My Dream of Truth
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i once dreamed i was an indian man (im a girl!) being forced into a marriage with reese witherspoon! that was strange! the indian men of the village were chasing me with machetes round the forest to get me to marry her!
does that have a deep and meaningful message behind it?? lol!! -
Peace Lobster,
just one thing...god doesn't speak to us through dreams.
Quite authoritarian of you isn't it?Our dreams show us what is in our subconscious (or soul). What you saw in your dream came from inside you, not from anywhere else. The dream showed you what you already believed.
While I agree with some of your analysis, I definitely disagree that "God doesn't speak to us through dreams.-
God shows them to you as being few in your dream, and had He shown them to be many, then you would have failed and you would have disputed in the matter; it was God who saved you. He is the Knower of what is inside the chests.
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And the King said ?I continue to dream of seven fat cows which are being eaten by seven thin ones, and seven green pods and others which are dry. O you commanders, tell me what my vision means if you are able to interpret the visions.?
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They said ?It is nothing but bad dreams; and we are not knowledgeable in the interpretation of dreams.?
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And it is not for any human being that God would speak to him, except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger to inspire whom He wills by His leave. He is Most High, Wise.
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peace Zenje,
sorry for being so authoritarian...that's the admins' job right? hail
Thank you for posting the verses.
Allow me to explain myself
Let's say you have a dream, in it you are sitting on the couch watching TV when this guy appears in front you. He says he is an angel or messenger from god, and he says that god wants you to kill all dogs in the area.
Well?
Was the message really from god?
I've seen people who see something "miraculous" in their dreams and completely change their life based on that.
So how do you know if a dream is "from god" or not? You can't know.See, either ALL dreams are from god, or none of them (there's no middle). Either way, they're all coming from our selves.
We should treat all dreams the same way, we can't ignore some because they were too ordinary and then take others as commandments because they seemed miraculous.
A dream, any dream, should be interpreted and understood, so that we can use it. Dreams shouldn't be followed or believed in. -
Peace Lobster,
sorry for being so authoritarian...that's the admins' job right?
Actually, you sounded like those imams who scream at the podium and finish with a tone of "I have spoken". PThank you for posting the verses.
No problem, dude.Allow me to explain myself
Let's say you have a dream, in it you are sitting on the couch watching TV when this guy appears in front you. He says he is an angel or messenger from god, and he says that god wants you to kill all dogs in the area.
Well?
Was the message really from god?
Nice twist, not a good example... No one's telling anyone to kill anything. Plus, we're not talking about psychosSo how do you know if a dream is "from god" or not? You can't know.
You didn't let me answer the question! ??? And ofcourse, I CAN know. You know how you (and others that will not be named) go on babbling about how one can be guided not only through the quran, but through nature, and bla bla bla?... how does one know if they are guided then? Let me guess, you'll still stick to to - "You can't know" for the sake of it, right?See, either ALL dreams are from god, or none of them (there's no middle). Either way, they're all coming from our selves.
Again, THE LOBSTER HAS SPOKEN. &We should treat all dreams the same way, we can't ignore some because they were too ordinary and then take others as commandments because they seemed miraculous.
A dream, any dream, should be interpreted and understood, so that we can use it. Dreams shouldn't be followed or believed in.
So what are you saying? temptHave you ever had an epiphany? (not while dreaming) )
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Actually, you sounded like those imams who scream at the podium and finish with a tone of "I have spoken".
I do apologize if I sound like that (I don't have to put an "IMHO" after every sentence do I?). Believe me, I'm not that sure of what I'm saying.... -
but I'm sure enough to be able to say it (and mean it).You didn't let me answer the question! Huh? And ofcourse, I CAN know. You know how you (and others that will not be named) go on babbling about how one can be guided not only through the quran, but through nature, and bla bla bla?... how does one know if they are guided then? Let me guess, you'll still stick to to - "You can't know" for the sake of it, right?
sorry.
"Babbling?" If you consider what I say nonsense then please offer your alternative. I'm all ears. Well, eyes, actually.
We KNOW things through verification. If you read something, or hear something, you put that against what you observe and know whether it's true or not.
How do you apply that to dreams?
The way I understand it, there aren't any "true" dreams or "false" dreams, I don't know how that would even work.
Okay, if you've seen in a dream what Babythespy saw, how do you know?So what are you saying?
what I just said.
You can say that god shows us dreams...but there are no "special" dreams that are sent by god. All dreams are created equal, they are meant to be interpreted and they all serve a purpose yada yada...bla bla bla bla....
This is what I think, unless you or someone else can show me otherwise, or I come to a better understanding in the future by myself.Have you ever had an epiphany? (not while dreaming)
Yes, of course. Why do you ask?
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sorry.
"Babbling?" If you consider what I say nonsense then please offer your alternative. I'm all ears. Well, eyes, actually.
Apologies, I didn't mean to say babbling, just wanted to say, 'you go on and on about..'You can say that god shows us dreams...
My question is, do you think God can contact you through a dream?Have you ever had an epiphany? (not while dreaming)
Yes, of course. Why do you ask?
Does God play a part in it at all?My only problem with what you said earlier was this; "just one thing...god doesn't speak to us through dreams." The way you portrayed it, is this is what it is. Yet I showed it otherwise through quran. And the only reason I had a problem with that is, a new member came in and shared her inner thoughts, and you negatively said something with no proof from quran. We still remember what this site is about, right? And yes, why not say IMO, especially when (a)it's contrary to what quran says, and (b) it's directed to someone relatively new who doesn't know that...
Believe me, I'm not that sure of what I'm saying.... -
but I'm sure enough to be able to say it (and mean it).Or am I just giving you a hard time? eat
Peace. peace
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Apologies, I didn't mean to say babbling, just wanted to say, 'you go on and on about..'
apology accepted. I will keep on going on about it, though.
My question is, do you think God can contact you through a dream?
We can't talk about what god can do or can't do.
Does god contact us through dreams? In the way Babythespy meant it, no.Does God play a part in it at all?
In what sense?
God plays a part through his natural laws. God doesn't influence our thinking, in our dreams or in real life.The thing is, the quran says "god guides...god punishes...god puts a seal on people's hearts" etc, but in my understanding, god doesn't directly do any of this. God doesn't guide you for no reason, god doesn't punish you for no reason, and he doesn't pick random people and puts a veil in front them
so they can't see the truth.
The quran would say that god brought me to this site and to this forum, which is another way of saying that me being here is the result of the choices I made. Cause and effect.
God interacts with us through his creation (this world), and dreams are a part of that.Do you understand what I'm trying to say, now?
And yes, why not say IMO, especially when (a)it's contrary to what quran says, and (b) it's directed to someone relatively new who doesn't know that...
Yeah I do try to do that with noobs (jk), making clear that it's my opinion, that is.
And I don't think what I said was in contradiction with the quran.
Although I'm really not too sure about these verses below (and even a few of the verses preceding them about how to split booty).
I think what they could mean is that if our belief in ourselves is strong enough, a large army will seem small to us, which would, IMO, better fit with some of the other things the quran says that god does.843 Lo! God showed them to thee in a dream as few for, had He shown them to you as many, you would surely have lost heart, and would surely have disagreed with one another about what to do. But God saved verily, He has full knowledge of what is the hearts .
844 And so, when you met in battle, He made them appear as few in your eyes -just as He made you appear as of little account in their eyes - so that God might accomplish a thing to be done for all things go back to God . -
We can't talk about what god can do or can't do.
and then you said
Does god contact us through dreams? In the way Babythespy meant it, no.In what sense?
God plays a part through his natural laws. God doesn't influence our thinking, in our dreams or in real life.hmm~ see the contradiction?
by the way, lobster, i think i understand what you're trying to say, though. Correct me if i'm wrong peace
You're saying that God's decisions reach us in many ways.. God punishs and rewards us through His creations, if He so wills it.
So you're here because of cause and effect, under God's decision/creation of this law. Hence it all goes back to God, isn't it?Is has been God all the while that caused and restrained. To God is our return group
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Peace Lobster,
Ever thought about going into sales? I think you'd be good at it. I did it for a number of years, infact sometimes I think I still do it without realising it. Or should I say politics? I like how you go around a question just to land where you wanted to be in the first place. If I didn't know better, I'd probably be bedazzled, while the question was never truly answered.
Anyways, I'm glad someone else is catching the contradictions, if you go back to my questions when I asked you what are you saying?... that's one of them. You said 2 opposite things and congratulated yourself after... I think you even believed yourself.
Does god contact us through dreams? In the way Babythespy meant it, no.
I take it to mean, in some other way, the answer is yes? ) In the way Babythespy meant it?... How do YOU know? I'll do what you do, and take the opportunity to answer that one for you... you don't. And no one else does, except Babythesy... and God. yesGod can, and does communicate to us through dreams, among many other ways. You can try and twist and turn it about in any you like, but that's the way it is. Now if you would like to show me a verse that contradicts this, please, by all means, feel free to do so. I will highly appreciate it and concede.
Or even better, if you can give quranic proof on this statement of yours...
god doesn't speak to us through dreams
It will all nicely be settled. Forgive me if I'm not coming across clearly enough, it seems I've been either using wrong words or not expressing myself well. I do hope you understand what I'm asking for though. -
peace zenje,
Ever thought about going into sales? Cheesy I think you'd be good at it. I did it for a number of years, infact sometimes I think I still do it without realising it. Or should I say politics? I like how you go around a question just to land where you wanted to be in the first place. If I didn't know better, I'd probably be bedazzled, while the question was never truly answered.
I know I'm good at it...but honestly that's not what I'm doing. I've said totally crap things on the forum before and admitted me mistakes. I'm being honest. I meant what I said. I still stick to it. I just wanted to explain to you why I think it doesn't contradict the quran.
thank you for the compliment. )Anyways, I'm glad someone else is catching the contradictions, if you go back to my questions when I asked you what are you saying?... that's one of them. You said 2 opposite things and congratulated yourself after... I think you even believed yourself.
nooo I totally did not contradict myself!
I said we can't talk about what god CAN do. Something infinite and infinitely powerful CAN do anything. But god apparently does what god does. We can take a guess at what he does, and we have to. It's just that we can argue all our lives as to what god CAN do and never come to a conclusion.
CAN god create a stone heavy enough that even he cannot lift it?I take it to mean, in some other way, the answer is yes? Roll Eyes In the way Babythespy meant it?... How do YOU know? I'll do what you do, and take the opportunity to answer that one for you... you don't. And no one else does, except Babythesy... and God
Well, just as you interpret my words one way or another, the same way I did Babythespy's words. I have to make something of what she said, and her reply to me didn't contradict that assumption.
In some other way, the answer would actually be yes. To understand what she actually meant, she'll have to explain it herself.God can, and does communicate to us through dreams, among many other ways. You can try and twist and turn it about in any you like, but that's the way it is. Now if you would like to show me a verse that contradicts this, please, by all means, feel free to do so. I will highly appreciate it and concede.
And how do you KNOW that? Is your interpretation of the Quranic verses enough? If it is, I will use evidence from the quran to explain what I was saying in my last post.
Or even better, if you can give quranic proof on this statement of yours...
I think I've explained what I said. I have also explained why I think it does not contradict the quran. If you still believe it does, and choose not to agree with me based on that, that's perfectly fine.
Now, to explain my explanation...
this is how I see it
Doesn't the quran say that god punishes wrong doers? that god guides the truthseekers and puts locks on the disbelievers' hearts? (I'm sorry i'm paraphrasing here, but you know what i'm talking about)
well, God is fair and just, right? he gives everyone a chance, right? Then how is it fair that he actually prevents people from gaining knowledge, and actually misguides them?
The thing is, god isn't doing it directly, god is the SOURCE of the laws of cause and effect that allow this to happen.
So you can say
god is not misguiding anyone, they themselves are. Which, although it may contradict the quran, is perfectly true.anyway, regardless of what the quran says, I do not think god sends us special messages through our dreams, even if god does, we can't believe in them because we can think god is telling us ANYTHING in our dreams...you might not fancy killing dogs, but I bet there's some psycho out there who does, and he's just waiting for that miraculous dream where god tells him to grab a knife and do it.
There is no verse that says "god does not speak to us through our dreams." I BELIEVE that it is implied, when we look at all the verses together, but I have no conclusive proof.
So yes, you can say that what I said contradicts the quran, and maybe it really does, too.
But I hope you understand that that one sentence doesn't really reflect my whole understanding of god and dreams. -
where do u draw the line between "directly" and indirectly" ? <the analogy below explains ur question on guidance>
Let's say a teacher told the students, "if you choose answer B, you get minus 10 marks,"
and the student asked, "why?"
the teacher said, "it is the system"
student asked, "why follow the system?"
the teacher answered "because i made it and because i say so"student choosed answer B, teacher minus 10 marks from him.
Question, WHO minus 10 marks from that student? ;D
another question, what difference does it make if it's directly or indirectly?
(unless you're a politician, then playing with words is important) ;D