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  4. how/why are classical arabic dictionaries any more reliable than the hadith ?

how/why are classical arabic dictionaries any more reliable than the hadith ?

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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jack
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    couldn't they've also forged meanings into the dictionaries?

    what do you guys think?

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    • I Offline
      I Offline
      ijaz
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Salaam DArgento,

      couldn't they've also forged meanings into the dictionaries?

      I agree on this issue, it is more likely that the dictionaries are based on there conception of Quran and the meanings of the Arabic in Quran based on Hadith.

      I would not be surprised if that is the case.

      Regards

      Ijaz

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      • J Offline
        J Offline
        Jack
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        we at least have to consider that possiblitiy, they've forged everything else just about (imho)....

        if so, how do you verify (1736) the dictionaries?

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        • S Offline
          S Offline
          Samia
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          They can forge by "adding" a meaning to fit an understanding of a vrese, word; but they can't forge a whole entry, because many other words are based on that entry/root. It is not difficult to see the forgery. For example, look up the root nuun seen khaa, and you will find

          nasakha to write a copy (to copy); istansakha in the qur'aan (we write "nastansikhu" what you were doing ) meaning the angels write it and it is kept, confirmed with God...
          then
          naskh deletion (!!) according to the verse...(Any sign do We "delete" or make forgotten, We bring a similar one or a better one) and the Arabs say the sun "nasakhat" the shadow, in other words removed the shadow and replaced it!!

          The forgery is very clear. They had to forge an example of the saying of the Arabs to confirm this lame understanding, but it turns out to be the opposite of what they mean, because the sun makes a shadow and does not remove it; moreover the shadow is a copy of the object. So (the sun nasakhat the shadow) actually means (the sun made a copy which is a shadow).

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          • J Offline
            J Offline
            Jack
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            salaam sis samia

            great post , makes sense now

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            • WakasW Offline
              WakasW Offline
              Wakas
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              In addition to what has been said AQ's usage is key in determining meanings which they cant forge.

              All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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              • Z Offline
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                Zidane
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Very interesting topic. I was having this same question in my mind since a few days ago.

                Good posts by sister Samia and brother Wakas. Probably that's why the dictionaries are more reliable than the hadith.

                In my mind, this still doesn't prove to me that it's reliable enough to put trust in, including the many versions of the Quran, translations, dictionaries

                So many facts that used to make me confused like
                -There are many versions of the Quran nowadays. For example, http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
                -The choice of meaning from each root one chooses can be different.
                -Many intepretations/understandings are made by people who know/speak Arabic.
                -Many differences in translations, sometimes totally different from each other.
                -Not everyone understands Arabic, maybe even less understand classical arabic.
                -How can I be sure that the Classical Arabic dictionaries are 100% true?
                -The "19" facts increases confidence a lot, but the test aren't 100% re-producable for us to verify, http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/19.pdf
                -etc...
                -etc...
                -etc...

                But I'm 100% sure that there's there's a Creator from seeing the laws and existence that are set all around and in ourselves, the laws that can't be broken. Consider the laws of the heavens & the earth - the orbits, the gravity, the body/family we're bound to, the fact that we must eat, the fact that true&true is true, the fact that true&false is false, etc.... These undeniable/unchoosabe laws applies to all, same law, that means the same one Creator/God.

                So, for me, these facts makes us admit to Him that we can't understand His Message if He doesn't guide us - so we humble ourselves, ask for forgiveness, ask for guidance. Then, we do our best. The God is in full control, so He knows All things - so he knows all these problems that we're encountering, let's put our trust in Him Only God is fully reliable.

                Therefore, it's not even the Quran that can give guidance, but it's only God that can. (Yes, there's probably guidance in the Quran, but only the Creater can give/allow the guidance to us).

                So, for me, best is to put trust in God alone, ask Him for guidance - God is enough for us - Not same as "Quran alone" (well stated in http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/god.htm)

                (Yes, I'm trying to follow what I understand as the (translated) creed of Abraham.)

                May God Guide.

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                • W Offline
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                  warner
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Salaam

                  An informative article on this subject The Development of Classical Arabic by Kees Versteegh. Find it in the below link

                  http//arabworld.nitle.org/texts.php?module_id=1&reading_id=17&print=1

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                  • J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jonny_k
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Peace "Dargento",
                    Many classical Arabic dictionatries like lanes are based on more unbiased and perhaps even archeological evidence. Thats why them being forged is much more unlikely. GOD Bless!

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