For the first time a radical "islamist" says something relatively correct
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lol when i was brought up i was told to not sleep on my stomach cuz my behind is facing allah lol
The problem is when you sleep on your back.....Anyway, there is always something facing Allah!
Some tribes in the Sudan sleep liittle girls on their stomachs so that their buttocks have space to grow; and boys on their backs so that they do not grow buttocks.
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Most of these "traditions of yore" have some merit to them. The problem is not that they exist, but that they're associated with Islam.
How is Bilal Phillips a "radical extremist"?
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33.56. Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect
Blessings here is Salaat and salute is salaam. So the verse says "God and His angels send salaat on the prophet, then it says send salaat for him and make salaam to him strongly.
Here it make it clear that we are to make salaah FOR the prophet and make salaam TO the prophet.
This is the tashahud we do in salaat.
We say "Alsalaamu alika aiyuha alnabiyu wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakatahu.
Meaning "salaam to you,oh prophet, and the mercy of God and His blessing.
Anotherwords we make salaam to him the way we make salaam to each other. Its a way of saying "asalama alikum" when we meet someone. This is exactly what the verse is telling us to do. Saying peace and blessing on the prophet is not doing what the verse is saying, its merely restating a fact that the Quran says God and His angels are doing. The Quran is telling us to make salaah for him and make salaam to him.
The hadiths are not doing what the verses are telling us. This is another proof that the salaat was passed to us through sunnah since it fulfills what the Quran is saying exactly rather than what Sunnis say which "sala Allahu 'ala sayiduna Muhammad" or "sala Allahu 'alaihi wa salam". Meaning God makes salat to the prophet. Or what they also say is "'alaihi al salat wa alsalaam" meaning to him is God's salat and salaam to him". Actually the verse does not say God makes salam to the prophet. It says God and His angels make salaat ON the prophet and then tells us to make salaat FOR the prophet and to make salaam TO the prophet. Which is exactly what we do in the tashahud in the slaat where we make salam TO the prophet and then we make salaat For the prophet by asking God to do salat and blessing ON the prophet.
This is I believe because of the favor he (prophet) has done for us, like asking God for our forgiveness and spreading the message of God and being patient and sincere in the prophecy for our sake. And it is a duty for us to give him salaam as we do to the ones we love and respect when we meet them. This is a Divine request from God for us to offer the prophet salaam like we do to each other. Then the tashahud goes"
Alsalamu alaina wa rahmatuAllahi wa barakutu" meaning after we give our salaam to the prophet we give salaam to ourselves and the righteous believers among the humans and the jins.This is a proof that salaat came to us by the earlier generation and that ALL the Muslims offer salaam to the prophet EXACTLY like the verse commands us to do without us even paying attantion. We did not get this from no hadiths, the hadiths tells us something else. It tells us to repeat the verse and not to obey the verse and do what it says which is to make salaat for him and to make salaam to him.
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33.56. Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect
Blessings here is Salaat and salute is salaam. So the verse says "God and His angels send salaat on the prophet, then it says send salaat for him and make salaam to him strongly.
Here it make it clear that we are to make salaah FOR the prophet and make salaam TO the prophet.
This is the tashahud we do in salaat.
We can do it AFTER salaat. Salaat is for God only and we are ordered not to mention any name beside His name.
Sllimuu does not mean make salaam. It means "submit". Sallimuu tasliima submit absolutely TO GOD not to the prophet. How do we make salaam to the prophet when he can't hear us? God dose not "yusallim 3ala" anybody. He bestows His peace upon His messengers. He says "salaamun 3alihi ...", not "usallimu 3alaihi..I greet him" or "The Lord/God yusallimu 3alihi..greets him"
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But is this true? Similarly, one should not stand up least his spine cord falls to his lowest vertebra!
Well, I couldn't find it at time magazines website, where he said he found proof of sleeping deaths. But it sounds logical with gravity unless there is something between the organ and spinal cord.
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Well, I couldn't find it at time magazines website, where he said he found proof of sleeping deaths.
Is it the same as "cot deaths"?
Regarding cot deaths, it was first believed to be the reason, but then it was ruled out, and the reason for cot deaths is still unknown.
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Peace "Bigmo",
WRONG neither does "sallu" mean blessing nor does "saliimu tasleema" mean salam. I can even show a similar phrase in the Quran to prove my point
Never indeed, by your Lord; they are not believers unless they come to you to judge in their disputes, then find no hesitation in their hearts whatsoever in accepting your judgment. They must submit a total submission(yusalimu tsleema).
Even sunnis tranalte it "accept them with fullest conviction(yusuf ali)" so why the hypocrisy in sur 3356. Reg sallu this word has been corrupted i beleive by the Christians to mean "pray" as they use it tht way in churches whilst in classical ARabic it means "contact/be in touch with". Hence 3356 wld mean
GOD and His angels help and support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall help and support him, and submit a total submission.
GOD Bless! -
Is it the same as "cot deaths"?
Regarding cot deaths, it was first believed to be the reason, but then it was ruled out, and the reason for cot deaths is still unknown.
I thought the reason was due to being smothered? Odd.
Maybe we should have an experiment. Put people to sleep on the floor, in a large tower with an open roof and see how many die
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Most of these "traditions of yore" have some merit to them. The problem is not that they exist, but that they're associated with Islam.
How is Bilal Phillips a "radical extremist"?
Bilal Philips is a radical extremist. he praised the killers of Rashad Khalifa and even prayed that they enter paradise.
Unfortunantly many here still believe like him that Muslims are practicing shirk. And then they will translate the Quran the way they see fit to match their thinking.
So who told us to give salaam to the prophet in our prayers everyday, the Persians?
This is the problem where there can not be dialogue. Its one thing when a Muslim can discuss with another about issues, its another when one speaks as if he is a believer while the other is practicing shirk. I am afraid the same thing that happened to the wahhabis can happen to the Quranist. Extremism turns inwards.
This concept of equating tawassul with shirk has now proven to be a huge fitna for the Ummah and will bringus down. No muslims will tell you there are other gods and no Muslim builds idols yet they are still accused of shirk.
Whats scares me is that the wahhabis have manged to downgrade that word shirk that it has become so easy to accuse the Muslims of that, even though nobody in the world believes Muslims worship idols or practice shirk except the Muslims themselves. The whole world recognizes Islam is a monotheist religion, except the Muslims. So sad.
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Unfortunantly many here still believe like him that Muslims are practicing shirk. And then they will translate the Quran the way they see fit to match their thinking.
Salaam Bigmo
No one "translates" the qur'aan the way they see fit and get away with it. Not in this forum. I would rather say anyone coming up with any translation or understanding is more picked on than given a safe passage. People are learning here.
This is the problem where there can not be dialogue. Its one thing when a Muslim can discuss with another about issues, its another when one speaks as if he is a believer while the other is practicing shirk. I am afraid the same thing that happened to the wahhabis can happen to the Quranist. Extremism turns inwards.
Why are always bringing up this boogy man "wahabis" when discussing anything? Who cares what they believe? If they got it right once, should we say "Nah, the wahabis said the same thing. I better change"? You defend many things held dear by the wahabis, no one accused you of being a wahabi or a wahabi lover.
I also noticed that you hardly support your opinion with any evidence from the qur'aan, even when you start a thread like this, and were urged to discuss verses instead of just saying that they were taken out of context
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14300.0
I haven't seen you defending the idols in makkah or showing that they are ordained by Ibrahim
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14268.0
So, who is not taking their share in a dialogue? Who is preaching as the "right one" versus "pseudo wahabis"?
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Salaam Bigmo
No one "translates" the qur'aan the way they see fit and get away with it. Not in this forum. I would rather say anyone coming up with any translation or understanding is more picked on than given a safe passage. People are learning here.
Why are always bringing up this boogy man "wahabis" when discussing anything? Who cares what they believe? If they got it right once, should we say "Nah, the wahabis said the same thing. I better change"? You defend many things held dear by the wahabis, no one accused you of being a wahabi or a wahabi lover.
I also noticed that you hardly support your opinion with any evidence from the qur'aan, even when you start a thread like this, and were urged to discuss verses instead of just saying that they were taken out of context
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14300.0
I haven't seen you defending the idols in makkah or showing that they are ordained by Ibrahim
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14268.0
So, who is not taking their share in a dialogue? Who is preaching as the "right one" versus "pseudo wahabis"?
This is my point, there are no idols in Mecca. Nobody said that he visits an idol in Mecca but somehow there are some people who believe there are idols in Mecca. You asked about the wahhabi bogey man. Well other than the wahhabis who else used to say Muslims are practicing shirk?
Its the same logic, it uses similarity to associate something. Meaning the logic tries to associate a shrine with an idol or a calling out like "Oh so and so" with making dua to a god or godess. It does not look at what the accused believes or claims but it makes the claim for him. So even if the person does not say he believes in mors than one god, he is still accused of doing exactly that. It relies on a logic that has no precedent in human history. Every definition of polytheism and ecvery history of polytheism known in human history, has never defined polytheism the way that this logic does. This logic manufactured a new definition of what monotheism is. It also has a definition of polytheism unknown to human kind. It raises the question who the Quran is refering to when it addresses the polytheist. Because the polytheism this logic follows is unknown to mankind.
Never in the history of mankind did any polytheistic religions ever believed that God is the sole creator and the sole sustainer. Yet this logic has managed to do exactly that.
You also said that I do not present evidence from the Quran. I have presented many evidence from the Quran. The problem is we interpret the verses differently. While someone might interpret the Quranic verse "fully detailed" or "fully explained" to mean theological and moral and ethical issues(what we need to know), somebody else might understand it that it means to practice the deen(what we need to do).
Also while i might interpret "seeking intercession" meaning of other gods and deities, somebody else might explain meaning anything or anybody. So the best way for me to present my argument is to rely on sources outside the Quran where evidence are based on facts which can not be interpreted differently. Such as has there ever been a religion that believes in gods and believes in idols, including the pagan Arabs, that believed God is the sole creator and sustainer?
What does these verses mean
29.61. If indeed thou ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law), they will certainly reply, "(Allah)". How are they then deluded away (from the truth)?
- Allah enlarges the sustenance (which He gives) to whichever of His servants He pleases; and He (similarly) grants by (strict) measure, (as He pleases) for Allah has full knowledge of all things.
29.63. And if indeed thou ask them who it is that sends down rain from the sky, and gives life therewith to the earth after its death, they will certainly reply, "(Allah)!" Say, "Praise be to Allah." But most of them understand not.
Did the pagan Arab theology believed that God is the sole creator and sustainer? Well all we need to do is study their religion and find the answer then we can understand what these verses are saying. Because there are those hear who will say" see, the pagans believed God is the sole creator and sustainer and yet they were mushriks because they practiced tawassul and these personalities that they made tawassul to they did not believe they had any power but merely to intercede on people's behalf.
Well lets see what they believed. We can study history, we can look for archeological evidence, we can also study ancient religions and see for ourselves. Someone like me interpret this differently. i see people who knew what they were doing was wrong but they held on to it not because of faith but because of ancestorial heritage and the fear of change.
And I even showed the verses about that from Abraham's encounter with his people.
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Bilal Philips is a radical extremist. he praised the killers of Rashad Khalifa and even prayed that they enter paradise.
Unfortunantly many here still believe like him that Muslims are practicing shirk. And then they will translate the Quran the way they see fit to match their thinking.
So who told us to give salaam to the prophet in our prayers everyday, the Persians?
This is the problem where there can not be dialogue. Its one thing when a Muslim can discuss with another about issues, its another when one speaks as if he is a believer while the other is practicing shirk. I am afraid the same thing that happened to the wahhabis can happen to the Quranist. Extremism turns inwards.
This concept of equating tawassul with shirk has now proven to be a huge fitna for the Ummah and will bringus down. No muslims will tell you there are other gods and no Muslim builds idols yet they are still accused of shirk.
Whats scares me is that the wahhabis have manged to downgrade that word shirk that it has become so easy to accuse the Muslims of that, even though nobody in the world believes Muslims worship idols or practice shirk except the Muslims themselves. The whole world recognizes Islam is a monotheist religion, except the Muslims. So sad.
Interesting. I never knew about that. I've read a few books by him, that's all.
"No muslims will tell you there are other gods and no Muslim builds idols yet they are still accused of shirk."
009.031
YUSUFALI They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
PICKTHAL They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!
SHAKIR They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one Allah only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).There are many verses, but that's one off the top of my head.
"This is the problem where there can not be dialogue. Its one thing when a Muslim can discuss with another about issues, its another when one speaks as if he is a believer while the other is practicing shirk. I am afraid the same thing that happened to the wahhabis can happen to the Quranist. Extremism turns inwards."
Yes, that's a huge problem. Nowhere in the Quran does it give us authority to excommunicate anyone. However, tawassul like this lin is clearly shirk. Does the dead man hear your prayer? Can he intercede? I'm surprised you're clinging onto this, when you know full well that God is all-powerful, omni-present and all-hearing. There is no need to turn to anyone else. God does not need proxies. I would have given you a hadith that showed this example quite well if I could remember where I saw it.
"Whats scares me is that the wahhabis have manged to downgrade that word shirk that it has become so easy to accuse the Muslims of that, even though nobody in the world believes Muslims worship idols or practice shirk except the Muslims themselves. The whole world recognizes Islam is a monotheist religion, except the Muslims. So sad."
No, a few people, Christians, atheists, Jews, have observed the circumambulation of the Ka'bah to be a pagan practice.
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Interesting. I never knew about that. I've read a few books by him, that's all.
"No muslims will tell you there are other gods and no Muslim builds idols yet they are still accused of shirk."
There are many verses, but that's one off the top of my head.
"This is the problem where there can not be dialogue. Its one thing when a Muslim can discuss with another about issues, its another when one speaks as if he is a believer while the other is practicing shirk. I am afraid the same thing that happened to the wahhabis can happen to the Quranist. Extremism turns inwards."
Yes, that's a huge problem. Nowhere in the Quran does it give us authority to excommunicate anyone. However, tawassul like this lin is clearly shirk. Does the dead man hear your prayer? Can he intercede? I'm surprised you're clinging onto this, when you know full well that God is all-powerful, omni-present and all-hearing. There is no need to turn to anyone else. God does not need proxies. I would have given you a hadith that showed this example quite well if I could remember where I saw it.
"Whats scares me is that the wahhabis have manged to downgrade that word shirk that it has become so easy to accuse the Muslims of that, even though nobody in the world believes Muslims worship idols or practice shirk except the Muslims themselves. The whole world recognizes Islam is a monotheist religion, except the Muslims. So sad."
No, a few people, Christians, atheists, Jews, have observed the circumambulation of the Ka'bah to be a pagan practice.
The fact that the rotation around the ka'abah was a pagan practice is not disputed, its the shirk I am talking about.
Reza Aslan in "No god but God"
There were no priests and no pagan scriptures in pre-Islamic Arabia, but that does not mean the gods remained silent. They regularly revealed themselves through the ecstatic utterances of a group of cultic officials known as the Kahins. The Kahins were poets who functioned primarily as soothsayers and who, for a fee, would fall into a trance in which they would reveal divine messages through rhyming couplets. Poets already had an important role in pre-Islamic society as bards, tribal historians, social commentators, dispensers of moral philosophy, and, on occasion, administrators of justice. But the Kahins represented a more spiritual function of the poet. Emerging from every social and economic stratum, and including a number of women, the Kahins interpreted dreams, cleared up crimes, found lost animals, settled disputes, and expounded upon ethics. As with their Pythian counterparts at Delphi, however, the Kahins' oracles were vague and deliberately imprecise; it was the supplicant's responsibility to figure out what the gods actually meant.
Although considered the link between humanity and the divine, the Kahins did not communicate directly with the gods but rather accessed them through the Jinn and other spirits who were such an integral part of the Jahiliyyah religious experience. Even so, neither the Kahins, nor anyone else for that matter, had access to Allah. In fact, the god who had created the heavens and the earth, who had fashioned human beings in his own image, was the only god in the whole of the Hijaz not represented by an idol in the Kaaba. Although called "the King of the Gods" and "the Lord of the House," Allah was not the central deity in the Kaaba. That honor belonged to Hubal, the Syrian god who had been brought to Mecca centuries before the rise of Islam.
Despite Allah's minimal role in the religious cult of pre-Islamic Arabia, his eminent position in the Arab pantheon is a clear indication of just how far paganism in the Arabian Peninsula had evolved from its simple animistic roots. Perhaps the most striking example of this development can be seen in the processional chant that tradition claims the pilgrims sang as they approached the KaabaHere I am, O Allah, here I am.
You have no partner,
Except such a partner as you have.
You possess him and all that is his.This remarkable proclamation, with its obvious resemblance to the Muslim profession of faith-"There is no god but God"-may reveal the earliest traces in pre-Islamic Arabia of what the German philologist Max Muller termed henotheism the belief in a single High God, without necessarily rejecting the existence of other, subordinate gods. The earliest evidence of henotheism in Arabia can be traced back to a tribe called the Amir, who lived near modern-day Yemen in the second century B.C.E., and who worshipped a High God they called dhu-Samawi, "The Lord of the Heavens." While the details of the Amirs' religion have been lost to history, most scholars are convinced that by the sixth century C.E., henotheism had become the standard belief of the vast majority of sedentary Arabs, who not only accepted Allah as their High God, but insisted that he was the same god as Yahweh, the god of the Jews.
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This is my point, there are no idols in Mecca. Nobody said that he visits an idol in Mecca but somehow there are some people who believe there are idols in Mecca. You asked about the wahhabi bogey man. Well other than the wahhabis who else used to say Muslims are practicing shirk?
http//img300.imageshack.us/img300/7017/6hajraswadlc7.jpg
Isn't that an idol or something? I can't see the use of that in mecca
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It is highly beneficial to mankind.
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For a while there was discussion on the manner of sleeping. Perhaps it is indicated the best and appropriate way of lying on the bed here in this verse
003.191
YUSUFALI Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought) "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.
PICKTHAL Such as remember Allah, standing, sitting, and reclining, and consider the creation of the heavens and the earth, (and say) Our Lord! Thou createdst not this in vain. Glory be to Thee! Preserve us from the doom of Fire.
SHAKIR Those who remember Allah standing and sitting and lying on their sides and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth Our Lord! Thou hast not created this in vain! Glory be to Thee; save us then from the chastisement of the fire
Rashad Khalifa They remember Gof while standing, sitting and on their sides?.
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