Dr Zakir Naik
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Peace,
No, it isn't (at least for me). I believe that muslims having the label quranists, sunnis, shias, christians, jews, etc (in sort whoever believes in God and The Last Day while do righteous deeds as per 262) shall have no fear.
5116 AND LO! God said "O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men,
Worship me and my mother as deities beside God'?" answered "Limitless art Thou in Thy glory! It would not have been possible for me to say what I had no right to ! Had I said this, Thou wouldst indeed have known it! Thou knowest all that is within myself, whereas I know not what is in Thy Self. Verily, it is Thou alone who fully knowest all the things that are beyond the reach of a created being's perception. 5117 Nothing did I tell them beyond what Thou didst bid meWorship God, my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.' And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper' for Thou art witness unto everything.
5118 If thou cause them to suffer - verily, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them - verily, Thou alone art almighty, truly wise!"Isnt it just saying that God can do whatever he wants, and not necessarily it being an option? Not saying that it isn't, but that was my understanding from it.
Also, I thought that shirk and associating partners with God is damnation for the person? I thought that it states that God will forgive whatever sins He wants after we die, except for shirk? Although I have to honest and say that personally I feel uncomfortable with that, isnt that what it states in the quran? Also, the quran says that we have the fitrah (instinct) in monotheism.
Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of al-haneefiyyah (strict monotheism). Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by GOD. Such creation of GOD will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.
I guess its like the animals natural instinct of Allah, except that we have the will to choose to follow it or not.
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Peace,
Isnt it just saying that God can do whatever he wants, and not necessarily it being an option? Not saying that it isn't, but that was my understanding from it.
Also, I thought that shirk and associating partners with God is damnation for the person? I thought that it states that God will forgive whatever sins He wants after we die, except for shirk? Although I have to honest and say that personally I feel uncomfortable with that, isnt that what it states in the quran? Also, the quran says that we have the fitrah (instinct) in monotheism.
Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of al-haneefiyyah (strict monotheism). Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by GOD. Such creation of GOD will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.
I guess its like the animals natural instinct of Allah, except that we have the will to choose to follow it or not.
Peace amuslim,
I agree that that God may forgive whatever sins except shirk.
448 Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
What I was trying to say is God will judge fairly. If someone was born as christian and never heard about quran, nobody told him worshipping Jesus is shirk then God knows that and He will judge him fairly. Just imagine someone who was born in sunni family in rural area. He doesn't have internet. He never heard about free-minds website. Nobody told him to follow only God's hadiths and stop associating Bukhari, Abu Dawud, etc as God's partners. Then even if for us he is commiting shirk, God knows his situation and He will judge him fairly.
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Peace all,
Peace amuslim,
I agree that that God may forgive whatever sins except shirk.
448 Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
What I was trying to say is God will judge fairly. If someone was born as christian and never heard about quran, nobody told him worshipping Jesus is shirk then God knows that and He will judge him fairly. Just imagine someone who was born in sunni family in rural area. He doesn't have internet. He never heard about free-minds website. Nobody told him to follow only God's hadiths and stop associating Bukhari, Abu Dawud, etc as God's partners. Then even if for us he is commiting shirk, God knows his situation and He will judge him fairly.
As far as I know the word 'kafir' means 'rejecter', so if some never heard of any belief which called on the service to the One God and not setting up partner with Him then that person never really rejected.
Well then the ayatun comes into place of it being fitra (natural instinct) for al-haneefiyyah (monotheism). Isnt shirk itself (be it kafir or not) still unforgiveable according to Quran or is it only kafir? If it was only Kafir, then Id think it would make sense, but thats my own reasoning and it may not be the correct one. May God guide us all.
Peace
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Dr. Zakir has contributed a lot in present day for Islam. No one is perfect offcourse.
He is no sunni or of any other sect as many of you are trying to assume, he is a Muslim. A very knowldgeable person; to answer live questions in front of thousands of audience and trying to convince is no joke offcourse.
I guess he probably just, like many other knowledgeable Muslims has never heard convincing argument about the belief of Quran only.
Come on dear friend it is not that;
It is just that he is one step ahead. When some knowldgeable muslim reads HAdith and history related to Quran, he becomes irritated, he is annoyed, he just cant believe the blunders committed, so the first step he takes is reject all that stuff rightaway, which by no standards of Research, scholar articles, written history, inscripitures etc. is acceptable. Then there those stop who are more knowldgeable then many, trying to make their lives according to their wills, but then come those who take one step further and try to dig out truth from false hood, that offcourse is a difficult task a very difficult one and ZAkir NAik belongs to those.
This was also discussed with m.asadi and Fahad some times ago. -
It is just that he is one step ahead. When some knowldgeable muslim reads HAdith and history related to Quran, he becomes irritated, he is annoyed, he just cant believe the blunders committed, so the first step he takes is reject all that stuff rightaway, which by no standards of Research, scholar articles, written history, inscripitures etc. is acceptable. Then there those stop who are more knowldgeable then many, trying to make their lives according to their wills, but then come those who take one step further and try to dig out truth from false hood, that offcourse is a difficult task a very difficult one and ZAkir NAik belongs to those.
This was also discussed with m.asadi and Fahad some times ago.How does supporting the killing of apostates make Zakir Naik one step ahead?
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Jankren
How does supporting the killing of apostates make Zakir Naik one step ahead?
16106 Any one who, after accepting faith in God, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from God, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. Qur?an.
Leviticus
24.16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. As well the stranger as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.Now if you believed in History or Hadith we would have discussed it with that point of view too, but since you don't, I will end it up by saying that There are some Hadith regarding killing of apostates but when researched and read properly they donot support killing of any apostate as a general rule.
As I mentioned in previous post Zakir Naik or no one other is perfect, they base their understanding on the knowldge they pocess. You may agree or may not but the fact remains he is sinciere with his mission of preaching Islam and is better then many many others.
Zakir Naik should also read this
Noble Verse 4137 "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way."
Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah.
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Jankren
16106 Any one who, after accepting faith in God, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from God, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. Qur?an.Leviticus
24.16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. As well the stranger as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.Now if you believed in History or Hadith we would have discussed it with that point of view too, but since you don't, I will end it up by saying that There are some Hadith regarding killing of apostates but when researched and read properly they donot support killing of any apostate as a general rule.
As I mentioned in previous post Zakir Naik or no one other is perfect, they base their understanding on the knowldge they pocess. You may agree or may not but the fact remains he is sinciere with his mission of preaching Islam and is better then many many others.
Zakir Naik should also read this
Noble Verse 4137 "Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way."
Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah.
Thank you for quoting Surah Leviticus, but the verse itself states their punishment is with God. When cross-referenced with other verses that show believers have no chance of guiding others (i.e. you can bring an animal to the water, but will they drink?), it makes it clear that we are to do nothing except the usual attempted reconciliation.
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1099 And had your Lord willed, all the people on Earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?
1829 And say "The truth is from your Lord, so let whomever desires believe, and whomever desires reject." We have prepared for the wicked a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them. And if they cry out, they are given a water like boiling oil which burns their faces. What a miserable place!
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God is the One who guides and misguides. So if someone went astray by leaving Islam, shouldnt we stone God instead?
estaghfirullahi 3atheem.... how can we stone God when we cannot see Him?
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As Salaamu Alaikum
Jankren, Masha-ALLAH, I truly admire your posture of tolerance and wanting well being for all; that is truly an Islamic principle. And I don't want to seem as if I am debating some things of what you posted, in particular about becoming upset when you read what Dr. Zakir Naik said about apostacy, however I would like to make a point and offer an Islamic principle. The point is, there are two main aspects of Islam, there is the personal aspect, which includes ones creedal beliefs and the like and his individual worship; prayer, fasting, charity etc. The second aspect is the social reality. We do live amongst people and one can not just function as an individual in a society. SO ALLAH being the All Wise, HE had given us guidance in bothe aspects. Now, although what you believe and how you worship is personal, there are times when it open and reaches a social level, and at that point, if your actions or beliefs are potentially harmful to the society at large and the order thereof, then there are strict approcaches to it in order to maintain a safe running of the society. So for instance the hand of the thief gets cut, and on like this. Now, what Dr. Zakir Naik stated was not something that was his personal opinion, rather that is the Islamic Law. And its implications are societal based. Order must be maintained! And the greatest means or source of keeping order is adhering to the commands and laws of ALLAH, as an individual and as a society as a whole. So as a Muslim, and knowing that ALLAH is the All Wise, and the All Just and the All Knowing, then it should not bother you to hear what ALLAH has stated to be the law for certain action in a society.
And lastly, as it relates to quoting of Gahndi and others, then yes, these men have left us some wisdoms, and we can appreciate them and use them as they apply, but when these quotes go against other than what we find in OUR Deen, from the credal aspects or the worship then we are to refuse the other not what our Deen has established as beliefs.
Ma Salaam
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salaam all
I dont think that what he s tellin is all correct. But he is a huge sigh of relief
in an area like us, full of orthodox ground level sunnis, in considering to think
to understand what quran says instead of mere readin it. -
Peace lacdivian
salaam all
I dont think that what he s tellin is all correct. But he is a huge sigh of relief
in an area like us, full of orthodox ground level sunnis, in considering to think
to understand what quran says instead of mere readin it.What he says in his talks is a lot different from a lot of so called Muslims. However, I hear Sunnis keep on calling him a Wahhabi.
Peace
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this guy is awesome alhamdulillah...
his methodology is as follows... first he brings up a claim or he is posed with an "apparently challenging" claim and agrees with his opponent(for the moment, though it just appears to be...). he then poses doubts about the claim on the opponent through quoting authentic sources from an amazing (alhamdulillah) memory, when the opponent realizes that his own scripture contradicts what he claimed, the doubt in the opponent's mind increases and then at last Zakir naik quotes quran verses which appears as though this has never been revealed before. we see the quranic verses in a new light, supporting the position of Zakir Naik. so overall, at the end of the debate the opponent either surrenders or refuse to acknowledge the claims Dr. Zakir Naik made and throughout the debate accurately pinpointed out the errors of the opponent in logically fulfilling the original claim. and that is how alhamdulillah, Zakir Naik defends Islam and Islam gets a newfond appreciation from Muslims, atheists and critics alike and thus zakir naik ends the debate with a verse from the holy Qur'an summarizing the whole point of the debate which also happens to be a WARNING verse from quran reminding whole of humankind what the truth really is.
here is a verse from the quran(hehe, i used free-minds translation this time )
16125 Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.
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according to my judgement(it may be inaccurate) the only true quran aloner in this forum is Respected Dutchman ARNOLDYASIN
the rest of you... need to research the quran more thoroughly)
i still reject many ahadiths just because of the simple factthey contradict the quran...
remember hadiths are categorized as follows Sahih, DA'i, MAu'du respectively, Accurate, weak and fabricated(false).
allah throughout the quran urges the believers to look towards wisdom and knowledge and common sense. remember did allah say in the quran "those who take other sources beside quran to be word of God are mushriq?? think before you label sunnis" "shias" and other people kafiirs...
although i do agree that "sunni" "shia" is just a label society put on our selves, true believers are those hold firm to the word of Allah and do not divide amongst themselves, so sectarianism is AGAINST islam.
in other words i agree with the quran alone approach but i disagree with a lot of interpretations, remember words of the prophet(PBUH) is wisdom, it is NOT equivalent to the word of Allah, and Allah has Granted Mohammed(PBUH)wisdom.
may peace and mercy of Allah be on all the respected truth seekers and truth followers, Rifat
