Circumcision ?
-
I know what you mean.
But I am still there spreading the message of the Qur'an. I think it is important to do so, and perhaps some of them can even see the light but do not voice it, out of fear of persecution!
Well some sites are made by Sunni sectarians and therefore the environment is not supportive. It keeps going in circles. Sunni islam is dead, its just relying on the masses ignorance. Try to go to the masses. You will find them in non religious websites. Mostly ethnic websites run by Arabs, Pesians, Pakistanis, Indians or even Westerners who do not know what is Quran and what is hadith and so on. I spend time in the website perspectives.com and I have managed to stop the ranting of quite a few anti Islam posters by showing them the message of the Quran and how it differs from the Sunni interpretation.
Going to Sunni websites in my experience is limited since these guys are not the type who really care about the truth and they are sectarian and tribal. You could use that energy on someone else. They don't have to be Muslims. Maybe you can be the cause of their acceptance of Islam or at least end their distorted perception of it that Sunni Islam created.
-
Peace,
As Br Layth claimed there are no place in Quran mentioning circumcision, so why should we perform that ritual then?
But to be clean is recommended as we shall wash ourself before salat and after having sexual intercourse.
I also see the cleaness as something natural, due to that you want to make a good presence of yourself.
Most people want to smell good and then they take for granted that other people also smells good.
Maria
-
As Br Layth claimed there are no place in Quran mentioning circumcision, so why should we perform that ritual then?
Quran, being an "aged" book, is NOT the criteria to live one's life EXACTLY by its letter. One simply can't. In the case of circumcision, the practice was/is an act of pagan ritual originating from Africa and spread throughout the world, thereby performed by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Today, it is found that it is unecessary and has no substantial supporting grounds, though we do find contradicting results which are questionable.But to be clean is recommended as we shall wash ourself before salat and after having sexual intercourse.
Cleanliness as in washing, bathing, etc. is a MUST, not a recommendation, without which the effects on oneself, others and surroundings are devastating even if lapsed for several days.Peace!
-
Quran, being an "aged" book, is NOT the criteria to live one's life EXACTLY by its letter. One simply can't. In the case of circumcision, the practice was/is an act of pagan ritual originating from Africa and spread throughout the world,
Salaam Genteel
You "speak" as if the qur'aan ordained the circumcision! Otherwise, what's the point in mentioning that "Quran is an aged book Not a criterea to live ones life..."? An itching desire to criticize the quran?
-
Quran, being an "aged" book, is NOT the criteria to live one's life EXACTLY by its letter. One simply can't.
Peace!I am absolutely demolished by your irrefutable evidence. Or not, as the case may be.
006.025
YUSUFALI Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they (but) dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."
PICKTHAL Of them are some who listen unto thee, but We have placed upon their hearts veils, lest they should understand, and in their ears a deafness. If they saw every token they would not believe therein; to the point that, when they come unto thee to argue with thee, the disbelievers say This is naught else than fables of the men of old.
SHAKIR And of them is he who hearkens to you, and We have cast veils over their hearts lest they understand it and a heaviness into their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you; those who disbelieve say This is naught but the stories of the ancients. -
You "speak" as if the qur'aan ordained the circumcision!
Actually quite the opposite. Since nothing is mentioned in the Quran about circumcision, then how do you know whether this act is forbidden or not? Likewise, there are gazillion other things that the Quran does not mention, yet it suffices the standards of living.Otherwise, what's the point in mentioning that "Quran is an aged book Not a criterea to live ones life..."? An itching desire to criticize the quran?
"Criticizing the Quran" is done by every single "itching" individual on this forum, including yourself, not to mention the mockery out of it and the "God" whom no one has any idea about whatsoever. Go figure!
-
Actually quite the opposite. Since nothing is mentioned in the Quran about circumcision, then how do you know whether this act is forbidden or not?
I did not speak of "forbidden". I spoke of "ordained". Circumcision as we see, is treated as a religious oblgation. ALL muslim men are circumcised. Even converts are subjected to it, yet God did not order men, or women to do it. So we cannot blame the quraan for not forbidding it. People have brains and as the saying goes if it is working do not fix it. This does not call for a verse.
"Criticizing the Quran" is done by every single "itching" individual on this forum, including yourself
Show me where I criticized the quraan.
-
I did not speak of "forbidden". I spoke of "ordained".
Samia, I never said you did and neither you spoke of "ordained". As I questioned earlier (which you ignored) and let me paraphrase, how does one know that circumcision is right or wrong as per GOD or Quran regardless of being "ordained", "forbidden" or "NOT"?Circumcision as we see, is treated as a religious oblgation. ALL muslim men are circumcised. Even converts are subjected to it, yet God did not order men, or women to do it. So we cannot blame the quraan for not forbidding it. People have brains and as the saying goes if it is working do not fix it. This does not call for a verse.
That is exactly what I inferred and therefore my question. Besides, its not only Muslims who get circumcized and has nothing to do with God.Show me where I criticized the quraan.
Firstly, as a new moderator you mustn't bring about insulting remarks as "An itching desire to criticize the quran?" My response was in retrospect. Second, you should exercise patience, diligence and comprehension in discussing subject matters as given/conveyed, not cloud the matter with derogatory words and remaks. Third, everyone criticizes the Quran, so don't take upon yourself to outrightedly become defensive. It is all over the face of this forum where indifferences about Quran exists. Learn to be tolerant and face the facts. -
Peace all
I dont know what Quran says but here is a a medical report
Male circumcision key to slowing AIDS epidemic?
SYDNEY ? Male circumcision could prevent millions of new HIV infections a year, but it is not being made widely available because no money can be made from the procedure, a top health researcher suggested on Tuesday.
The World Health Organization has found that male circumcision reduces the risk of female-to-male transmission of the disease by around 60 percent. But only 30 percent of men worldwide have had the procedure, mostly in countries where it is common for religious or health reasons.
Robert Bailey, a professor of epidemiology at the University of Illinois, said uncircumcised men are 2-1/2 times more likely to contract the virus from female partners, based on random control trials conducted in parts of Africa hardest-hit by the epidemic.
But international agencies have been slow to implement the procedure despite mounting evidence of its efficacy in preventing new HIV infections, Bailey told a major international AIDS conference in Sydney, Australia.
?One cannot help but contemplate that if it were a drug or a compound or a shot with a label, international agencies and donors would have been fighting to be the first to make it available many months, even years, ago,? he said.
?But no one stands to profit from male circumcision ? no one but the 4,000 in Africa who will be infected tomorrow,? added Bailey, who has conducted circumcision-related studies in Uganda, Kenya, Malawi, Zambia and the United States.
Studies suggest that widespread male circumcision in sub-Saharan Africa could prevent 5.7 million new cases of the disease and 3 million deaths over 20 years.
If just 50 percent of men underwent the procedure in parts of South Africa, which has one of the world?s highest rates of HIV/AIDS infection, incidents of the disease among heterosexual men could by reduced by up to 9 percent over 10 years, Bailey said.
?In other words, circumcision could drive the epidemic to a declining state toward extinction,? Bailey said. ?We must make safe, affordable, voluntary circumcision available now.?
The World Health Organization issued a statement in March urging heterosexual men to undergo the procedure because of compelling evidence that it reduces their risk of getting the disease.
However, it cautioned that male circumcision is not a complete protection against HIV, and said men should still use condoms and take other precautions such as abstinence, delaying the start of sexual activity and reducing the number of sexual partners.
-
Peace Afridi,
I have heard of that report before but never understand why HIV(AIDS) would be less spread of males who are circumcised!?
I guess it would be better if they drink alot of colloidal silver to get rid of the virus itself ;D
Peace Majidah
-
Males are protected against AIDS by having only sex with their partner, wife, and that the wife, as by the rules of God, should not have an affair. This is how God protects us against diseases.
When looking at the statistics, circumcision has more downsides then plusses.
-
salaam,
A lot of circumcisions go wrong and cause infections. The procedure causes more harm in many cases in many countries.
-
Peace all,
Examination of scientific evidence concerning benefits versus risks and harmful effects of circumcision indicates no overall benefit of circumcision. Please read the following comprehensive scientific article while paying attention to ALL the details
http//www.infocirc.org/facts.htm
-
100% of infant circumcisions are done without the consent of the individual concerned.
No, really? brickwall brickwall brickwall
-
peace Arnold,
Having sex with only your spouse doesn't protect you from HIV.
The chances of a person getting infected increases with the number of sexual partners they have, so having only one partner means your chances are relatively low, but you can still get infected...as far as I know. -
Yeah, if the partner did not follow the rules of God and had sexual intecourse with several persons. If all sexual relationships would only be done in the bonding of marriage. Could AIDS have spread in such large numbers as it did now? The answer is a clear NO. The numbers would be really really small.
-
Peace all,
I agree with Arnold.
And the weird thing among people is that many are more afraid to get infected of the common flu and avoid to shake hands with people. But to have sex with many different partners doesn't seems to be scary enough though the majority also not using condoms to protect themselves confused.
If you are a believer in God, stay with one partner and be faithful. Non believers can do things to stop deseases like HIV to use condoms and why not put on two condoms insted of one to be on the safe side.
Majidah