFALI This is the guidance of Allah He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His servents. If they were to join other gods with Him, all that they did would be vain for them.
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YUSUFALI These were the men to whom We gave the Book, and authority, and prophethood if these (their descendants) reject them, Behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.I think only thing we see different in our understanding is you call Abd worship , but to me there is no such suggestion in the quran, it is giving of services to things around us.
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peace Ijaz,
Yes, whatever we do has to be with the right intention. We have to believe in those attributes.
The thing is, doing something thinking "I am doing this for god" is not enough, not even right, because you don't know what god is. What you think god is could be different from reality.We have to understand what "one god" actually means. Obviously, there are billions who think they are following one god but they don't even know what that "god" is, and there is no evidence at all for that god that they follow.
We know what's right and wrong. We do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because of Jesus or Muhammad or God.
ANd I don't think we can or even should guess someone's intentions.
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i am very impressed with lobster's comments in this post, he has improved significantly since last year when i used to post regularly on this site
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Salaam,
I would say that the true believers are truly consistent for what they believe, what they do, and go forth and establish betterment towards this world betterment towards themselves and others, not only that but also the true believers hang on and know the necessary ingredient to survive poisonous atmospheres and hope from bitterness for the well being, benefit for mankind.
from my definition, the true believers are the Nobel prize winners, each and every one of them, i don't think none of them were fake.
those are recognized true believers. Although there are plenty unrecognized true believers in this world those who we don't immediately see with our eyes. I bet the Koran talks about them as being "helping us from behind", i am pretty sure the Koran talks about behind the scenes true action for benefit/truth.
what i posted is a secular definition, plagiarized from Alfred Nobel's will. this has nothing to do with religion. the Koranic definition? the answer to that...God almighty knows
Peace, Rifat
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i am very impressed with lobster's comments in this post, he has improved significantly since last year when i used to post regularly on this site
Yes he is giving good sound direction to us- and i am sure it will help us all in our search for the correct understandings of what to follow, it is all so simple if people give it a few moments to understand- i think.
Would be interesting to know what lobster was called previously though and whether it is a new understanding of his.
As time is a healer but also a teacher for the wise.
God Bless Rifat.
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Salaam mz,
Salaams Ijaz,
Such is GOD's guidance, with which He guides whomever He chooses from among His servants. Had any of them fallen into idolatry, their works would have been nullified.
689 is talking about the prophets , wouldn?t that be slightly different for a layman. Especially if the layman does it as a mere lip service.
Brother there is no difference between prophet and believer as far as God's tests are involved, both are judged by the same rules, prophets and messengers set examples for the believers..
However, when one idol worship then you nullify your work, besides the verse I showed you earlier there are many more which say the same including for a lay man;
Oppression Condemned
They ask you about the Sacred Months and fighting therein say, "Fighting therein is a sacrilege. However, repelling from the path of GOD and disbelieving in Him and in the sanctity of the Sacred Masjid, and evicting its people, are greater sacrileges in the sight of GOD. Oppression is worse than murder." They will always fight you to revert you from your religion, if they can. Those among you who revert from their religion, and die as disbelievers, have nullified their works in this life and the Hereafter. These are the dwellers of Hell, wherein they abide forever.
From among their ancestors, their descendants, and their siblings, we chose many, and we guided them in a straight path.
Such is GOD's guidance, with which He guides whomever He chooses from among His servants. Had any of them fallen into idolatry, their works would have been nullified.
The idol worshipers are not to frequent the masjids of GOD, while confessing their disbelief. These have nullified their works, and they will abide forever in Hell.
Idol Worship Nullifies All Work
It has been revealed to you, and to those before you that if you ever commit idol worship, all your works will be nullified, and you will be with the losers.
I think only thing we see different in our understanding is you call Abd worship , but to me there is no such suggestion in the quran, it is giving of services to things around us.
I hope the above verses are enough evidence for you..
Regards
Ijaz
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Ijaz, I think it's obvious that if your intentions aren't right, whatever you do is nullified. If I help a poor child with the intention of turning him into a drug dealer, it wouldn't count, would it?
peacep.s. Rifat, if you wanna tell me you're impressed with me, please use PM.
Oh, and I was previously called phoenix1 (the majority of the time). I might go back to it. -
peace Ijaz,
Yes, whatever we do has to be with the right intention. We have to believe in those attributes.
The thing is, doing something thinking "I am doing this for god" is not enough, not even right, because you don't know what god is. What you think god is could be different from reality.I would be gratefull if you could prove what you said above with some quotes from Quran, because I am sure you are making it up as you go along.
Brother if you have not found God yet then probably you never will..
I can give you hundreds of examples from the Quran, which describes God's attributes, there is one verse which actualy but allegoricaly describe God, I do not understand what more you want to think what God is like..
We have to understand what "one god" actually means. Obviously, there are billions who think they are following one god but they don't even know what that "god" is, and there is no evidence at all for that god that they follow.
Brother I can assure you that I understand what one God is, because I have been following Quran Alone for over 15 years, in few words God is All the Goodness in the entire universe.
We know what's right and wrong. We do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because of Jesus or Muhammad or God.
Don't be to sure that you know what is good and what is bad, because uptill now you have been telling me bad is good and good is bad based on your posts and my replies..
I do not know what your background is but in my past I have wittnessed some thing called Khattums, which are in the cause of Muhammad, praying through Muhammad, which was plain idolworship.. I am sure there are many praying and charity sessions for Jesus..
ANd I don't think we can or even should guess someone's intentions.
I was not talking about guessing some ones intentions I was talking about distinguishing between believers and disbelievers, which Muhammad did all the time, and it is valid according to Quran..
The following are few verses which support may argument, and there are many more examples in the Quran;
What afflicted you the day the two armies clashed was in accordance with GOD's will, and to distinguish the believers. And to expose the hypocrites who were told, "Come fight in the cause of GOD, or contribute." They said, "If we knew how to fight, we would have joined you." They were closer to disbelief then than they were to belief. They uttered with their mouths what was not in their hearts. GOD knows what they conceal.
As a matter of fact, (they only say this because) their secrets have been exposed. If they go back, they will commit exactly the same crimes. They are liars.
Important Criterion
This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.
The Weak Believers
When your Lord willed that you leave your home, to fulfill a specific plan, some believers became exposed as reluctant believers.
Kind regards
Ijaz
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Salaams Br,
May be this is all humbug to you but after four years of studying the quran this is my view.
Lets start
If I was to think there is someone who shares in the authority with someone called Allah ? where is the cause in that if any and what is its effect?
NONE! - I think.
When I serve other then the attributes of Allah other then all those good actions, then indeed there is a cause and an effect which is actually opposite to the actions produced by the good action of the attributes.
Allah says be kind well try the opposite may be because of your friends doing thus ? certainly then your actions will produce a result opposite to the attribute of being kind.
And that to me is called shirk- the cause and effect become other then that of Allah- so you are serving other then Allah.
Now let?s see for what the quran is saying;
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YUSUFALI Nay, the evil results of their Deeds overtook them. And the wrong-doers of this (generation) - the evil results of their Deeds will soon overtake them (too), and they will never be able to frustrate (Our Plan)!
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YUSUFALI "Turn ye to our Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you after that ye shall not be helped.
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YUSUFALI "And follow the best of (the courses) revealed to you from your Lord, before the Penalty comes on you - of a sudden while ye perceive not!-
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YUSUFALI "Lest the soul should (then) say 'Ah! Woe is me!- In that I neglected (my duty) towards Allah, and was but among those who mocked!'-
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YUSUFALI "Or (lest) it should say 'If only Allah had guided me, I should certainly have been among the righteous!'-
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YUSUFALI "Or (lest) it should say when it (actually) sees the penalty 'If only I had another chance, I should certainly be among those who do good!'
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YUSUFALI "(The reply will be) 'Nay, but there came to thee my Signs, and thou didst reject them thou wast Haughty, and became one of those who reject faith!'"
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YUSUFALI On the Day of Judgment wilt thou see those who told lies against Allah;- their faces will be turned black; Is there not in Hell an abode for the Haughty?
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YUSUFALI But Allah will deliver the righteous to their place of salvation no evil shall touch them, nor shall they grieve.
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YUSUFALI To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth and those who reject the Signs of Allah,- it is they who will be in loss.
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YUSUFALI Say "Is it some one other than Allah that ye order me to serve, O ye ignorant ones?"039.065
YUSUFALI But it has already been revealed to thee,- as it was to those before thee,- "If thou wert to join (gods with Allah), truly fruitless will be thy work (in life), and thou wilt surely be in the ranks of those who lose (all spiritual good)".The serving or worshipping is via our actions only.
The above ayah?s are depicting those who serve Allah and those who don?t serve Allah ? via our actions only.Thanks.